Airline, Airport and Route Advertising

[Aviador]

Manchester airports is doing a big advertising campaign over in Yorkshire at the moment with advertisements on both 96.3 Aire and Heart Yorkshire.

 

[Aviador]

I've noticed a fair bit of advertising for the new flights to China from Manchester airport particularly on various media websites.

 

[User001]

MAN and Hainan are really trying to get the route noticed.

Hainan are sponsoring the Manchester Chinese New Year celebrations, and the 'Manchester China Forum' meetings to the point Hainan have stationed cabin crew in Manchester to promote, as well as trailing the new business class seat in Manchester.

Must be working, as the route has already been upgraded to the larger A330-300. Unfortunately Hainan can't increase Manchester until at least November as Air China and Beijing Capital hold the last of the available slots in the current bilateral, which is due to be updated again in November.

 

[Dobbo]

Hi User - I'm not sure I inderstand the term slots in this context (although I assume it does not relate to landing and takeoff slots at MAN?) Does this mean that Hainan can buy slots from either Air China or Beijing Capital before any revision of the bilateral? And could those slots be used to serve other UK airports?

Cheers.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

The UK-China bilateral is an agreement reached between the respective governments to determine the level of service permitted by carriers between the two countries. It is then the preserve of each government to allocate their share of the agreed frequencies between their own approved carriers. Rights cannot be bought or sold. As you say, runway slots allocated at an airport such as MAN or LHR are completely unrelated to this. An operator such as Hainan Airlines could easily secure seven airport slot-pairs to go daily from MAN (although PEK is more congested), but securing permitted frequencies under the bilateral is a different matter.

Government aviation authorities will generally not interfere with the decisions of the partner country, but designated carriers must conform to required safety standards. We have previously seen service suspensions affecting carriers serving UK-Iraq and UK-Iran in this regard. UK-China services are most unlikely to fall short in this way.

Under the UK-China bilateral agreed in 2011, both countries hold 31 slot pairs for allocation between their own carriers. These can be used by designated carriers between six airports in China and designated airports in the UK. In September 2014, agreement was reached to increase this to 40 slot pairs for use by each country between nine airports in China and designated airports in the UK. I can't find reference to when the upgrade takes effect (or whether it already has), but perhaps User001's November 2016 date is the answer we're looking for. At present Air China is understood to hold bilateral rights for (four?) weekly return flights between MAN and PVG (Shanghai) but that does not guarantee that they will be used. They may launch scheduled services, but some airlines sit on unused bilateral rights for years with no intention of putting them to use.

I'm personally optimistic that Air China will eventually put its MAN-PVG rights to use, but there are no guarantees. They sat on MAN-PEK rights for years.

Note that UK-Hong Kong services are managed under a separate agreement from the mainland China bilateral.

 

[Land23R]

A good point egcc about airlines sitting on bilateral rights which therefore remain unused.

A couple of points occur: It may give cause for some optimism if Air China has applied for slots. Do we know if they have and if so, days and times of those slots?

I was also under the impression that China has a policy of 1 airline for 1 route. Presumably, that would prevent Hainan for example applying to operate MAN-PVG, even if slot pairs under the bilateral were available, as Air China has the rights.

 

[Dobbo]

Thanks both - understood!

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Further to the China bilateral comments above, I seem to recall an amendment to the agreement announced around the time of President Xi's visit under which both countries agreed an additional pool of frequencies which could only be used between China and UK regional airports. IIRC, twelve additional frequencies are permitted for allocation to the designated carriers of each country, but with the proviso that these can only be used for non London-originating services. They are designated for use from the UK regions only. A report in 'routesonline' dated 27-11-2015 confirmed that Air China had been allocated four frequencies for use on MAN-PVG. Note that this is not a guarantee of a new service but it does mean that the necessary permissions are in place. It is likely that all twelve frequencies allocated to Chinese carriers will be put to use, though remember that airports such as BHX and EDI/GLA are in the running for some of these. The UK allocation is a tougher call. British Airways and Virgin may well be uninterested in running orphan regional long-hauls which don't fit their strategy. Thomas Cook and Thomson could eventually be tempted to run a programme of leisure-orientated long-hauls to China.

 

[User001]

I see that the councils in Birmingham invited MAN down to set up a stall and promote the new Hainan flights as part of the CNY celebration. Note they were invited, and not the other way round asking to take part.

Bit odd considering BHX is really pushing to get Beijing Capital online.

 

[Aviador]

Not really, if you're chasing business it doesn't matter how or where it's coming from just so long as it's coming.

 

[User001]

What I meant Aviador was that it's unusual to see someone like Birmingham city council INVITE down MAN to take part in the CNY celebrations, given the push for BHX China flights.

It's one thing 'invading your neighbours back yard' with adverts and such, and happens all the time given the ruthlessness of business, it was more of a comment that it's unusual to see, what is effectively a competitor, invited to advertise the Beijing route.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for promoting the flights, but, given the fuss that was kicked up by some an the B'ham area, including politicians, that MAN 'stole' the BHX flight, it just seemed quite a stark 'about turn'.

 

[Land23R]

EGCC_MAN

Re the China bilaterals, can you just confirm that the additional 12 frequencies for UK regional airports are 12 weekly departures and 12 arrivals each for UK and Chinese carriers. i.e.24 slot pairs in total.

Secondly, do the Hainan slots for the 4 x weekly MAN-PEK service come out of that allocation or were they agreed prior to the amendment?

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Yes, that was my understanding. Each frequency on the bilateral represents a weekly return flight. I'm not 100% certain about the 12 each as I can't find the original article I read, but that is the number which sticks in the mind. Meanwhile, those original allocations on the bilateral can be used from any designated UK airport - London or regional - so the regional airports could in theory end up with more than twelve Chinese flights per week in total. However, the majority of those permitted for London (upto 40 per week?) will be used from there.

On the second question, I would speculate that it would best suit the Chinese to use designated regional slots for Hainan Airlines since they have them to use. If those slots were allocated prior to the change, there should be nothing to stop the Chinese issuing more London slots anyway provided that the overall totals are honoured, ie. that total London frequencies don't exceed the agreed maximum number of 40 frequencies per week before the protected regional-use slots are taken into consideration.

If you locate the original article detailing those regional changes do let me know because I have been searching for it without success. Hence that 12 each number is taken from memory, so I would like to confirm it.

Just a bit of pure hypothetical speculation from me further to the above. If MAN ended up with daily PEK and daily PVG operated by Chinese carriers, then an operator expressed a wish to operate MAN - Guangzhou, BHX-PEK and EDI/GLA-PEK, I suspect that the UK authorities would willingly adjust the bilateral to accommodate and make this possible. Chinese links to the UK regions are valuable to us too, arguably more so than protecting a notional parity for British carriers which don't want to know (BA?). I think we're now in a climate where if offered a new China schedule from GLA/BHX/MAN/EDI, UK politicians would be more minded to ask how many extra slots they needed rather than taking a protectionist line. Those UK regions would benefit to a far greater extent than a London-based airline would lose out.

 

[ethanegcc]

Tomorrow will mark the third operation of the 5th weekly Saudia flight. Is anyone able to share how Saudia is actually doing on these flights or the LFs?

As we have seen above as per routesonline, the 5th weekly service will be maintained after Oct 30th, is there possible further growth or a Riyadh launch?

In addition to this, The UK Saudia site has it's headline ad as below:

 

[ethanegcc]

And, Saudia is advertising connections on it's extensive network to Delhi and Male on it's website, along with another ad of 5 weekly MAN-JED flights. All this on SVs UK homepage, with only 1 mention of LHR!

 

[ethanegcc]

With a scroll, you will also see a further add about the 5 weekly MAN-JED flights and two ads promoting onward SV connections with Delhi and Male. All of this on SV's UK Homepage with only 1 mention of LHR. It is nice to see an airline as committed to the regions as they are to London. Well done Saudia!
View attachment 3923

 

[EGCC_MAN]

September 2016 has seen the annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage, so traffic on the Saudi Arabia routes is at its peak right now. Numbers should be excellent. It will be more instructive to note how loadings fare once the pilgrimage season is over for another year.

Some of those connecting fares look interesting. I must check whether they can be used without applying for a Saudi visa.

 

[ethanegcc]

September 2016 has seen the annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage, so traffic on the Saudi Arabia routes is at its peak right now. Numbers should be excellent. It will be more instructive to note how loadings fare once the pilgrimage season is over for another year.

Some of those connecting fares look interesting. I must check whether they can be used without applying for a Saudi visa.

I think they can, as long as they are under 18 hours or 8 hours if not a Saudia flight. I tried researching it, they don't make it terribly clear but there is a good transfer facility in JED after some online research including a lounge type room for all transit passengers to make use of. It appears that you simply go to the 'International Customer Transfer desk', show your passport and as long as there are no Israeli stamps there, you will be issued with a transfer card. I don't think Saudi visas are required to make connections.

An interesting review is on a blog named 'onemileatatime' and although it says lounge it, in fact, shows the transfer experience too. JED is obviously quite old in terms of infrastructure and the comments show an awful lot of hate comments about Saudi Arabia but a new airport is being built. Ironically the blogger was also travelling on SV123 so I will include that link as well!

Transfer review: http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2016/08/12/saudia-lounge-jeddah-airport-review/ The boarding system does look slightly chaotic but then again most airports are like this.

Flight review (bear in mind this is a frequent biz class traveller who has flown on the top airlines so a bit pedantic compared to the rest of us, as internet trip reports tend to be)http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2016/08/02/saudia-787-business-class/

The interior looks very nice.

 

[Aviador]

Hi guys...introducing the thread for Airline, Airport and Route Advertising. The BHX equivalent is especially good if you want to see how theirs works.

http://www.forums4airports.com/threads/3145/page-6

 

[ethanegcc]

Hi guys...introducing the thread for Airline, Airport and Route Advertising. The BHX equivalent is especially good if you want to see how theirs works.

http://www.forums4airports.com/threads/3145/page-6

Yes, I have wondered why MAN haven't got one...but now we have! Great! And we have some great advertising from SV to kick it off!

Perhaps my recent post with ads on in the SQ thread can be moved to here?