Emirates

[Brum X]

And it worked.I didn't think for a minute that they were but it has been brought up a number of times and i am genuinely interested if it is feasible with the current facilities. My first instinct is no.

Indeed, I am interested too.

 

[Aceshigh]

Most major airports are moving away from cargo. It can go from anywhere. From an airport management point it bringe no money and takes up vital ramp space.

 

[User001]

The above statement is completely false.

 

[CL44]

In no particular order here are some answers (purely based on my opinion) for some of the points raised in previous replies in this thread.

I do not forsee a regular freighter option for BHX (unless something changes in a major way) as EK do not have a massive fleet of freighter type aircraft. If we do see flights into BHX they will be an ad-hoc service only unless they receive more frames.

Cargo operations do make money both from landing fees and handling charges. Most carriers will carry cargo (with certain exceptions being Ryanair / EasyJet / and some other low cost carriers). While I agree that not all flights carry cargo you can normally make arrangements for a flight to be opened up depending on the rate being paid per kilo and the service level being used. Cargo is very useful for Carriers as the revenue generated can be the difference between a service making money or not.

The handling facilities at Dnata (who handle EK) would struggle to handle regular freight operations unless they extend their facility by a large margin. Dnata handle several other Airlines who have their own requirements which must be met to allow the system to work properly. I would hope that the management at both EK and Dnata were talking to each other to confirm both requirements and availability of services to ensure that a mutually beneficial level of service can be offered.

Cargo is not as high profile as passenger operations (that is for sure) but cargo still has a place at modern Airports. Yes I agree that certain Airports do have a higher profile for Cargo than others (EMA / STN etc) but it is a very rare Airport that does not have any facilities for cargo operations. Even London City have cargo operations which when you consider the size of the Airport might seem strange to some people.

Personally I can see the potential for a service from BHX (if their fleet operations allow for the timetable to be set allowing for all other commitments to be covered as well) and if they do come on with 2 x A380 services per day they will certainly need something to fill the gap, however I am not holding my breath. The best option (in my opinion) is 1 x 773 and 1 x A380 per day.

 

[Coathanger16]

The best option (in my opinion) is 1 x 773 and 1 x A380 per day.

If that is what happens, I'd be very surprised if Qatar didn't increase their frequencies into BHX, or send larger aircraft.

 

[Jerry]

If that is what happens, I'd be very surprised if Qatar didn't increase their frequencies into BHX, or send larger aircraft.

They could decide to use the A350s. That would increase the business section to 36 and economy to 247. They use them for LHR and will be for DUB.

 

[Aceshigh]

Most major airports are moving away from cargo. It can go from anywhere. From an airport management point it bringe no money and takes up vital ramp space.

 

[CL44]

That is twice you have stated the exact same thing without any justification to back it up. Yes cargo takes up ramp space (when it is dedicated cargo certainly) but each movement bring revenue to the Airport via landing fees etc. Each movement has to be handled by HMRC (if an International shipment) and / or a local handling agent. This brings revenue to the Airport (OK perhaps not to the Airport management as such) but also keeps people in jobs. Major Airports like Singapore / Hong Kong / Taipei (and so many more) see daily flights from freighters and they don't seem to mind these flights coming in.
Now I am not suggesting that BHX are in the scale of these Airports but for a provincial Airport we do not do too bad, especially when you consider the set up at EMA which is rather impressive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (as I share here only too often) but for such a remark you should be prepared to back it up with relevant information to substantiate it.

 

[Brum X]

Most major airports are moving away from cargo. It can go from anywhere. From an airport management point it bringe no money and takes up vital ramp space.

And where on earth did you get that information from ??

 

[Brum X]

That is twice you have stated the exact same thing without any justification to back it up. Yes cargo takes up ramp space (when it is dedicated cargo certainly) but each movement bring revenue to the Airport via landing fees etc. Each movement has to be handled by HMRC (if an International shipment) and / or a local handling agent. This brings revenue to the Airport (OK perhaps not to the Airport management as such) but also keeps people in jobs. Major Airports like Singapore / Hong Kong / Taipei (and so many more) see daily flights from freighters and they don't seem to mind these flights coming in.
Now I am not suggesting that BHX are in the scale of these Airports but for a provincial Airport we do not do too bad, especially when you consider the set up at EMA which is rather impressive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (as I share here only too often) but for such a remark you should be prepared to back it up with relevant information to substantiate it.

Thanks for your input into this CL44

 

[User001]

As an example, even the passenger Mecca of LHR ring fences slots for pure freight aircraft.

Far from 'moving away from cargo', Cargo Logic air will start flights soon, Emirates SkyCargo, DHL, Singapore Airlines and Royal Jordanian cargo are just some of the pure freight operators.

 

[Jerry]

Most major airports are moving away from cargo. It can go from anywhere. From an airport management point it bringe no money and takes up vital ramp space.

Cargo is a major part of airport operations. Lots of airports big and small what to increase what they ship from there cargo centre's.

 

[Aceshigh]

And where on earth did you get that information from ??

In context compared to passenger flights !
And I have no idea why it appeared twice.

 

[CL44]

In context compared to passenger flights !

When you talk about comparing passenger operations to freighter operations you may as well compare chalk and cheese. They are two totally different things. Passenger operations are based on where do people want to from and to and at what time of the day do they want to travel (thinking here of the AA / BA timetable to JFK from LHR which is nearly one an hour during the day). Cargo does not have that luxury of choice. Due to the lack of freighter operations I sometimes have to hunt around for an option (which does not involve a Cooks tour) for shipments which have to travel by a pure freighter. Yes there are options out there but you have to look carefully to find the best service for each particular shipment. I am not talking here about the big courier companies (FedEx / DHL / UPS etc) but freighter operators such as TK/EK/QR/AF/CX/SQ/CV (of which please note all bar CV are passenger operators as well as cargo). Sometimes it is not a case of finding the flight but actually getting the goods out of the UK in time for a flight off the continent. Yes all of these carriers have options from the UK (spread far and wide from Prestwick to Stansted), but a flight on a Monday is not much good when your connection is the previous day (and it is a service which only runs every fortnight)!

If (and it is a very big IF) EK were to bring a freighter here into BHX on even a weekly basis it would be a boon to this Airport (apart from being the only freighter in the UK for EK outside of LHR) it would solve the issue of reduced capacity due to the loss of one flight and one of the two remaining flights being an A380. If ever the second flight became an A380 they would need to either offer a third flight into LHR (slot restricted even with ring fenced slots for freighter ops) or a flight into one of their other destinations in the UK. Now being fair to NCL here it is much more likely to be either BHX or MAN due to the scale of the operation and also the road network for getting cargo from their other receiving points. EMA is always an option but as they do not fly out from there they do not have any presence or identity which can be an issue. BHX is not slot controlled (as LHR is) and with it being in the middle of the road network seems to me to be the ideal Airport to use for such a service. We have a decent apron available for loading / unloading, we have the equipment (high-loaders) but (and this is the big one which has been covered previously) we are running short on warehouse space for both building and breaking down the pallets. Unless and until the handling agent is able to extend their facilities this can only be a one off situation for BHX.

Now I could be totally wrong about this and we could see a semi regular flight into BHX to cover either certain shipments or to fill gaps due to reduced capacity (and please believe me I hope I am wrong) but I am of the opinion that any freighter operations we see here for EK will be on a flight by flight basis only and it is unlikely to ever go scheduled until the facilities are seen to be up to the task.

 

[BHXsupporter]

Then let's hope that PK and the team will announce building of such facilities in the forthcoming plans. Put in infrastructure and it will surely be more likely to be used than simply to live in hope for increased freighter operations. Nudging others into making decisions is part of marketing - isn't it?

 

[58terminus]

Unless and until the handling agent is able to extend their facilities this can only be a one off situation for BHX.

Thanks CL44.Thats what i thought.

 

[JF57]

Hard to see what can be more finalised than moving two confirmed bookings for two people from the morning to lunchtime flights on two separate dates in September.

Just disappointing if it was not for this group I would have probably not checked the booking on the Emirate's website and through their app. With no email from Emirates I would have still been in the dark as of today when flights were changed on Thursday.

As I mentioned We got an email straight away from Monarch (and a text as well) when they cancelled a flight.

Which airline would most expect to perform better?


Will do. We have swapped the outbound flight from lunchtime to the evening before through the travel agent at no cost due to the change.

I am intending to ask Emirates for lounge access for the longer transit on the return through Dubai but will wait a few days to see if they do tell us anything before I ring.

Here is an update.

As I mentioned we rearranged outbound to evening flight through Thomas Cook. They said they had not been notified by Emirates of cancellation / change.

I rang Emirates on Friday and complained about the transit time being 6.5 hours instead of just over 2 hours. They said that they would only offer hotel accommodation if the transit time was over 8 hours. I was only asking for lounge access which they would not consider!

Emirates said their system would have definitely sent email to TC but would not have emailed me as tickets had not been issued.

Booked seats on flights on Saturday all on new flights.

Yesterday had an email from Emirates telling me about the return flight change even though we had already booked seats on the lunchtime flight on Saturday.

Not sure why email eventually came. Might have been seat booking and ticket issue. Could have been from phone call. Who knows?

One benefit is we are now on A380 going out with seats on top deck in 2-4-2 configuration so we have window and aisle.

Hopefully no more changes.

 

[Brum X]

Great stuff JF57, glad your flights are now sorted.

 

[JF57]

Great stuff JF57, glad your flights are now sorted.

Thanks. Long time since we flew with Emirates so will be interesting to see what they are like now.

 

[Brum X]

Thanks. Long time since we flew with Emirates so will be interesting to see what they are like now.

I look forward to listening to your review when you return.