The Continuing Saga of Brexit...

[Aviador]

The likes of Mr Dyson used to make his vacuum cleaners here in the UK but he moved the production out out the UK and Europe to Asia a few years back. He now only sends the parts to the UK to be assembled. I would question Mr Dyson's motive for his decision to back the leave camp. I don't know a great deal about the other two to comment. As for the remain camp, the list of backers was considerably longer with prominent business leaders including the likes or Lord Sugar and Sir Richard Branson among others (many).

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I mentioned these people as examples of people in the Leave camp who are not brain dead. What their motives are is another matter but I doubt that many would regard them as dunces.

It's true that the Dyson manufacturing operation moved from Wiltshire in the early years of this century with a loss of about 800 jobs but since then the research an development base in Wiltshire has mushroomed in growth with nearly 2,000 workers.

Peter Hargreaves and James Dyson are multi billionaires. Dyson has a dedicated hangar at Bristol Airport for his private aircraft. Hargreaves still lives in the West Country just outside Bristol unlike his former company's co-founder Steven Lansdown who resides in Guernsey. Lansdown is 'only' a billionaire having invested a huge amount of money into Bristol sport. He owns Bristol City FC and Bristol Rugby Club amongst a number of local sporting teams, clubs and individuals that he supports.

The comment was in response to a recent post that suggested that those who voted Leave as a protest were brain dead. Some of these voters probably aren't the brightest buttons on the coat it is true (and not all Remain supporters and voters are necessarily intellectual giants either).

 

[David_itl]

Shall we try reading my comment again? The braindead are those who now wish to change their vote as all they thought they were doing was protesting against the government whereas the reality has dawned on them as to what they helped do when they didnt want to exit the EU. I would expect business leaders to be FAR more intelligent than to engage in such stupid activities

 

[flymetothemoon]

I have this feeling that the longer the decision to invoke Article 50 (Cameron himself said
it could be months) takes the less likely it is that it will happen at all

 

[Aviador]

It would seem that there are large numbers of Leave voters who voted as a protest not believing that their vote actually really counted.

I have never doubted many of the concerns people had with the EU but I also feel the referendum was extremely unfair in that it didn't let people say they wanted change.

Basically a cross in the Remain box meant you were completely happy with the EU as it was. A cross in the other box meant you wanted to end the 43 year partnership, but clearly many also thought a cross in the Leave box also meant you were protesting against the government.

I've said already in this thread, the poll has highlighted deep divisions in our country. Many of us including many of us on here knew these divisions existed beforehand but the politicians refused to believe it.

We are a divided nation in tatters. From my perspective, although the vote was narrowly won by the Leave campaign, I do believe the only way forward is through a general election. All the parties can come forward and put their cards firmly on the table. A reformed EU or out of the EU etc.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I had a chat with my (her) extended family last night, all of which voted to leave. When I asked why the reply was "because the government haven't listened to us and have broken too many promises". Now it has come to light that the leave party were lying through their teeth, some of them are regretting their decision.

I do believe the only way forward is through a general election. All the parties can come forward and put their cards firmly on the table. A reformed EU or out of the EU etc.

I'd agree with that and hope that it happens sooner rather than later. The longer the uncertainty goes on the worse it will be.

 

[Aviador]

John Llewellyn former OECD chief economist, (click to enlarge)

 

[Ray Finkle]

No political leader is currently able to take any serious policy initiative.

This is what worries me, we need them now more than ever.

The article below titled Britain’s Democratic Failure makes for an interesting read.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...atic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06

 

[Ray Finkle]

On to backbench questions, and Tory Ken Clarke - who backed Remain - says it is MPs' duty to act in the national interest and says they should not take "broad guidance" from "a plebiscite which has produced a small majority on a broad question after a bad tempered and ill-informed debate".

 

[Aviador]

The last remain credit rating agency has stripped the UK of its AAA rating.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I noticed that Boris and Gove skipped parliament today. Weasels!!!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Brussels rejects Boris Johnson 'pipe dream' over single market access

European diplomats have dismissed claims from Boris Johnson that the UK could negotiate access to the EU single market without obeying any of the rules.

“You cannot have your cake and eat it,” said an EU diplomat, echoing a phrase the former mayor of London used during the campaign and which looks set to come back to haunt him.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...am-over-single-market-access?CMP=share_btn_tw

One paragraph stood out to me:

“If they treat their referendum as a non-event, we will also treat their referendum as a non-event,” an EU diplomat said.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Hodgson has added to the list of prominent resignations after an England performance that defies any advective. Pathetic, inept, useless don't come near to describing how bad the England team was. At least it will give the papers
something else to talk about tomorrow.

 

[Aviador]

I left the referendum poll live so people could change their vote as and when on the run up to the referendum. Hardly scientific with only 22 people taking part here but it's been interesting watching it creep back towards remain over the last week since Brexit from what was originally an overwhelming clear lead for Leave. Whatever people voted for some people prefer to keep that private and I'm totally fine with that but if anybody would like to share their opinion as to why they changed their mind it would be really interesting.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Sir Richard Branson was on TV this morning calling for a second vote as the public didn't realise what a mess a 'protest vote' would leave. As he said "the facts were inaccurate" and "we are heading for disaster". "In business when you make a bad decision, you change it. The 17 million who voted leave could still do so again if they wished". He also stated that he's lost a third of his value and has had to cancel a deal for 3000 new jobs.

I think that Google showing searches such as 'what is the EU' and 'what is Brexit' were up 250% after the polling had closed says it all.

It was said that going back on this referendum would be political suicide, since that seems to be happening on both sides at the moment could 'whether to invoke article 50' be put to the House of Commons?

If 48% of those that voted are currently pee'd off (and very worried), would it make such a huge difference if it raised slightly to 52% of voters pee'd off. That's before the so called Bregreter's who are now desperately wishing they'd either voted remain or not voted at all, I've met four of them today.

By the way, opinion polls show that already a net total of 1.1 million Britons would change their vote if they could! It was 400,000 on Saturday! It's obvious so see which way public opinion is going!

 

[Ray Finkle]

if anybody would like to share their opinion as to why they changed their mind it would be really interesting

I (think) I was the only one to vote 'Don't know'. I always swung towards remain but with this being such a huge decision I wanted to keep an open mind and be as informed as possible, to hopefully make the right decision. I don't think it's an over estimation to say that this was a vote for my children as much as it was for me.

I left it until the last minute to decide 100% and stayed with remain, as I thought I would.

I've changed my vote here to reflect my actual vote.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I think somebody earlier in this thread alluded to more Chinese investment?

“I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made,” Branson told the Guardian.

He said his opinion that leaving the EU would damage investment in Britain was shared by “every single person I’ve met from overseas”.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...investors-pulling-out-of-uk-after-brexit-vote

 

[Aviador]

I wonder if this could have an effect on the Manchester Airport City Chinese Investment?

EU Ref what’s next: Brexit puts social cohesion at risk – abroad, at home and locally
by Professor Michael Parkinson is University of Liverpool

The nation has voted and its decision must be respected. But the consequences are enormous and frankly ominous. These feel like dangerous times – politically, economically, socially and culturally. The centre has not held. Globalisation and its discontents which have been present across the land but partly hidden are now fully exposed. Regret and blame are the dominant emotions today. Uncertainty if not fear now stalks the land – much more than before when project fear was alleged. The risks to social cohesion and solidarity abroad, at home and in our city region are real.

Read the full article: https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/28/eu-ref-brexit-puts-social-cohesion-risk-abroad-home-locally/

 

[Ray Finkle]

Vodafone, Visa, Toyota, Honda, Chinese Businesses all now seriously considering moving their operations and/or investments out of the UK, it's only been two working days!

Barely a week ago we were hearing how companies such as these were planning investment and creating jobs.

This isn't 'project fear', it's the reality of the situation we've gotten ourselves into!!!

But yeah, we've taken back control and got our country back!

 

[User001]

We won't be leaving the EU.

The only slight glimmer of hope for the leave campaign triggering article 50 was Boris Johnson being PM.

Now he has ruled himself out of the running, the leave campaign only has Micheal Gove and he is forgettable at best. The only other prominent leave campaigner was Nigel fromage, and he is not popular.

We're staying in Europe guys, I'm quite confident of it. The leave guys won't like it, but, it's fell apart for them.