Route Development & Rumours

[mullion]

Don`t forget they have had several attempts at MAN once with DC-10 and also B777

 

[A400]

BHX to both DAC and YYZ, both of which would be untested for Biman?!

Unlikely at this point I know. But they have a good chance of working as there would be no direct competition on either routes and would also provide a direct link to both Canada and Bangladesh from the Midlands

 

[Nethercote2019]

I do remember reading that Birmingham‘s catchment area has the largest Bangladeshi population than all other airports ….

 

[Creguk]

I sometimes feel we all go round and round in circles. Getting our hopes up. But as long and the 100 mile radius both north and south offer these services, it seems BHX don’t have a chance.

 

[A400]

I sometimes feel we all go round and round in circles. Getting our hopes up. But as long and the 100 mile radius both north and south offer these services, it seems BHX don’t have a chance.

You say that but Air India operate out of Birmingham whereas they don’t at Manchester also you have Emirates that operate both in South and North Aswell as BHX. So it’s not as bad as you make out. Though more would be nice.

Whilst that might be the case with some airlines. It’s not for all of them.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Yes, I totally agree, what ever deal Birmingham Airport offers to any potential airline, is not good enough, so that's why the west Midlands and Warwickshire residents lose out to Manchester, Gatwick and Heathrow, then all Birmingham Airport can do then is pick up what's left, which is nothing, then you see other Airports expand and passenger numbers increase, where as Birminghams stagnant or increase by a small amount, so when other Airports are increasing by 10,20 and 30%, Birmingham Airport only increases by 10% plus, gets overtaken, then has to play catch up all the time....AndyC

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Unfortunately for Birmingham Airport, they can never strike a good deal with any airline that provides the routes it needs, this is why Birmingham Airport is slowly falling behind other airports, then its catch up time, but because Birmingham Airport management are to slow to react, then its too late, then the excuses start to appear.

Yes, I totally agree, what ever deal Birmingham Airport offers to any potential airline, is not good enough

None of us know what discussions take place between BHX and the airlines. This is all carried out under confidentiality agreements. If there is anyone who posts on F4A who does have inside information, they know all too well to keep their lips sealed.
The role of BHX management is not to try and get every airline to serve the airport, but to provide the highest return on investment to the shareholders.
Yes, BHX could give ludicrous incentives to airlines to operate (which in many cases would amount to paying them to do so), but firstly the shareholders would not stand for it and secondly it would likely see BHX bankrupt in a very short time. If that were to happen, there would be a good chance of BHX becoming a housing/industrial estate.
Be thankful for the services that BHX has. Many UK airports would love to have the regular services that BHX has from major European and long haul airlines. I'm sure that BHX management are working extremely hard in trying to attract new services, but if the airlines don't want to come there is nothing that they can do (other than paying them, with the consequences I mention above) that will attract them.
I too, want to see a resumption of transatlantic services and other long haul, but these negotiations can take years and will be particularly difficult with the world struggling to emerge from the COVID pandemic.

Kevin

 

[Aviador]

Other than published landing and parking charges there is nothing to substantiate the theory that BHX is more expensive than everywhere else. It is common knowledge, we know airlines have tailored personalised contracts with airports that don't even vaguely resemble published charges.

 

[nwoody2001]

It does perplex me when people talk as if airports are providing a public service and are a human right? They simply are not. Money should not be thrown at airlines - especially given the fact that 50% are public - to line the profits of private businesses UNLESS the airport equally benefits.

I'm all for striking deals, but not at all costs and not unless both parties benefit.

yes its been a tough few years but the very fact the airport are expecting between 10-10.5m pax this year is nothing short of a miracle! their airport first passed 9m pax in 2003, it then took us another 12 years to pass the 10m pax mark in 2015. Our peak was just under 13m in 2017. To be back to 80% of our record pax levels whilst still coming out of a global pandemic is a major achievement....

granted progress is never constant and will be bumpy but I'm optimistic of the next few years... our Top 4 airlines (Jet2, Tui, Ryanair and Easyjet) all have their largest ever summer schedules on sale at the airport and as we sit here now, there is no reason to assume such growth wont continue...

 

[A400]

I agree with everything you say @Kevin Farnell. You don’t know what BHX are doing. My guess is they are talking to airlines. Users can’t say they are not doing enough as in my view there’s been a fair bit of good news from BHX so they have done “enough” to encourage airlines to add new routes and expand on existing ones.

 

[IanFarquharson]

Of course will do deals, Tom S did actually say that he is going to the US in May as was confident of getting a positive result but any deal must go good for both BHX and the airline concerned.
BHX has to make a profit so getting the balance right is a must, I have never bought the story that BHX is more expensive that most other airports they are just realistic and don't go throwing 'marketing money' to airlines like other airports (well covered on this forum).
I can recall being at a meeting where Paul Kehoe quoted a figure of how much this certain airport gave a carrier to start from there, a totally eye watering amount !

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Ian, how much was the figure....AndyC

 

[route66]

Of course will do deals, Tom S did actually say that he is going to the US in May as was confident of getting a positive result but any deal must go good for both BHX and the airline concerned.
BHX has to make a profit so getting the balance right is a must, I have never bought the story that BHX is more expensive that most other airports they are just realistic and don't go throwing 'marketing money' to airlines like other airports (well covered on this forum).
I can recall being at a meeting where Paul Kehoe quoted a figure of how much this certain airport gave a carrier to start from there, a totally eye watering amount !

.....but presumably the "eye watering amount" was worth the risk.

 

[Ray Finkle]

A few years ago there was an article (can't find it now) with figures suggesting that BHX was the 4th most expensive airport in the world to operate an aircraft. I may be mistaken but I think it was taking numbers for just one type of aircraft and possibly using the published fees which in reality (as already said) will be different for each airline and their needs.

I guess things like that can stick in peoples minds, even though it may actually be nowhere near reality.

Only my opinion but I'd say that if BHX was that expensive across the board we wouldn't see the likes of Wizz, Ryanair and easyjet.

how much was the figure

A lot.

 

[Llandudno]

It’s important to point out airports don’t ‘pay’ for airlines to fly there, but instead they offer subsidies on things such as advertising, reductions on fees or other sundries.

In terms if Paul Kehoes comments, I know exactly which ones people are referring to and frankly it was never proven to be the case.

But as someone pointed out, it’s a matter of whether it’s worth it.

Kehoe and Screen say they are against subsidies, but the fact is there will be some offered no matter how they protest otherwise, and the investment that comes in from such a flight can make it worth it. In the case of Hainan at MAN, even *if* they were offered hefty subsidies, the economic benefit of the flights has seemingly been very worth while. The flight seemed to do well and has only stopped purely because the majority of international travel to China has stopped.

 

[IanFarquharson]

It’s important to point out airports don’t ‘pay’ for airlines to fly there, but instead they offer subsidies on things such as advertising, reductions on fees or other sundries.

In terms if Paul Kehoes comments, I know exactly which ones people are referring to and frankly it was never proven to be the case.

But as someone pointed out, it’s a matter of whether it’s worth it.

Kehoe and Screen say they are against subsidies, but the fact is there will be some offered no matter how they protest otherwise, and the investment that comes in from such a flight can make it worth it. In the case of Hainan at MAN, even *if* they were offered hefty subsidies, the economic benefit of the flights has seemingly been very worth while. The flight seemed to do well and has only stopped purely because the majority of international travel to China has stopped.

It wasn't Hainan and who mentioned Manchester ?

 

[tompo]

It’s important to point out airports don’t ‘pay’ for airlines to fly there, but instead they offer subsidies on things such as advertising, reductions on fees or other sundries.

In terms if Paul Kehoes comments, I know exactly which ones people are referring to and frankly it was never proven to be the case.

But as someone pointed out, it’s a matter of whether it’s worth it.

Kehoe and Screen say they are against subsidies, but the fact is there will be some offered no matter how they protest otherwise, and the investment that comes in from such a flight can make it worth it. In the case of Hainan at MAN, even *if* they were offered hefty subsidies, the economic benefit of the flights has seemingly been very worth while. The flight seemed to do well and has only stopped purely because the majority of international travel to China has stopped.

Is Kehoe back at the helm again?

 

[IanFarquharson]

Is Kehoe back at the helm again?

No he left BHX and went to Gulf Air but may have retired now ?

 

[Brum X]

I liked Paul, he used to reply to all my emails.

As for the guy we have now, I couldn't even tell you his name without looking it up, he isn't visible like Paul was

 

[Llandudno]

It wasn't Hainan and who mentioned Manchester ?

I thought that was the one you are taking about as Kehoe was very vocal about that at the time and given the furore that was on this forum at the time, I thought that was the one you were taking about