Route Development & Rumours

[Hassaan]

Now the question is as to when the A340 will be in operation at BHX, it's a bit boring to see A310's at BHX every day. It'd be great to see something that you don't get at BHX often, a scheduled A340 is one.

 

[pug]

Hassan, you are mixing spotter demands with operational realism.

In other words, it would be nice to see an A340 at BHX, but there is currently not enough demand for one.

 

[Aviador]

It's only been a short time really since the flights were re-introduced so I can't see them introducing A340 onto the route any time soon.

 

[CL44]

Have Mahan actually taken delivery of the A340 as yet? I have seen no information anywhere else that suggests they have received the aircraft or have any plans as to where to fly to with it. While I agree with Hassan13 that it would be nice to see a scheduled A340 here at BHX, I would say that Mahan will continue with the A300/A310 as this type and size really does suit their business plan. I am still confused about their reasoning why Agents are not allowed to book cargo on their flights. They are about the only Airline I have come across in 26 years that keep everything about cargo bookings "in-house".

 

[Hassaan]

This is where the whole A340 discussion came from.

Mahan Air to use an Airbus A340 to BHX!!

Mahan Air are in the process of acquiring their first Airbus A340

The aircraft is currently being prepared for service and - subject to final Government approval - will initially be used on their service to Birmingham from Tehran

More information - and the updated schedule to BHX - will appear here in due course

A news update from the "BHX Flight Guide"
http://bhxflightguide.blogspot.com/
Thursday 18 February 2010

It is being leased from HiFly.

 

[pug]

Hassaan, that is likely to have been a rumour. Almost a year andnothing has happened! I take it the story was never updated?

 

[pug]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

That looks like a standard response to me. They have a good idea of what routes would work and what wouldnt, so they will only be going after the ones they believe will.

 

[Hassaan]

Yes it hasn't been updated but Wikipedia says "The airline is in the process of leasing an Airbus A340-300 to be used on the Tehran-Birmingham route" and the table shows that it is to be leased from Hi Fly. It depends on how long it usually takes to lease an aircraft, I'm not sure aircraft leases are updated often. I'm pretty sure nothing on BHX Flight Guide is a rumour, but wherever Gordon Stretch heard it from, that must have been a rumour.

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Continental: It's BHX's currently longest serving US carrier, so the demand must be there if a DC-10 was used in the late 90's, then the service went back down to the 757 when they retired. Since it's being going on and on with no issues, there should be room for an upgrade to a 767, narrowbodies can get boring for travellers and spotters.

Air China: BHX completely agree with it according to a reply of an email I sent them. I think they are waiting for a runway extention, but I think a direct route to Beijing with an Airbus A330-200 is possible with the current runway, demand may be the problem.

 

[Aviador]

Again Wikipedia is a fantastic source of information but it is open to abuse. People from competing cities tend to alter the other cities information to make it less accurate. If you compare the Birmingham page on Wikipedia with the Manchester page you will see daily changes with people from Manchester claiming Manchester is the second largest city in the UK. Then people go and alter Birmingham's claim to the second position on the wiki Birmingham page. I have found that the same tends to happen with pages for airlines and airports as rumours tend to find there way onto the pages. It would be fantastic for BHX if the airline upgraded to the A340 but it is unlikely at the moment. In March the government is going to release revised plans for aviation taxation. The plans could include the much talked about supplementary tax on air travel from airports from the London and the South East. If this happens then perhaps the airline may look at upgrading the route if they think passengers from the South East will go to Birmingham to use it.

 

[User0001]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Hassan

I admire your entusiasm, but your requests have no business meaning behind them.

For example, Continental will not send a B767-400 or B777 to BHX purely because the 'spotters are bored of them'. Even LHR sees multiple daily B757's of Continental (and AA on BOS for that matter), and in terms of passenger comfort, the B757s as far as Im aware, now have AVOD in them.

PIA will not be expanding ops until the whole Turkish merger/co-op/takeover whatever it is, is sorted.

Emirates - I have explained in the EK thread on that one....

BA- Im sorry but hell is deffinatly going to freeze over before you see regular B744/B777 ops from them. I dont even have enough time in the day to explain why that one will never see the light of day

Air China- MAN will see ops before BHX will. Firstly, the runway needs sorting, then BHX needs the same sort of population that MAN has in its catchment, then, BHX may see a service

Qatar- This one may see the light of day. A 4 weekly A332 service that connects on to the ATQ flights could work. We have just been studying Qatar on the other forum I participate in, and noticed QR hasnt expanded MAN for 5 years, despite the EK/EY growth. Maybe because BHX is on the cards, the MAN capacity expansion could be from BHX? However, I have heard EDI is the next QR destination, due to the Oil links of eastern Scotland?

Saudi- have not long retreated from MAN, where a much larger pax/cargo market exsists. Also, being so close to their multiple daily flights at LHR doesnt give much hope.

Just my 2 cents anyway

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Well, I sent BHX an email two weeks ago, and I got a reply informing me that they had forwarded the email to the Route Development team for their info, and they'll be looking to start the routes (if they think it would work) in time for the summer timetable in March. This email was mainly about:

- Qatar to BHX
- AA to BHX
- EK third daily
- PIA expansion
- Continental 764 upgrade

We'll wait to see what happens.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Well, I sent BHX an email two weeks ago, and I got a reply informing me that they had forwarded the email to the Route Development team for their info, and they'll be looking to start the routes (if they think it would work) in time for the summer timetable in March. This email was mainly about:

- Qatar to BHX
- AA to BHX
- EK third daily
- PIA expansion
- Continental 764 upgrade

We'll wait to see what happens.

I would have thought that March would be a bit too soon for most of these suggested initiatives but, as you say, we will await the eventual outcome with interest.

 

[User0001]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Hassan-

PIA- time will tell what they do, but, if you have read ANY news articles, you will see they are planning to shrink in Europe, so, time will tell what will happen to the UK market.

Emirates/Qatar- Please see the relevent threads for my views

Continental- WONT upgrade to a B767-400. Look at LHR. 4 out of 5 EWR flights are by the B757, so why would they operate a B764 to BHX if they dont even opertate it that regularly to LHR (their new UK fortress). Not to mention the loads/yields BHX-USA are abysmal!

American airlines- They have no intention of serving BHX at this present time.

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

PIA - I have heard a lot about the merger and some UK routes being expanded because they were profitable. Who knows, that may count for Birmingham.

Continental - I wouldn't use Heathrow as an example here. They were used at Glasgow in the summer of 2003/2004 and occasionally been used at Heathrow, Manchester and Birmingham. Probably not regularly used on services in the UK but at least it's not the largest aircraft of the airline regularly used in the UK today. There are many airlines/aircraft that only operate at BHX in the UK, such as PIA operating the A310 at BHX from 2001-2007, apart from Glasgow, Manchester and Heathrow used 747's and 777's. In regards to load factors and yields, there has got to be demand if the route is still going after 13 years.

In regards to AA, we'll see what they think.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Hassaan

To take one example of apparent demand not being sufficient to either commence or maintain a route, I point to Ryanair.

This airline has axed several routes from BHX in the past (and from other airports) despite getting 90% and more load factors month in and month out, especially in summer.

As has been pointed out by others, high loads in themselves count for nothing if the underlying cost of providing the routes means an airline will either lose money or make relatively little in comparison with what it could earn elsewhere.

Now I hope that BHX will grow its long haul routes in time because from a personal point of view the airport is a far preferable alternative for such travel than Heathrow - the two airports are about the same distance from my home.

BHX is a much more civilised experience in my opinion.

 

[User0001]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

My post seems to have dissapeared?

Anyway, hassan:

Search American Airlines Hounslow, and see what they have based there. Realise then, that is where I work and then try telling me you know better!

As for Conti, LHR is a good comparasin, as with much much higher loads/yields, it has 4 daily B757's, yet you seem to think BHX can support a B764. Conti had 2 daily, it didnt work, they had the B764, it didnt work, they had 11 weekly, it didnt work, so that shows despite 13 years of loyalty, the demand is just about enough for 1 B757

Also RE PIA, I wouldnt boast about the fact BHX had an A310 whilst MAN/LHR had B777/B747, as it shows loads were lower by the fact they had a smaller aircraft!

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Well, maybe AA won't work considering the response from people on many aviation forums.

It's a shame BHX can't get something that no other UK airport has, or the same that Manchester and Heathrow gets. The 764 at BHX was only a substitute, and I heard it was almost full on those days, the 2 daily service in 2004 was actually intended to operate between June and October, I don't think they had an intention to operate a second daily service again.

Well, PIA did start with a B747, and they only downgraded it because either the 747 was too expensive or fuel-stopping in Copenhagen was too much work, so the A310 was the only other relevant aircraft to operate a 3600-mile flight, load factors were pretty good on the 747. The 777 started operating at BHX in 2007 because no other PIA aircraft was allowed in the EU (because of the ban), but appeared to have been a permanent move, considering they are now occasionally using 773's, and load factors are just around the 80% mark, no wonder they haven't added a fifth weekly flight yet!

 

[User0001]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

I know that it can be frustrating to see your local airport suffering, but, you need to understand that there are various reasons for this, and you highlight LHR/MAN, and these are the main reasons.
Airport charges are another, the case point being Ryanair and the fact they have gone back to MAN despite 'high charges' leads to questions as to why BHX has remained stagant (see my post on the Ryanair thread for more on that).

Yes, it would be brilliant if BHX got a carrier no other UK airport has, but with 2 very large airports either side of it. This drains away most chances BHX will have.

Emirates for example does well due to its vast onward network, and the fact it piles capacity on the UK market to outdo its European rivals. Etihad, however, are on a much smaller scale, and need partnerships to offer onward travel, hence why you only see them at LHR/MAN.

The simple fact is, BHX will never aspire to LHR/MAN status, as it would be competing against these 2 very airports and, unfortunatly for BHX, they have a headstart, as the airlines already serve there, so if further capacity is needed, in these stringant times, they will add to where they already have deals negotiated to keep costs down.
Basically, in terms of Etihad, why operate 1 flight with 1 set of costs to MAN, then another flight with another set of costs to BHX, a mere 150-200 miles down the road. Keep the costs down and get both flights into the same point!

 

[Aviador]

Re: Suggested New BHX Routes for 2011

Good news for both airports. At least this way the airline will be able to assess the popularity of the route and if successful may lead to an increase in the frequency of the flights in the future.