Manchester: Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations

[David_itl]

Just the ones to LBA .. Stobart from Cork, flybe Isle of Man and Exeter, Loganair Norwich and Inverness. Coordinating of Fr24.

 

[Land23R]

One of the things that has often puzzled me at MAN is the enormous gaps between arrivals when in fog and hence single runway ops. At LGW for example, 10-14 miles seems to be the norm despite their greater traffic and departures to fit in.

It was pleasing to see this morning therefore, that the spacing on FR24 for R23R looked more typical of LGW with an a/c on finals and 2 others on approach, and not the 18-20 miles gaps we sometimes have. However, a short while ago, the gaps were enormous with an a/c on finals and the next arrival just leaving the Dayne hold (25 miles?), a pattern repeated when I checked 10 minutes later.

Does anyone know the reason for this? I can appreciate there may be a need at times to get 2 or 3 departures away between arrivals but I wondered if there were other factors - e.g. taxiway lay-out or airfield maintenance that causes this situation at MAN. Obviously the wider the spacing, the longer the holding and delays.

 

[Land23R]

If I'm hearing right, airport will be closed for approx. 60 minutes for maintenance.
Another hole in the runway perhaps?

What a day for it to happen when we're in LVPs. Typical! Mind you, ATC have reduced the spacing on inbounds significantly, presumably to get those holding for a while down before the closure.

 

[User001]

G-EZBA A319 operating BCN-LPL diverting in.

 

[Land23R]

I don't see the infamous notam yet but I notice an easyjet has gone to EMA and another heading for NCL I think.
A flybe probably went to LBA. Still a couple of a/c holding for LPL.

 

[User001]

Probably went to NCL as BOS isn’t much better at MAN than it is at LPL.

 

[Land23R]

And 2 Ryanairs to LBA. RVRs of c 400-500m have not stopped easy and Ryanair diverting here in the past.
There may be no notam but I suspect airlines have been warned of handling delays at MAN due to catching up from problems due to the fog and then runway closure.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Interesting to see that Sun-Air seems to be in a Liverpool hold!

 

[Land23R]

Looks like he may be landing 09 at LPL Scottie. I assume he was only cat1 for MAN and was confident LPL would improve first.

 

[Aviador]

METAR: EGCC 182020Z AUTO VRB01KT 0100 R23R/0275 FG VV/// 04/04 Q1032 NOSIG

Pea soup

 

[User001]

AA54 from Chicago has been delayed and will not arrive until 0450 tomorrow!

That means 2 ORD tomorrow. One at 0450 and another at 0835.

 

[Dobbo]

Back in the habit whilst the service still operates!

 

[Aceshigh]

BA cancelled 2 x again today.

 

[Land23R]

Based on last night's forecast of widespead fog for central and southern half of the country this morning, I imagine quite a lot of flights were cancelled in advance. Not for the first time, the forecast was abysmally inaccurate with any fog appearing only fairly briefly in the middle of the night.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Based on last night's forecast of widespead fog for central and southern half of the country this morning, I imagine quite a lot of flights were cancelled in advance. Not for the first time, the forecast was abysmally inaccurate with any fog appearing only fairly briefly in the middle of the night.

Despite the powerful, modern computers and other paraphernalia not available even a decade ago I often wonder if weather forecasting is any more accurate these days than in June 1944 when the meteorologists were able to correctly advise Eisenhower that a limited break in the weather would occur that would enable Operation Overlord (already postponed 24 hours because of adverse weather) to proceed.

 

[BlueManc]

Looking at 2017, fog down south doesn't produce a dot. Our last LHR or LGW divert due excessive holding was the Air China on 30/12/16. The only LHR divert this year was our returning shuttle due iced up stands last week.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Despite the powerful, modern computers and other paraphernalia not available even a decade ago I often wonder if weather forecasting is any more accurate these days than in June 1944 when the meteorologists were able to correctly advise Eisenhower that a limited break in the weather would occur that would Operation Overlord (already postponed 24 hours because of adverse weather) to proceed.

Personally I would say that the forecasts have not been anywhere as accurate as they were back in the days before the airport based met office was closed.

 

[Land23R]

This extract from a notam may help to explain a question I raised earlier about the very long spacing on arrivals when in LVPs.

A3447/17 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QFAXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5321N00217W005
A) EGCC PART 2 OF 2 B) 1711130000 C) PERM
(E) TAXIWAYS LIT STOPBAR BLOCK-TO-BLOCK AIRCRAFT SEPARATION IN
OPERATION AT OR BELOW INSTR RVR(IRVR) 200M.
(F) WHEN LOW VISIBILITY PROCEDURES ARE IN FORCE A MUCH REDUCED LANDING RATE CAN BE EXPECTED DUE TO THE REQUIREMENT FOR INCREASED SPACING BETWEEN ARRIVING AIRCRAFT. IN ADDITION TO THE PREVAILING WEATHER CONDITIONS SUCH FACTORS AS EQUIPMENT SERVICEABILITY MAY ALSO HAVE AN EFFECT ON ACTUAL LANDING RATES. FOR INFORMATION AND PLANNING PURPOSES, THE APPROXIMATE LANDING RATES THAT CAN BE EXPECTED ARE:
IRVR (M) APPROXIMATE LANDING RATE
BETWEEN 1000 AND 600 20
BETWEEN 600 AND 400 12
LESS THAN 400 10

As the forecast is not great until midday tomorrow, if it's right for once, we can expect more of the reduced landing rates, longer holding times with the possibility of diversions away.

I wouldn't mind knowing what criteria LGW operates to in LVPs. A low cloud base there didn't seem to be having much impact this morning. There again, MAN may be more severely restricted because of the current WIP with several runway exits closed.

 

[Scottie Dog]

You might also like to refer to my post #594 of 16th November (I have just copied it into this thread) which refers to work being undertaken on Taxiway Alpha which means that the last exit point on 23R is Link Bravo. If that link is missed then it's a case of having to backtrack and that, presumably, requires longer gaps.

The sooner they do a complete rebuild of Taxiway Alpha the better - it's been a building site, on and off, for more years than I like to remember.

 

[David_itl]

RYR668 EI-FIJ coming in from the snoclo BHX.