Beijing Capital Airlines

[Aviador]

Hmm, the more I think about this the more underwhelmed I am.

I'm also not convinced about them trying to pass Hangzhou off as Shanghai.

It'll be good to see though and will give the airport some great publicity

According to Wikipedia Hangzhou Airport handles 28,354,435 passengers annually, that doesn't sound like a city to be snubbed. Hangzhou isn't Shanghai no, but it is an important city to establish links with. If flights are occupied by Chinese tourists initially it doesn't matter. Flights to Spain started in the 1960's with a only couple of flights a week from mainly Luton and look what we have today.

 

[Brum X]

2 things I would say in response....

1 - China is a nation of over 1 billion people and growing. Of the 100 largest cities in the world, an amazing 26 of them are located in China! Even in the worst case scenario that HNA are "route blocking" as it were, there would be plenty of other options in terms of locations and airlines BHX could approach.

2 - The scenario you paint could happen on any route, but at the end of the day, money is what makes the world go round. If there is a market out of BHX (and I'm sure there is) airlines well explore and exploit that market.

Aviation is a very temperamental and changes all the time. the MEB3 have changed aviation beyond what anyone imagined. We now have Turkish growing, and some say that with the lifting of sanctions in Iran, they too have the potential to be a world player is they so wish! Will the world go back to a Hub-and-spoke approach or with new airlines/plane continue 'bust the hubs' ...who knows! that is far into the future, as are your scenarios Ray!

As many other have said, I am jus happy that we have what many other airports don't. I have faith that BHX have this is hand! They wouldn't have gone to all the effort to get the airline in without a strategy of the next step I assume!

Just reading your posts today woody have made me feel positive, you talk a lot of sense.

Yeah i agree, BHX has what loads of airports are just craving. EDI were strongly rumoured to maybe get a regular connection to China but as it stands at the moment there are no flights planned even with the scottish government ploughing in all there resources to get one. The thing that sticks out the most for me is that now for the last 3 years the route has got a longer season every year and that has got to be a big positive, it shows that airlines are at least interested in BHX, maybe not now for the full on year round link, but the interest is there.

 

[Brum X]

I think it died a death because I had a rant with another forumer from another airport up north. That's my fault. Wont do it again.

Back on topic

You may have a point with regards the BHX-PEK route, however china doesn't end at Beijing so there are plenty more China destinations for BHX to get its teeth into over the coming years. However I do understand all your concerns about Beijing capital airlines. I emailed BHX yesterday to ask how do people book on these new scheduled flights ?? Im awaiting for a reply.

Just had my reply back from BHX:Hi Alan, they will be scheduled flights, as soon as booking becomes available I'll let you know. Thanks

 

[hammerb32]

Birmingham Post reporting the flights have been pulled.

 

[Ray Finkle]

From the Post

Chief executive Paul Kehoe said: "There is strong demand for flights between China and the Midlands.

"Last year, around 150,000 people flew between our region and China and we have made significant investment over the last two years to offer services with Caissa.

"We are currently unaware as to the reasons why, given the success of the China services over the last two summers from Birmingham.

"We are awaiting more information from the tour operator as to why it has made this decision but we are confident we will be able to reinstate services between Birmingham and China in the near future."

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/bus...t-scheduled-flights-china-birmingham-11363607

To be honest I'm not surprised and long term in may not actually be a bad thing. Something about this set up just didn't sit right with me.

 

[User001]

I'm not saying this to start up a MAN vs BHX debate, this is a genuine question... Do with think it's to do with the Hainan flights up at Manchester?

It's well known Caissa and HNA are intertwined. It could be that rather than getting all the tours into 1 weekly flight from each destination for the peak summer, they can be filtered all year via the 4 weekly PEK flights?

I would have hoped that there was enough room for 5 weekly Beijing from the UK, but, it does seem something has gone wrong here.

I don't believe it's down to BCA, as they are successfully operating CPH and MAD as far as I know, and have applied to serve other points also.

It's going to be interesting to see what has transpired here, and any implications that may come from it?

 

[Butty]

I wonder how sales were going? We're they undermining other sales? These things happen. I agree with Ray, long term probably for the better.

 

[Brum X]

Oh dear, this looks like it will be one of those Ups and Downs. I would like to know what has happened and im sure we will know the reason very soon. The team at BHX are not shy of making comments.

And yes Ray, you did have a little gut feeling in your stomarch, i remember when you made the post not long after the announcement.

Maybe Caissa want to put all there effort into Hainan at MAN, cant blame them for that. Its just a shame they didnt know that at the time. This does make BHX look a bit red faced in my opinion after all the fanfare of having Beijing and Shanghai.

Im not going to be down beat about this though, this summer still looks like it will be a good one for the airport with record passengers, however not having these flights will put a dent in our final figure for 2016.

 

[Paulsstrange]

How can PK be confident we will see flights to China in the 'near future' when this airline has just pulled out all of a sudden, unless there is a plan B then can't see anything for a while in fact these being pulled will lower confidence with others... !!

 

[User001]

The only bad thing now is, bad feeling or not, there will be no China flights this year.

It seems like this is a Caissa issue and not the airline, as it says the tour operator has pulled the flights, not BCA.

After all the work done with Caissa in the past 2 years, and, what seemed a good relationship, does this mean the hard work has been undone?

I know this sounds all doom and gloom, but, charters are very different to scheduled flights, as charters make their money for the airline regardless as its paid up front. Im just not sure where this leave BHX now, as it will now be about appealing to the airlines direct, and, that's a different proposition all together. With Caissa, the work was pretty much done in one single transaction.

I'm genuinely disappointed at this news, as, Chinese links growing all over the UK was only a good thing. Demand and success stimulates further demand.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I don't believe they ever went on sale, BHX quoted 'before the end of May'.

I think Caissa are selling the tours on the new MAN flights and see no reason to open up yet another point, especially at 1x weekly. After all they are 'tours' and visit various parts of the country, so the arrival airport really is irrelevant.

As said the whole thing just didn't sit right with me, the desperation to get the word 'scheduled' in there, even though it was effectively a charter programme seemed very odd. Whilst, from a spotter perspective, it would have been nice to see I won't lose any sleep over it.

Hopefully they can go back to the drawing board and try to get a 'proper' service in, one that is useful for tourists and businesses alike. If that takes a few years then so be it, we have plenty more options going east than we used to.

 

[Brummiegem]

I am not sure whether this is irony or not,but I couldn't help but notice an advert in today's Birmingham Mail for flights to Beijing with Hainan from MAN.
I have spoken before about the Mails travel club offering deals which include flights from elsewhere,and possibly not promoting BHX flights better.However I also understand that they go for the best deals available,so if that is from somewhere else then I guess we have to accept it.
It would be interesting to know the reason behind this decision,but in the long term I won't be too disheartened.I think a China link will happen,especially when you see the business links between The Midlands and the Far East.Dissappointing for sure but 2016 will still be a record year so we have lots to look forward to.

 

[Brummiegem]

A quick question.
Are there still slots available under the current air service agreement?
Would it still be possible to get a service up and running within 6 to 12 months?

 

[Kevin Farnell]

I'm not saying this to start up a MAN vs BHX debate, this is a genuine question... Do with think it's to do with the Hainan flights up at Manchester?

I think it could well be, as in the posts following User001's.
My first thought, was how did it get this far only to be pulled. Then another thought struck me. Manchester Airport had a big presentation in Birmingham to promote their flights. The Birmingham flights were announced almost simultaneously.
Did Birmingham Airport/Caissa feel under pressure from the Manchester Airport presentation and announce the flights before all the details had been finalised?

Kevin

 

[User001]

I'm not sure about the Hainan MAN adverts.

On one hand, no, it wouldn't have helped matters.

Would it have impacted the BHX routes in such an adverse way to get the route cut, no, I don't think so.

The BHX flights were primarily aimed at inbound tourism. Outbound was just the icing on the cake. The MAN adverts have been focuses on outbound traffic, something that if the routes had done well, BHX wouldn't have had ample capacity to provide.

 

[Ray Finkle]

The Mail will most likely give ads to whoever pays the most. They may well even use a third party company to do it for them.

One thing that both BHX and BCA weren't happy with were the flight timings. They'd tried to get them changed but were unsuccessful with the Chinese authorities.

A quick question.
Are there still slots available under the current air service agreement?
Would it still be possible to get a service up and running within 6 to 12 months?

It's a very good question.

Was the route formally approved and if so do Beijing Capital (and by default HNA) now own the rights to BHX-PEK, effectively blocking any other interest? If so then what is the time limit for those slots to be used before they can become available again?

The CAAC is complicated enough at the best of times.

 

[jfy1999]

To be honest, it doesn't seem like much of a loss because the whole thing looked like it was very hastily arranged compared to before, with some poor timings, and might have suffered due to the MAN flights. I was actually more disappointed when we lost VLM as they were already established with two important niche routes. For an airport of BHX's size flights to Beijing are more of a bonus than an essential.

It's a much bigger loss for me on a personal level though, as I'd already planned a visit to BHX with friends to see the first flight.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

Sounds to me like HCA want to "pump-prime" the Manchester service rather than dilute demand.

 

[Butty]

Whilst I welcomed the news on the flights, I had doubts. We were lined up with Hainan, then the government, Osbourne in particular, grovel to the Chinese, Manchester is suddenly announced, with am I right to recall, a £12 million grant of some sort, and bang BHX misses out. After a lengthy struggle we get Hainan tiny subsidiary, and now this. I suspect we were treated as pawns in an unsavoury game of chess by the MP for Tatton. Politics for you.

Hainan want to concentrate on MAN. You cannot blame them, and they know they have the highest level support in government to do so.

I really wish Manchester well with the flights and every success. Prosper.

Now let's focus on some national carriers on first rate routes that the nation can share in. KRO.

 

[User001]

Just to clear a few myths.

-Hainan had been talking to Manchester for 3 years. They were due to launch last year but decided to focus on the BHX charters instead, hence MAN had to wait till this year for the flights to begin.

-There was no £12m subsidy paid to get the Hainan flights, even Paul Kehoe has now admitted that. The £12m subsidy was a generic visit Britain scheme for the whole of the North of England, from MAN up to NCL and everywhere in between. Birmingham has been recipient of similar grants, including the latest one with Turkish Airlines.

-Hainan were happy to launch MAN regardless of the Govt. like I say, talks had been going on for years, the fact it was announced during the Chinese PM's visit was just a pure piece of PR genius for Hainan and MAN.

I do think we need to dispel this myth that some underhand forces were at play regarding the MAN flights, there really wasn't. The China flights to MAN were procured in the same way any new route gets signed up, it's just this one was higher profile, and had higher stakes for UK regional airports.