The Continuing Saga of Brexit...

[lbaspotter]

Sadly I wont be here for the in-out EU referendum vote next Thursday and also missed the cut of date to do it via postal vote due to booking a holiday last week which we depart next Wednesday. But I've now manged to get a friend whom will do it by proxy for me.
To be honest right up until about 2 weeks ago I was totally undecided which way i was going to vote. But now the more I think about things and the more I hear about stuff from our so called politicians its actually persuaded me to think we are better of remaining part of the European Union...

 

[Aviador]

You're probably better off out of the country enjoying yourself!

My parents are both voting for Brexit. They blame the EU for the Yorkshire Bank closing down on the local high street.

As you know I have made no effort to hide my preference which is REMAIN in Europe. Everything talked about by the various politicians is hypothetical whichever side of the fence you sit on but the way I see it is, if you are happy with your life as it is then why risk BREXIT in hope for something that might not be better, but could be worse.

 

[Brum X]

My parents are the same and they simply cannot see the bigger picture and we have had words. They are retired so if the economy goes BUMP, they will still be ok. Younger people looking for jobs though may not be so fortunate.

 

[Aviador]

My parents are the same and they simply cannot see the bigger picture and we have had words. They are retired so if the economy goes BUMP, they will still be ok. Younger people looking for jobs though may not be so fortunate.

My parents are retired and we have exchanged words too. Maybe a little harsh but I've basically said to them that in the medium to longer term they will not have to live through the fallout of leaving the EU.

 

[Brum X]

This guy talks alot of sense.
http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/#ivote

 

[Ashley.S.]

Martin Lewis usually talks a lot of sense

 

[Aviador]

Similar to my question in the "if a general election was held today" poll, has your opinion on whether the UK should be in or out of Europe changed over the course of the campaign? You can change your poll vote here if you wish to reflect your view today.

 

[Aviador]

Bare with me... this is 20 minutes long but it's interesting whether you're thinking of voting LEAVE or REMAIN on Thursday.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I've listened to the video and clearly the man is an expert on European constitutional law and I suspect that none of us is in a position to challenge what he says in terms of the legal issues. For example, he says that the UK is a sovereign state and its parliament is responsible for the law of the land, whereas the EU is not a sovereign state (although it seems to want to act increasingly as if it is - my italics).

The relevant bit came when he elaborated and conceded that the UK (and of course all other member states) has had to cede some powers to the EU as part of the price of being in the EU club. Some people see that as a partial loss of sovereignty but in a strictly legal sense it not. What is it though is a handing over of some powers to the EU.

Reading some recent posts in this thread it seems to me that there is a feeling that we should go with the devil we know (it may not be a devil at all to some of course) rather than risk joining forces with a new devil that might be worse.

There are some interesting comments about older people voting who may not live long enough to see the consequences - that state of affairs would include me. I made the point before that older people have lived in the UK both inside and outside the EU. There was an equally divisive debate over 40 years ago when the nation voted whether to join or remain outside the Common Market. Some who voted to join then are by definition the older generation now and may well be amongst those now wishing to leave, and vice versa.

If Brexit prevails it might be that in 10,20, 30 years time the majority of the British public will be delighted that it did. If we remain in the EU those who want to leave might, as events unfold going forward, reflect in the same time period that they were wrong and be glad we stayed in.

That's the point. No-one knows. So until the reliable sage Hindsight pontificates in 10, 20,30 years hence, no-one will.

I'm relaxed about the vote whichever way it goes. I might only live a few more years but I'm conscious that I have two generations of immediate family who, I hope, will be around for a long time and I take very seriously their future when it comes to deciding where I will put by X on Thursday.

 

[Brum X]

Well the time is nearly here folks to put that important X

TBH i will be glad when we know the result on Friday morning, its feels like this has been going on for years and years.

 

[Aviador]

I agree.

I do fear that our democratic right to vote isn't sensible though as so many people are quoting such ridiculous comments on Facebook.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

My wife and I were at a dining table with six others recently (three couples) - everyone at least in their 60s, mainly retired people - and the talk got around to the EU referendum. Six of the eight were steadfast in their views that we should remain in the EU. I was one of the exceptions but partly so I could act as a devil's advocate to test their arguments. It would have been a very dull discussion if everyone had agreed on the issue.

It's only a tiny piece of anecdotal 'evidence' but does show that not all older people want to leave.

 

[Aviador]

My daughter had her sixth birthday a couple of weeks back and we had a few family friends around. Needless and unfortunate to say it didn't take long for before the EU debate raised it's ugly head.

What surprises me time and time again is the number of people who only seem to consider immigration as the reason for their decision. I have to admit I do worry about the flow of new people coming to the UK but the statistics point towards a sizable number of non-EU migrants too. There is nothing to suggest those coming to our shores as illegal immigrants will cease after a Brexit.

We were split 50/40 in favour of Brexit with the remainder 10 saying nothing either way.

I am sure nobody wants the UK to fail but at the same time, I do feel ALL the politicians have told many untruths during the run-up to the election. It is a shame both sides of the argument couldn't come up with a joint fact sheet providing clear and concise information supported by verified actual facts and figures. Instead we've had the various claims and counterclaim. I have done my homework and checked that statements coming from both sides using various non political websites. The flyers that come through my door go straight in the bin. I do wonder whether the electorate will actually be able to make a fully informed decision. I fear not.

 

[Aviador]

US-based comedian John Oliver's take on Brexit.

 

[User001]

I think as long as Nigel Farrage gets airtime, we should be safely in remain territory.

He is unwittingly doing a great jobs for the stay camp!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

My daughter had her sixth birthday a couple of weeks back and we had a few family friends around. Needless and unfortunate to say it didn't take long for before the EU debate raised it's ugly head.

What surprises me time and time again is the number of people who only seem to consider immigration as the reason for their decision. I have to admit I do worry about the flow of new people coming to the UK but the statistics point towards a sizable number of non-EU migrants too. There is nothing to suggest those coming to our shores as illegal immigrants will cease after a Brexit.

We were split 50/40 in favour of Brexit with the remainder 10 saying nothing either way.

I am sure nobody wants the UK to fail but at the same time, I do feel ALL the politicians have told many untruths during the run-up to the election. It is a shame both sides of the argument couldn't come up with a joint fact sheet providing clear and concise information supported by verified actual facts and figures. Instead we've had the various claims and counterclaim. I have done my homework and checked that statements coming from both sides using various non political websites. The flyers that come through my door go straight in the bin. I do wonder whether the electorate will actually be able to make a fully informed decision. I fear not.

It is a pity that the news media place so much emphasis on the immigration issue. Apart from a relative minority of xenophobes I believe that the majority of people who support the Leave campaign are not against immigration per se. Indeed, without immigrants our increasingly elderly population (the trend will gather momentum in the coming years) would be unable to provide enough workers. What many Leave people want is controlled immigration where the UK decides who it wants based on what immigrants have to offer in terms of work and life skills (there will always be genuine refugees and asylum seekers who might not meet these criteria who will quite properly be admitted on humanitarian grounds). As it is any EU citizen has an implied right of entry, abode and employment in the UK.

Another issue is the fact that the UK's courts no longer have the final say on many legal issues as so many are bound up with the EU where the European Court of Justice is the final arbiter.

Also factor in the concern that many in the EU, including some of the major states, appear intent on moving ever closer to a Federal Europe. Since we joined what was a Common Market the group of states in what was once an exclusive club (de Gaulle would not allow the UK to join and we did so only after his death) has moved far beyond the original concept and has opened its membership to more and more states to the extent that many see it now as too unwieldy to operate successfully.

There are other issues but I've highlighted these to try to show that an objection to Johnny Foreigner in Blighty is not what drives many in the Leave camp.

 

[Brum X]

As a proud Brummie who supports Britain staying in the EU, i know this will be hard for some Brexitiers to stomarch but im happy that some laws and decisions are/have been made in Brussels rather than in London over the years. In my opinion the UK is far too centralised around London and had it not of been for being in the EU, Birmingham would not of had the investment it did have in the 90s to revitalise its city centre, in my opinion it would of been left to decay and rot. The same can be said about Manchester after the IRA bomb, its city centre was also given a massive boost by EU funding. I trust Brussels more than London.
I really want the UK to be more like a federal state where all cities are equal and as important as the next, not just have this one mega city that outperforms the rest of the country and makes the rest of us fight for scrapps.
If Britain leaves the EU, in my opinion this country will be seen as a backward looking country.

 

[Aviador]

I'm of the same thinking. A colleague at work said to me that he sees the EU as a failsafe for all the irregularities of our own London centric government.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I'm ashamed to admit that I'm still in the 'undecided' camp.

I've tried to keep an open mind throughout and have listened carefully to arguments for both sides. I can make a case for and a case against, both seem to have positives and negatives. I think The Local Yokel is right in that nobody can predict what will happen either way and I'm sure in years to come we will be looking back thinking 'what if', no matter what the result.

Over the years whenever I have felt indifferent to an election I just haven't bothered to vote, whatever the outcome it would only be for a finite period of time anyway. This election is something that will not only affect me but also my children and most likely their children too and for that reason I have to vote.

I've got a couple more days yet so we'll see, to be honest I'll be glad when it's all over

 

[Brum X]

Also here in the UK, we need to get away from the fear that surrounds a european super state, Britain has a veto and we also are a Kingdom, like spain and the netherlands. It will not happen.
What are we going to do with them ?? Sell the queen off and the king of spain ????

Turkey joining the EU, that not going to happen, again Britain has a veto and so does Cyprus, do you really think Cyprus will allow Turkey to join the EU ??