Route Development & Rumours

[jfy1999]

I believe Hong Kong Airlines are a subsidiary of Hainan - who seem to be focused on Manchester. Would they be willing to compete with Cathay Pacific on MAN-HKG?

I'd be interested to find out who the route development team have been talking to in Singapore.

 

[Ray Finkle]

If we think back to last year there was that Tweet showing a picture of Mr Screen making a presentation. On the board in the background Hong Kong Airlines were one of the airlines mentioned.

We shall see.

 

[jfy1999]

Having started flights from Edinburgh to Stewart/Newburgh (SWF) yesterday, Norwegian are reported to be looking at further destinations from SWF.

Could this bring BHX and MAN back into their long haul plans?

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2017/June/12/NorAir_destinations-12Jun17.html

 

[TM3]

Re: Singapore, I recently flew on Singapore Airlines' HOU-MAN service and it was excellent. As they need to stop somewhere to get to most locations in North America I wonder if there is a chance for a 5th freedom route there.

If they offered some good gateway connections to the US I would definitely use them. How about SIN-BHX-BOS where they could link in with JetBlue for USA transcons?

 

[CL44]

I would say that as SQ have a presence in MAN (and have had for quite a while) that any future developments on a 5th freedom basis would be there instead of BHX. I would love to see SQ or most other Far East carriers coming into BHX but realistically it would have to be one that does not have any flights into MAN to make it work. The problem BHX has is also one of its advantages:- it's position in the UK. 90 miles south of Manchester and 110 miles north of London just does not equate to Airlines crying out to position flights here. LHR covers the south of the Country and MAN covers the north of the Country well enough for the Airlines to sell and have distinct services without involving an Airport in the Middle. Unfortunately this is a fact of life nowadays.

While BHX can offer fantastic links around the Country (as long as the motorways are not blocked!) this causes the big disadvantage as well. Why pay a premium into BHX when you can pay to go into either MAN or LHR and still have access to the motorways to get to your final destination. Please don't get me wrong on this. I would love to have all Airlines currently flying into LHR to offer a service into BHX (it would make my working day a whole lot easier) but the practicalities are that BHX just has not got that sort of pull with the Airlines. I am most impressed with the variety of Airlines we have got here and hope to see more in the future but we HAVE to offer a unique selling point to them to attract them to position a flight into BHX. Prestige and being seen to be here do not pay the bills. If an Airline is not making money on a service then it will vanish (AA / US / any other Airline you care to think off spring to mind).

Shareholders want a return on their investment and if that return is not forthcoming then services will not start. Can BHX offer SQ a good return on services going onto the US and back to Singapore? Honest answer is I don't know, but when you consider some of the services that we have had that left after a year or so then the answer would appear to be no.

 

[User001]

I think the question about a potential BHX-USA flight on SQ isn't just about BHX, but also if SQ actually want to serve the potential USA route.

BOS has been mentioned, but, I'm not aware of SQ having any desire to serve BOS. I believe they will serve EWR/LAX direct again with an A350-900ULR, and the only other route I have seen rumoured is Chicago but that could just as easily be reached via a Pacific routing. However, a U.K. Stop over could prove beneficial for SQ based on the fact moving SIN-IAH to MAN seems to have been an unexpected success for SQ, loads are up and now the A350 is on the route, I am lead to believe yield is up too. Who would have thought MAN could provide those returns on a route to IAH over DME?

 

[58terminus]

RD Team in Singapore !

How does a simple post like this develop into SQ SIN-BHX-BOS?
You can tell it's the quiet season for rumours.

 

[nwoody2001]

I'm equally confused 58terminals.

CL44, care to elaborate?! What does 5th freedom rights have to do with SQ coming to BHX?! And why is a special offer needed? EK and QR seem to be making BHX work!

 

[Ianbutty]

I agree with CL we are not going to compete on destination to destination long haul. Dubai and Doha feed hubs so play a different role. The only exception is if BHX was to develop a niche market as it has done for countless years to Turkmenistan and once looked feasible when it had links to other former Soviet republics. Secondary airports in locations undeserved in the UK and indeed Europe. In particular I still believe that South America is a treasure trove and that Africa could provide the next significant market. There are parts of India that can be opened up. And Japan is still London only.

It is easy to look to bejing, Hong Kong and Singapore and belief me I would love to see them linked to BHX, but we are stuck in the middle and as such it does not make sense just now for such links to work.

As Norwegian have shown by opening routes to Hartford and newburgh, long haul can arrive anywhere, we just need to think a little outside the box and try something new.

Finally, let's also complete the Europe network. Stills dozens of airports to go.

 

[58terminus]

Finally, let's also complete the Europe network. Stills dozens of airports to go.

And increase frequencies on the many European routes that are served only 3 or 4 times a week.

 

[BHXsupporter]

CL44 I don't like to concentrate on any negative geography of being almost midway twixt MAN and LHR. I truly believe (we'll have a strong inkling!) that BHX CAN support long-haul services by taking passengers not only from the 'Birmingham conurbation' but from Derby/Loughborough/Leicester/Nottingham/Grantham in the NE, Northampton/Milton Keynes/Bedford in the SE, Gloucester/Cheltenham/Tewkesbury even Bristol in the SW and Shrewsbury/Wrexham/Stafford/Stoke in the NE. Nos. in both MAN and LHR would be affected but passengers would support because of reduced travel time and the environmental benefits would be positive. What I can accept is the challenge of 'taking the plunge' but surely BHX staff should be polling these areas to seek out potential demand figures to make this happen. Keep positive and we'll get there.

Meanwhile I have to go to LHR to get to BOS soon - yuck!

 

[nwoody2001]

I agree with CL we are not going to compete on destination to destination long haul. Dubai and Doha feed hubs so play a different role. The only exception is if BHX was to develop a niche market as it has done for countless years to Turkmenistan and once looked feasible when it had links to other former Soviet republics. Secondary airports in locations undeserved in the UK and indeed Europe. In particular I still believe that South America is a treasure trove and that Africa could provide the next significant market. There are parts of India that can be opened up. And Japan is still London only.

It is easy to look to bejing, Hong Kong and Singapore and belief me I would love to see them linked to BHX, but we are stuck in the middle and as such it does not make sense just now for such links to work.

As Norwegian have shown by opening routes to Hartford and newburgh, long haul can arrive anywhere, we just need to think a little outside the box and try something new.

Finally, let's also complete the Europe network. Stills dozens of airports to go.

Well you say with one breathe that Dubai and Doha work because they are major hubs but say that other such links couldn't work from BHX.

Beijing and Atlanta are the 2 largest hub airports in the world, and the likes of Hong Kong, shanghai and Singapore are up there too. I agree that we will struggle to make long haul point-to-point routes work fro. Bhx, but I think we should focus on making sure BHX is connected to at least the largest hubs I the world!

I hope that you are indeed wrong, and with the BHX RD team having been to Singapore 3 times in the last year, it would appear that they think they have a chance...?!

 

[Jerry]

With the point to point routes I think for BHX it depends what type of airline operates them. An airline like BA which is premium heavy might struggle on certain routes from BHX yet an airline like Norwegian or Thomas Cook might do better as generally they would target leisure traffic. Maybe in the long run for BHX trying to persuade Thomas Cook to operate long haul from BHX might be part of the way to go to expand the long haul routes.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Maybe in the long run for BHX trying to persuade Thomas Cook to operate long haul from BHX might be part of the way to go to expand the long haul routes.

Getting another based long haul carrier is the key, the issue is who. Norwegian could have been perfect using a 787 for the likes of Florida and a MAX for the thinner US east coast routes. The general opinion is that Thomas Cook aren't interested at the moment, maybe one day.

Although it won't be for a few years there is also the potential for Jet2 to expand into long haul, although if they do it will most likely be heavily weighted towards the holiday business. The other option is Monarch who are said to be looking at some 787's.

For a start I'd take a second based Thomson 787.

 

[Brum X]

And another Canadian airline would be nice. Westjet or Air Canada Rouge

 

[Ianbutty]

The problem with hubs is that they work if they are well connected and we'll located against the airport of origin. Qatar and Dubai are perfectly located to serve a very wide range of European airports as a hub to the far east. Go much further to a hub and the connection choices are more limited. Undoubtedly Atlanta and Hong kong are remarkably well connected, but is that to destinations that people in the bhx catchment would want to go to given the huge numbers of seats already available from Heathrow, Manchester and indeed our euro favoured hubs like Amsterdam and Frankfurt? Given how competitive and confident the industry is at the moment someone would be flying bhx to Atlanta and Hong Kong already if it was viable.

I honestly believe in BHX and it's associated city as an aviation and economic powerhouse and the latter will grow into a very major world city. But the obvious very long haul hub links I cannot see just yet, hence the need to focus on point to point, and enjoy the excellent hubs that we currently use to connect the city with over 330 cities and towns in the world.

 

[CL44]

CL44 I don't like to concentrate on any negative geography of being almost midway twixt MAN and LHR. I truly believe (we'll have a strong inkling!) that BHX CAN support long-haul services by taking passengers not only from the 'Birmingham conurbation' but from Derby/Loughborough/Leicester/Nottingham/Grantham in the NE, Northampton/Milton Keynes/Bedford in the SE, Gloucester/Cheltenham/Tewkesbury even Bristol in the SW and Shrewsbury/Wrexham/Stafford/Stoke in the NE. Nos. in both MAN and LHR would be affected but passengers would support because of reduced travel time and the environmental benefits would be positive. What I can accept is the challenge of 'taking the plunge' but surely BHX staff should be polling these areas to seek out potential demand figures to make this happen. Keep positive and we'll get there.

Meanwhile I have to go to LHR to get to BOS soon - yuck!

I fully accept what you are saying regarding passengers from these areas flying from BHX instead of MAN and LHR, BUT and this is the big one, most passengers will look at a bottom line price as their defining decision maker. People in this day and age will look at how much is left in their pocket after paying for their tickets instead of thinking about using a closer Airport. If you had the chance to fly out to BOS for £2-300 cheaper from LHR instead of a connecting flight from BHX which would you do (as long as you are paying for this trip yourself that is). Money talks for most people and given the chance to save a few bob most people will take that chance even if it means travelling for an hour or two to get the Airport.

With regards to 5th freedom rights If SQ were able to sell BHX-BOS (and vice versa) this gives more of a chance for the Airline to make money on the route. At the end of the day Airlines (and investors in general) want a return on their services. If there is no return coming back to them why should an Airline put an Aircraft on a route where they will not make anything back?

 

[User001]

Aer Southeast to start a 3 weekly BHX-WAT from 24th July.

 

[jfy1999]

Interesting. Having done a quick search it looks like Lipican Aer is the operator but Aer Southeast is the brand they will use for the flights.

I wish them well but one wonders how they will perform with only one month's lead in time. I can't access their website either

How many carriers have attempted this route now?

 

[jfy1999]

Found out why I couldn't access the website - flights don't go on sale until 9am tomorrow.

They will use a Saab 340. Prices start from €79 (nearly £70) one way.