New Start-Up Airline

[KARFA]

The ONLY thing that it has going for it with regards to Finger66's plan is that it would likely afford a more reliable weather performance than LBA, particularly when you take into account the nature of the aircraft it would utilise.

No it really doesn't. Without trying to get further distracted by discussion on CF which the OP isn't actually interested in, please note the discussion further upthread. CF has no instrument approach capability and no prospect of getting any in the short or medium term - any use would have to be with visual approaches under visual meteorological conditions. LBA has two runways with ILS, one able to operate to CAT1 standard and the other able to operate at CAT3. CF therefore does not, and is not likely in the near future, offer more reliable weather performance than LBA

 

[a300boy]

Just to re-iterate my post CF is not looking for schedule airline operations due to the cost of providing the services required.

 

[lbaspotter]

No it really doesn't. Without trying to get further distracted by discussion on CF which the OP isn't actually interested in, please not the discussion further upthread. CF has no instrument approach capability and no prospect of getting any in the short or medium term - any use would have to be with visual approaches under visual meteorological conditions. LBA has two runways with ILS, one able to operate to CAT1 standard and the other able to operate at CAT3. CF therefore does not, and is not likely in the near future, offer more reliable weather performance than LBA

Even though it's a non starter for his new airline as stated by "Finger66" himself.
The fact that Church Fenton dosen't have controlled airspace won't do them any favors. As most commercial airlines like to fly through (CAS) so to operate safely so to get round all them little private aircraft and microlights. The airfield also suffers form Fog more often than LBA, what with it been sat in the Vale of York. The costs to upgrade and offer any of these facilities would be an expensive outlay as "A300boy" says.

 

[Finger66]

Surely the BAe Jetstream 31/32 comes in to play as well, what with its proven track record at LBA.
Maximum cruise speed of 264 mph, has a range of 783 miles and can cruise comftably up there at 25,000 ft.
Okay I agree the aircraft are now are getting on a bit age wise, so that might mean higher maintenance costs could hinder the operation. But getting crews to fly them for you might be easier, as could just go cherry pick from disgruntled lot at Eastern Airways.

It's in the pot but will be probably be discounted on safety concerns. Think Links Air. The biggest appeal currently is one of the NG 19 seaters coming into the market. Think there may be crew and routes up for grabs from T3 before long!

 

[leedslad]

Sorry my suggestion of Leeds East wasn't meant to be controversial. I have no aviation knowledge but am a business user and also studied many start up case studies.

The reasons for my suggestion which hopefully can be overcome at LBA...

User perspective

End to end journey time is important to business users. Journey planner time from Leeds centre by car is 35 mins. To LBA is exactly the same. Then factor in close access to the A1. No traffic issues near Church Fenton but unreliable journeys to LBA

Once at the airport then parking, security, check in will all be far less predictable time wise whereas will be near instant at Church Fenton.

Business Case

For any start up cash flow is key. Paying hefty landing fees etc for the first months to land at LBA with aircraft that won't necessarily be full from day one could be a huge drain. Not to mention the lack of flexibility at LBA due to capacity constraints.


Let's take an example of a business traveller driving from Leeds centre. Journey to both airports should take 35 minutes. However journey to LBA far less predictable so you'd have to allow an hour. Could probably allow 45 mins to church Fenton.

On arrival parking, check in and security you'd need to allow another hour at LBA. I'd wager you could allow 30 mins at church Fenton.

Already 45 mins quicker journey time end to end.

Now the issue of take off times... At church Fenton you'd have the pick of any slot to suit. At LBA you'd be left with the scraps. So more convenient take off times as well...

 

[KARFA]

I think the OP has made it clear that CF isn't being looked at. Can we stick to the topic please rather than continuing going on about CF which is no longer relevant?

 

[scousefowler]

I think the OP has made it clear that CF isn't being looked at. Can we stick to the topic please rather than continuing going on about CF which is no longer relevant?

It is relevant. Its a topic about a new start up airline. There is a business case for it, if nothing else but to compare adv/disadvs against operating from LBA. I think `leedslad` points some of those out. I think another sensible poster mentioned the fact that there is pretty much bad fog quite often due to the vale of York effect. A good point. Whats wrong with debating this? Nobodies bashing LBA - its my home airport and i love it to bits. The fact is a small scale business travel offering - CF has some merit worth discussing - especially from a business investors point of view.

No doubt `fingers` will have already evaluated these pro`s and cons extensively in his business plan (which will presumably cover a multitude of options, scenarios and comparisons) seeing as he is already choosing logos and names for his airline.

 

[KARFA]

It is relevant. Its a topic about a new start up airline. There is a business case for it, if nothing else but to compare adv/disadvs against operating from LBA. I think `leedslad` points some of those out. I think another sensible poster mentioned the fact that there is pretty much bad fog quite often due to the vale of York effect. A good point. Whats wrong with debating this? Nobodies bashing LBA - its my home airport and i love it to bits. The fact is a small scale business travel offering - CF has some merit worth discussing - especially from a business investors point of view.

Open a new thread and debate it then. The OP isn't looking at CF so it isn't relevant to his new startup airline which is what the topic is about.

 

[leedslad]

On that basis why not open this start up airline at Heathrow,it's an even better airport...

I'm just pointing out a few things to be considered for a Leeds based start up business airline. Free advice and input from a future potential customer.

Of course LBA may be the ultimate first choice but my points above have to be considered in the final decision with some major benefits at LBA outweighing them...

 

[lbaspotter]

Hard to believe that the OP "Finger66" has categorically said Leeds/Bradford is his the first choice for his new start up operation, why are people are still commenting on here about Church Fenton (Leeds East) when it was ruled out last night and is no longer an option!

It makes me wonder if some have ulterior motive??

 

[White Heather]

Leedslad, you have demonstrated often before that you do not think much of LBA and have taken this opportunity to once again try to demonstrate the failings of LBA and the merits of CF. What you have done is demonstrate that you really are not well versed in the world of aviation. I would point out that this is the LBA forum however, so despite the fact you are clearly trying to sway Finger 66 towards CF rather than LBA, this is NOT the forum to debate the merits of CF, particularly given that the 'owner' of the thread has already said he is not interested in CF - an airport that as yet has no commercial licence, no terminal, no navigation aids, no public transport, no main road link to the airport, no handling agents etc etc.

 

[Finger66]

Come on all. Let's use this thread for what it's intended for. LBA is a proven airport and that's that. So no swaying will be made. Not much progress to report this week due to work and personal committments. Back on the business plan at the weekend.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

On that basis why not open this start up airline at Heathrow,it's an even better airport...

There are no available slots at Heathrow.

....CF - an airport that as yet has no commercial licence, no terminal, no navigation aids, no public transport, no main road link to the airport, no handling agents etc etc.

I believe the term I used was 'laughable'.

 

[leedslad]

Good luck

 

[Seasider]

The comment about the time to get from Leeds Centre, made me think ... "Have you found any research about where people are travelling from to get to the airport?"

 

[Aviador]

The comment about the time to get from Leeds Centre, made me think ... "Have you found any research about where people are travelling from to get to the airport?"

That's is exactly what I was thinking. The majority of business travellers in Leeds will come from the Northern half of the city. As a generalisation, fewer business travellers will originate from towns in East or South Leeds as many of these areas suffer from deprivation.

 

[Finger66]

That's is exactly what I was thinking. The majority of business travellers in Leeds will come from the Northern half of the city. As a generalisation, fewer business travellers will originate from towns in East or South Leeds as many of these areas suffer from deprivation.

These comments are all very important in forgetting one thing. We are not just talking about where departing pax will come from - North of the city is ideal, but we have to consider arriving pax. They are not going to want to arrive into an airport with no real infrastructure already in place. Hence the need for this to be LBA over anywhere else I refuse to refer to specifically. Trying to get into the juicier parts of the business plan this morning. That is to say starting to now look at the operating costs. Even when that is done it still leaves me a long way from raising the necessary Capital (excuse the latest pun)

 

[Finger66]

I am sure you will have all noticed that things have gone a little quiet in this thread. So before any doom and gloom starts to surface I just want to say this is only because of existing priorities so nothing more to report at the moment. So this has purely been a pause rather than any end. And with such a long way to go to have any chance of actually making this a reality, it will just have to wait a little longer thats all. The business plan has to be squeaky clean and that does take time. Not easy around existing work and personal committments. But rest assured, progress however slow, is on going

 

[lbaspotter]

Thanks for keeping us up to date. I totally agree that your better off taking as much time as possible getting you business plan in to place. The more solid your plan is, you'll have the better a chance of making a real success story of this in the future.

As the saying goes! "All good things come those that wait"...

 

[Finger66]

My stupid sense of humour is at it again. Perhaps this should be called Air Fingus. Not a very pc name and not sure our emerald green friends would be too happy either. But then am I allowed freedom of speech or not? Joking apart there are 3 or 4 very good and very sensible names being considered. The downside is it has basically been a non existent week with progress. Need to pick up some momentum again soon