Route Development & Rumours

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

CO to EWR

well, I have some news Hassan, Continental/United are down to 5 weekly from November.

Are other UK regional airports seeing reductions in rotations next winter?

In terms of raw passenger numbers neither BHX nor BFS have fared much better than BRS in recent years, and BRS went down the pan last November.

 

[User0001]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

Yes, MAN is down to daily, and EDI/GLA/BFS/DUB also had cuts.

I am a bit more worried for BHX though, as its a bad day when CO has to go less than daily...

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

Thank you.

It was thought that BHX would pick up some of the displaced BRS-EWR passengers.

I remember that BHX was double-daily at one point, at least on some days of the week if not for the whole week in summer, then CO effectively moved one of the daily rotations south along the M5 in 2005.

There has been some concern from some of those who use BFS to EWR as well.

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

Disappointing but what's the reason for transatlantics not doing well out of BHX? We've had BA to JFK & YYZ, AA to ORD, PIA to ORD & YYZ, AI to YYZ, and now we have TS to YYZ. Thanks to the change from the 767 to the 757, the BA route was axed. Thanks to 9/11, the AA route was axed. Thanks to AI moving their operations from BHX to LHR, that route was axed. Thanks for PIA moving their transatlantics to MAN, their routes were axed.

I don't BHX being in the middle of MAN and LHR is the issue.

Are there any changes/upgrades on any of the routes for March 27, Sunday, as it's the start of the summer season?

 

[User0001]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

I don't BHX being in the middle of MAN and LHR is the issue

But, it is a major issue. Where do AA serve now? MAN & LHR. Where did the PIA TATL ops go? MAN. Where did AI go? LHR. Where does TS more frequency? MAN. Where does CO have more frequency? MAN & LHR.

See, you answer your own questions really. Look:

Thanks to AI moving their operations from BHX to LHR, that route was axed. Thanks for PIA moving their transatlantics to MAN, their routes were axed.

Are there any changes/upgrades on any of the routes for March 27, Sunday, as it's the start of the summer season?

Unless its already been announced, then no. Airlines plan their changes months in advance, not a few days before!

To be honest, dont expect anything new until October time now, as the new services for summer are done. Also, as summer time is the northern hemispheres busiest period, BHX had more chance for new service now than they did in winter. Therefore, I wouldnt even hold my breath for winter to be hones, not in the USA direction at least anyway.

 

[Aviador]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

hassaan13

I agree with world_rep here I'm afraid.

If you take a look back 18 months or so at the Manchester airport forum you will come across various bits about Manchester airport loosing long haul services through the recession.

What does this have to do with Birmingham airport you might ask?

Basically if an airline operates into say three or four UK airports and it needs to cut back it's flights to ensure it's profitability. The airline will first drop any flights where overlap occurs in it's route network. If the airline then needs to cut back further it will withdraw from regional airports to concentrate on feeding the hub airports or the country's capital city. This is the primary reason why Manchester airport lost so many long haul flights through the recession.

You have to look at the economic cycle. Recession leads to only primary airports being served. Gradual recovery will allow for secondary airports to be served again. Only when the economy has fully recovered will airlines then consider overlapping their own catchment areas.

Clearly other factors will influence their decision such as regional taxation differences (this has been proposed) or perhaps even competition from another airline. If a new start-up carrier opened a new base at BHX operating to destinations normally only served from say London Heathrow or Manchester then this could force a competing airline to consider BHX if they consider the new airline to be of sufficient threat to their business.

 

[User0001]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

Wasn't the AI move more about protecting LHR slots than BHX being too close to LHR?

That was the reason given, but, look which airport it went to protect. Would they have pulled BHX if FRA or MXP slots needed protecting? Whilst we would never know for sure, it would have been unlikely.

 

[Brum X]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

Dont know if this has been posted earlier but BMI are to base an A320 at BHX to operate some LH flights to FRA.

 

[User0001]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

Dont know if this has been posted earlier but BMI are to base an A320 at BHX to operate some LH flights to FRA

Yes, its A319 G-DBCB that will be based at BHX, A320 G-MIDS will be MAN based.

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

I check the BHX flight guide regularly and it is yet to be announced the revised schedules for the summer season or any upgrades. For instance, if PIA were going to add a fifth weekly flight, I don't think they would announce it in the news that they were going to increase frequency by one more flight per week.

 

[User0001]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

Hassan, I can assure you, if any upgrades were happening, youd Know

Also, check the airlines booking engines/timetables, as they are more reliable. After all, who is going to know about what they are doing for the summer, THE AIRLINES.

Not wanting to knock the BHX flight guide, it seems to be very slow at updating these days anyway, and always tends to be more biased towards good news than bad when it comes to airline news.

 

[User0001]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

I do have to add, Hassan, that you really have got to start listening to people.

I not going to deny your enthusiasm, but I have followed your posts across 5 forums now, and the fact you dont listen winds people up.
You have been ridiculed on many forums, banned off another, and it seems you even annoyed an airline by constantly bugging them!

You seem to be very selective on what you want to read, have a fantasy that BHX is going to be some sort of Mega Hub by the end of 2011, you dont take no for an answer and basically, ignore some good advice given to you.

There are lots of aviation workers on these sites, and many of them know what they are talking about.

For example, the summer timetable starts next week, and airlines plan months in advance on what equipment they will use, the schedule they will run a route on, how much they will sell tickets for and so on, yet, despite me telling you this, you still seem to think the airlines are going to 'magic up' this capacity in 3 1/2 days!
Why do you think CO have announced winter timetable cuts to BHX/MAN/DUB/EDI/BFS now- forward planning.
Why do you think EK/QR/EY announced MAN increases up to a Month ago for mid summer- forward planning


People have also given you advice on why a route will/will not work, yet you seem to ignore it saying 'people will use it'. But, despite several attempts to tell you this, its not just about the number of people carried. Its about ticket prices, equipment, schedule, subsidies, catchment.
The best example is your frustration that AI want to serve MAN-DEL daily but BHX-DEL 3 weekly. Its down to all of the things above. Just because BHX has the higher Indian population, does not mean it will do better.

Another thing that has been drilled into you is this fascination with 'big planes and long haul routes'.
Instead of writing to BHX demanding these routes, why not write to BHX and ask them what routes they want, and the answer will surprise you. They are actually after MAD/VIE/SXF/CGN and so on. We told you this, and after just 2-3 posts stating you were now concentrating on easyjet BHX-MAD (which is much more sensible in my opinion), you were soon back on to your fascination of 'big planes on long haul routes' again, namely PIA/EK.

At the end of the day Hassan, Im sorry to be so harsh, but I would like to help steer you in the right direction, and actually go after things that have more than a 10% chance of happening. But, I cant do it whilst you wont listen to people.

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Birmingham Airport News 2011

I do have to add, Hassan, that you really have got to start listening to people.

I not going to deny your enthusiasm, but I have followed your posts across 5 forums now, and the fact you dont listen winds people up.
You have been ridiculed on many forums, banned off another, and it seems you even annoyed an airline by constantly bugging them!

You seem to be very selective on what you want to read, have a fantasy that BHX is going to be some sort of Mega Hub by the end of 2011, you dont take no for an answer and basically, ignore some good advice given to you.

There are lots of aviation workers on these sites, and many of them know what they are talking about.

For example, the summer timetable starts next week, and airlines plan months in advance on what equipment they will use, the schedule they will run a route on, how much they will sell tickets for and so on, yet, despite me telling you this, you still seem to think the airlines are going to 'magic up' this capacity in 3 1/2 days!
Why do you think CO have announced winter timetable cuts to BHX/MAN/DUB/EDI/BFS now- forward planning.
Why do you think EK/QR/EY announced MAN increases up to a Month ago for mid summer- forward planning


People have also given you advice on why a route will/will not work, yet you seem to ignore it saying 'people will use it'. But, despite several attempts to tell you this, its not just about the number of people carried. Its about ticket prices, equipment, schedule, subsidies, catchment.
The best example is your frustration that AI want to serve MAN-DEL daily but BHX-DEL 3 weekly. Its down to all of the things above. Just because BHX has the higher Indian population, does not mean it will do better.

Another thing that has been drilled into you is this fascination with 'big planes and long haul routes'.
Instead of writing to BHX demanding these routes, why not write to BHX and ask them what routes they want, and the answer will surprise you. They are actually after MAD/VIE/SXF/CGN and so on. We told you this, and after just 2-3 posts stating you were now concentrating on easyjet BHX-MAD (which is much more sensible in my opinion), you were soon back on to your fascination of 'big planes on long haul routes' again, namely PIA/EK.

At the end of the day Hassan, Im sorry to be so harsh, but I would like to help steer you in the right direction, and actually go after things that have more than a 10% chance of happening. But, I cant do it whilst you wont listen to people.

Thanks for the advice and knock.

 

[User0001]

Re: Potential Routes

quick heads up hassan hassan

I've heard from AA that they are due to make an announcement soon regarding a new BHX service. It's likely to be from JFK or ORD on a 763. Better keep checking their website

How many times do I have to repeat this before you get the message AA ARE NOT COMMING TO BHX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the day the A380 came to BHX, it came in full and left with 325, out of 517. If it left full, what difference would it have made?

The A380 config on the day was 499, not 517.

Air India are close to announcing a three weekly DEL-BHX service, operated by an A330-200 starting October

In a few months, a decision is due to be made on a 'hub' for Air India USA and Canada flights, either BHX or DUB

Its not going to be BHX (I dont agree with the DUB decision but thats how AI want to play it!)

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Potential Routes

quick heads up hassan hassan

I've heard from AA that they are due to make an announcement soon regarding a new BHX service. It's likely to be from JFK or ORD on a 763. Better keep checking their website

How many times do I have to repeat this before you get the message AA ARE NOT COMMING TO BHX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the day the A380 came to BHX, it came in full and left with 325, out of 517. If it left full, what difference would it have made?

The A380 config on the day was 499, not 517.

Air India are close to announcing a three weekly DEL-BHX service, operated by an A330-200 starting October

In a few months, a decision is due to be made on a 'hub' for Air India USA and Canada flights, either BHX or DUB

Its not going to be BHX (I dont agree with the DUB decision but thats how AI want to play it!)

How do you know it's not going to be BHX? Also, in terms of the A380, it came in full, and left with roughly 3/4 of the aircraft. If it had left full, what problems would there have been? I know that there would be weight limits but it would probably need to refuel or use the whole runway?

Maybe the AA thing is getting old, but any carrier offering a flight to the USA would be good. We've had PK, UY, T5, BA and US.

 

[User0001]

Re: Potential Routes

Its going to be DUB due to the pre-clearance facility.
Apparently, a larger pax uplift at BHX, or an even larger pax uplift+full cargo at MAN just wasnt attractive to AI.

Its all about the short runway and saving pax 15 minutes of queueing at the USA end!!

 

[Hassaan]

Re: Potential Routes

Its going to be DUB due to the pre-clearance facility.
Apparently, a larger pax uplift at BHX, or an even larger pax uplift+full cargo at MAN just wasnt attractive to AI.

Its all about the short runway and saving pax 15 minutes of queueing at the USA end!!

I'm surprised 38m can make a difference for an AI hub. Many airlines have operated to the USA without any problems, these were mainly operated by 757's though.

Is it fully certain that it will be DUB though?

 

[User0001]

Re: Potential Routes

To be honest, I dont know whats going on.

I thought that the idea of a Euro-hub was dead due to them wanting to fully use the new facilities at DEL.

If, and its a big if, AI do open a new Euro-hub, its looking more than likely it will be DUB as the Irish Authorities seem to have canvassed AI more.

Like I say, its the worst decision they could have made, as BHX would have been better pax wise, but MAN would have been even better for full cargo/pax loads.

Ah well, maybe someone else will come?

 

[Brum X]

BHX or DUB for AI Hub

BHX is still very much in with a chance and no mention of MAN

Air India eyes Dublin as its transatlantic hub
26 March 2011
The Irish Times

FLYING:A DELEGATION from Air India is expected to visit Dublin Airport in the next month with a view to making Terminal 2 its transatlantic hub.

Air India used to route five flights a day through Frankfurt en route to North America but has since withdrawn, complaining of a lack of capacity and a high cost per passenger.

Minister for Tourism Leo Varadkar was in India for St Patrick’s Day along with Dublin Airport Authority chief executive Declan Collier to try and secure Terminal 2 as an Air India hub.

The contract with Air India is up for grabs. Seven European airports were considered. Dublin is in the final two. The other is believed to be Birmingham Airport.

Birmingham has a large population base and a big Indian community, but a spokesman for the DAA said it had a “very compelling offer” as landing charges at Dublin Airport were among the lowest in Europe.

T2 also has a Custom and Border Protection pre-clearance facility for the United States. This would mean that Air India passengers could go on to regional airports in the US without having to go through customs again.

The potential move opens up the prospect of direct flights between Ireland and India for the first time creating a new tourism market in both directions.

Varadkar said Irish tourists travelling to Australia and New Zealand would be able to use Delhi rather than Dubai as a stopover point.

Ireland and India are now working on a bilateral Air Services Agreement and freedom rights which allow an airline to pick up and fly passengers from one foreign destination to another. Though India is already a popular tourism destination for Irish visitors, Tourism Ireland has identified India as a huge emerging tourism market with a growing middle class.

It said it will lobby the Department of Justice and Law Reform to facilitate a stopover visa in Ireland for Indian travellers en route to the US.

An office to facilitate Indian visitors to Ireland was opened in February 2004 and a training programme for Indian travel agents, known as Shamrock Agents, has made some of the key players familiar with Ireland. Tourism Ireland believes there is a lot of potential in India’s growing golfing market which already attracts between 500 and 1,000 Indian golfers a year to Ireland, most of whom are among the wealthiest strata of Indian society. Organisers of golf tours believe that market could grow to 10,000 golfers a year within five years.

 

[User0001]

Re: Potential Routes

See, the thing is, this news is only comming from Irish sources.

There doesnt seem to be anything in the Indian press, and even more intregueung is that the Irish Transport Minister recently went to India and apparently had a talks with AI. Funny thing is, on his blog, it was very precise as to who he met, and not once are the managers at AI listed.

I smell publicity rats, hmmmm