Route Development & Rumours

[User001]

Ray,

You say maybe it's time for the airports to join forces, how about we do it on here too?

I actually thought that there was a chance that some civil discussion could take place, but what chance is there when even the 'moderator' starts 'liking' posts that tells people 'your boring, go to bed'. Not very civil, is it?

It also doesn't help that a poster very clearly mentioned MAN, even a blind person could see it, but then poorly tried to backtrack saying 'they have no idea why MAN is being discussed' as they weren't talking about MAN? (honestly couldn't make it up).

End of the day, MAN vs BHX, or indeed any airport vs Airport, will always have an underlying tone of rivalry, we are proud supporters of our locals, it's natural and I personally have no issue with it. What doesn't help us when people 'think' they are winning an argument by getting personal, when in fact, it shows they obviously have little grasp of some decent subject matter.

To finish off, of course I want BHX to do well, I want any non London airport to take the LHR/LGW issue by the horns and show what it is capable of. For the first time in a long time, I see no need for the bigger UK regionals to be at each other's throats, or this jealousy. It's not ruffling my feathers, I'm relishing it!

 

[jfy1999]

Well, well. I seem to have come in late but I'm glad I didn't take part in the whole MAN/BHX debate. These seem to resurface periodically and degenerate pretty quickly. I have to echo User's sentiments - regional UK route development is something we should be celebrating together, and we should be supportive of each other as long as LHR is desperate to get the third runway to hoover up our precious passengers.

I think the first point Richard raised wasn't a poke at MAN - the way I saw it, he was commenting on how the playing field was getting more level in terms of the attraction MAN and BHX had to new airlines. Others may have seen it differently, I don't know. I'm used to reading some pretty fiery stuff on other forums but I joined this forum for the same reason as Kevin - because there are fewer squabbles about the size/routes/airlines/merits of one airport over another.

I predict BHX will see up to 8 long haul routes/increases, along with around 30 new short haul routes. This is how big 2017 will be.

Do you know what some of these new routes could be and who's intending to operate them, or is there too much confidential information? I'm guessing many of these have already been mentioned on this thread?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Totally agree.

I quite enjoyed the discussion last night and thought good points were made by all sides.

There are, however, instances of Manchester 'trolls' popping along every so often to try and put us in our place. I'm all for reasoned debate but when people are suggesting that Birmingham isn't even a proper airport, or that us Birmingham forumers are just schoolboys who only want planes to take pictures and write logs then it's equally as ridiculous. I think it's for that reason that people can sometimes get defensive when Manchester forumers come on with different opinions. I'm not saying it's right (and I know there are also Birmingham trolls) but for some it can seem like an attack, even if it's not meant that way.

As I said, I enjoyed the discussion last night and welcome people from anywhere to post on the BHX forum. Sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the excitement of an announcement and get a little carried away with how things are going. It's then that a fresh pair of eyes can offer a more realistic view.

I think that I have also made my feelings clear on my support for all of regional UK. We need to make it clear that there is more to the country than just London.

End of the day, MAN vs BHX, or indeed any airport vs Airport, will always have an underlying tone of rivalry, we are proud supporters of our locals, it's natural and I personally have no issue with it.

Let the discussion continue, without it getting too personal.

As they say 'play the ball, not the man'.

 

[User001]

Aaaanyway, back to the original news about China.

It is indeed Air China that are going to the CAAC to get a route appeal for BHX.

Word I've received is that they are applying for 3 weekly PEK-BHX, 4 weekly CTU-LHR (but likelihood is that 4 weekly PEK will have to be relinquished due to LHR slots, hence BHX flight now makes even more Sense as not only is it now serving its own area, but has some potential LHR overspill).

MAN-CTU would be 3 weekly.

It would be great if Air China do get the BHX flights, as it paves an easier path to get PVG/CTU flights. Slots at PEK have been an issue for intl flights from PEK, but, Air China cutting back the LHR flights frees up some slots for a direct transfer of flights.

 

[User001]

Do you know what some of these new routes could be and who's intending to operate them, or is there too much confidential information? I'm guessing many of these have already been mentioned on this thread?

I don't have any specific Intel, but, 30 is more than possible.

Jet2 basing aircraft could be 12-15 routes straight off.

Norwegian I believe would be a bit more slow and steady but potential for about 8 routes. So already we are at minimum of 20.

Wizz and Vueling could add a further 8-10 routes between them, blue air to Bacau, Austrian to Vienna, flybe could add 2-4 routes.

Actually, my 30 is too reserved now, might have to go back to me drawing board!

 

[Paulsstrange]

Jet 2 has all gone quiet but depending on the size of any potential Base we could see loads of routes but not sure how many could/would be new to BHX.

Another rumour was Finnair but that's gone quiet too.

 

[Brum X]

Well with this news that Air China are now sniffing around BHX, i wouldnt put it past HNA group to go back to discussions with the airport to launch there own BHX-PEK in 2017 to keep there traffic rights and to keep there all important market share, after all they obviously have an interest in BHX as they hold the rights in the first place and why would they just give it up to Air China ? I have a feeling we havent heard the last from HNA group just yet.
As for all these new 30+ routes User001 that your predicting, i really hope you are right. That would make 2017 even better than 2016. This will defo keep us talking on this forum over the coming months.

 

[richard winterbourn]

New airline routes and/or airlines.... Maybe the next few months will see development but for me i would be happy if the bulk of that was through organic growth; airlines that already serve BHX increasing their 'portfolio' on the back of good pax figures on the routes they already serve. That would be a good and solid base from which to move forward. I don't want to see a new airline come in on a route already being served, fail and then move out. That would only harm the existing airlines which have shown great faith in BHX.

 

[Aceshigh]

Looking at the papers what sticks in the claw is the fact that a 3rw runway would make long haul from the regions redundant.

The airlines I'm sure would offer price/capacity dumping as currently happens re LHR - NYC . 21 flights a day is simply madness and totally uneccessary.

What's worse is the fact that the taxpayer ie us will pick up a bill 3x larger than the cost of the Channel Tunnel only to be then told this is "great news for us".

I don't understand where the Birmingham and Manchester MPs are. They are being sold a pack of lies.

 

[thunderchild]

Now that BHX has both 2 out of 3 on both the USA/ME3 I wonder if Delta and Etihad feel they are missing some of the action?

There can’t be many airports out there served by AA and UA but not DL? (Lisbon is one). Likewise how many airports do EK and QR fly to but not EY?

 

[Ray Finkle]

I don't understand where the Birmingham and Manchester MPs are. They are being sold a pack of lies.

Me either.

Both Birmingham and Manchester have identified a window of opportunity to grow and look go be going for it in their own ways. We both stand to lose alot should rwy3 happen.

Bristol also stands to lose out. They have secured the return of long haul leisure and are looking at NY and a Middle Eastern route. Both could be lost to LHR similar to what happened with Continental.

I also wonder how Luton will fare seeing as Easyjet are such a big supporter of LHR and would be looking for access. Could they sustain huge bases at LGW, LTN and LHR? Maybe the arrivals of Vueling, Transavia and the like are in anticipation of a potential loss?

It's what we all want though, right?

 

[Brum X]

Im looking at this from both a local level and a national level. I want both Runway 3 to go ahead for the sake of the country becouse at the minuite there is leakage to other european countries such as FRA (Germany), AMS (Netherlands) and CDG (France) and i want BHX to organically grow so by the time we get this extra runway we will beable to stand on our own 2 feet. Heathrow is our most famous airport and known all around the world, it has given Britain some of the wealth that we have today and without it, we would all be much poorer as a result. In my opinion Gatwick is too far away from our capital city to take over from LHR so therefore it should be given the extra runway to grow and keep Britain strong.
In my opinion London (South East) is a different country and they alone should beable to support LHR and its third runway, dont forget by the time this is built, the population of London will be nearly 9 million, i expect the population of Birmingham to be over 1.5 million from the 1.2 million we have today if not even more so id expect both Birmingham and other large cities to support there own airports.

 

[Brum X]

The population of Greater Birmingham will be even more, we will be over 3 million from the current 2.65 million.

 

[Land23R]

Aceshigh said↑
"I don't understand where the Birmingham and Manchester MPs are. They are being sold a pack of lies"

Ray Finkle said
"Both Birmingham and Manchester have identified a window of opportunity to grow and look go be going for it in their own ways. We both stand to lose alot should rwy3 happen"

I'm glad some of us understand the possible/likely? implications of R3 for BHX & MAN, particularly with regard to long haul services. MAN were rather slow at reacting to Davies and the controversial propaganda being put out by LHR and its supporters, but BHX were somewhat quicker off the mark. But like both of you, I'm appalled at the lack of understanding and silence of some of our MPs, while others are actually in favour of R3. Even some business leaders in the regions seem to have swallowed the Heathrow 'spin' machine rhetoric.

 

[Brum X]

But i dont see why we cant support both, supporting both LHR and the expansion of our other airports. The problem in this country is that we have too many airports all fighting for the same passengers and all very close to each other. Are we seriously expecting our largest airport (As much as i love Brum) to have x2 runways until the end of the world when our nearest rival capital cities already have 3/4/5 runways ?????
This is a bit like BREXIT if that happens, nobody really knows the outcome, it will be risky either way.

 

[Butty]

Flipping heck! I take an afternoon nap and whilst doing so the world looks like it has flown into Brum. I think I will take another one...

....thunder child mentioned what happens if LHR gets a third runway, I would suspect not a great deal as far as BHX and regional airports are concerned. Without 24 hour operation it needs it now. But it will be years and years before it is open. This is the UK...we take our time over such matters. It has taken two years for a decision. Allow 5-6 for planning and CPO and legal challenges, and another 3-4 to build with more legal challenges. If we see it within a decade I will be surprised. Plus when it does open it may only result in BA closing Gatwick operations and a few airlines relocating from the south east who have been denied slots before. The demand to fly into and out of London and the south east will determine future growth at LHR.

Back for a nap now...hopefully we will have added a west coast route by dinner time.

 

[IanFarquharson]

Mr K and his team know that a 3rd runway at LHR would be a real blow for BHX (less of a blow for MAN), that's why now is the ideal opportunity to get the airlines to BHX (and MAN). While the demand for air travel is currently rising sharply and there is no new capacity in the South East now is our best chance.
Currently the grwoth at MAN, BHX & LTN is proving that the regions can and should grow to take pressure off the main London airports.
I would rather have NO new runway in the SE but would go for LGW getting one if I had to choose as this is the best option for BHX.

 

[JENNYJET]

Changing direction briefly, I noticed upon the Air Shows 2016 website that a B52 bomber shall be doing a flypast at RAF Cosford tomorrow Sunday 18th June.

If correct then there is a possibility of sightings as it passes through the Midlands region and no doubt it shall be heard!

I get frequent Cosford traffic over my place especially if Brize Norton is used as a staging post or Fairford for the B2, B1 or the B52.

Here's hoping for clear skies!!

 

[Bhx_fifteen]

Paul Kehoe has stated that BHX are in talks with new airline Cobalt Air who are in the process of announcing their initial routes to/from their Larnaca hub (flights to STN & MAN already announced). They have ambitious plans to redirect some of the traffic going through the Middle East to Cyprus, and are aiming to launch long haul operations in 2017 to Asia (incl. China) and Africa.

 

[Ray Finkle]

They have a nice looking livery, hope it works out for them.

Just done a dummy booking and their website offers fares of £129.98 for a return trip from Stansted to Larnaca in the peak school holiday period. Monarch are showing almost £380 for the same dates from Birmingham.