Route Development & Rumours

[Brum X]

I still think that we need Easyjet.

Not only could they bolster capacity on the sun routes but they could also fill some gaping holes in the network such as Lisbon, Stockholm, Gibraltar, Athens and Olbia they could also possibly even add the likes of Bilbao, Basle and Seville. Routes that are little more than a dream at the moment.

+1

 

[Jerry]

Now that PF are off, i wonder if VY will consider expanding at BHX once again. As we know since ZB left we are down on some of the sun routes like ALC/AGP/TFS so VY would be the best candidate in my opinion and they have been around for a while now and part of One World.

Looking at their routes out of Alicante, Malaga and PMI Cardiff is there only UK destination. Considering how popular those 3 are that is surprising.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I still remember that quote along the lines of "We have a habit of backing the wrong airline."

Vueling tried and failed, as did Norwegian (not just at Birmingham mind). It now looks as if it's the beginning of the end for Primera so I want to know that lessons are finally being learned, sadly I have my doubts.

Easyjet are well known, well established, would hit the ground running without the need to get a brand name into the minds of the public and have the potential to grow quickly and cover destinations that we so desperately need.

I won't hold my breath

 

[Coathanger16]

I still think that we need Easyjet.

Not only could they bolster capacity on the sun routes but they could also fill some gaping holes in the network such as Lisbon, Stockholm, Gibraltar, Athens and Olbia. They could also possibly even add the likes of Bilbao, Basle and Seville, routes that are little more than a dream at the moment.

Easyjet are well known, well established, would hit the ground running without the need to get a brand name into the minds of the public and have the potential to grow quickly and cover destinations that we so desperately need.

I'm afraid with Birmingham being the UK's second city and BHX being the 3rd largest airport outside London, if easyJet aren't already here there will be a reason for it which I suspect is more political than business, and that is unlikely to change

 

[Brum X]

I still remember that quote along the lines of "We have a habit of backing the wrong airline."

Vueling tried and failed, as did Norwegian (not just at Birmingham mind). It now looks as if it's the beginning of the end for Primera so I want to know that lessons are finally being learned, sadly I have my doubts.

Easyjet are well known, well established, would hit the ground running without the need to get a brand name into the minds of the public and have the potential to grow quickly and cover destinations that we so desperately need.

I won't hold my breath

However Ray i think we need to remember what a blood bath S17 was and i really think the reason why Vueling/Norweigan didnt keep there routes at BHX was Monarch was still massive and Jet2 arrived and as we know something had to give.

In S18 we are in a totally different environment, Monarch have gone and soon the new Primera Air base. Jet2 are now the new kid on the block however we are down on these popular routes so yes while i agree Easyjet would be fantastic, i also think if Vueling tried again it could be a success. But what do i know, LOL

 

[Ianbutty]

I still remember that quote along the lines of "We have a habit of backing the wrong airline."

Vueling tried and failed, as did Norwegian (not just at Birmingham mind). It now looks as if it's the beginning of the end for Primera so I want to know that lessons are finally being learned, sadly I have my doubts.

Easyjet are well known, well established, would hit the ground running without the need to get a brand name into the minds of the public and have the potential to grow quickly and cover destinations that we so desperately need.

I won't hold my breath

The British love establishment and as Jet2 have proven, Easyjet at BHX will be a huge success. As you said earlier Ray, they could fill the gaps and I think make a viable business I'm doing so. After all they took the cobwebs off Southend and it is a big success that Flybe and Ryanair could not resist.

Come on Easyjet and sign up. You know you want to....

 

[Jerry]

Easyjet are well known, well established, would hit the ground running without the need to get a brand name into the minds of the public and have the potential to grow quickly and cover destinations that we so desperately need.

Yes they would but they would also want to operate routes like Paris CDG, Amsterdam, Edinburgh and Glasgow routes which are Flybe's bread and butter at BHX and as an airline. I suppose the airport would have to ask is there enough demand on these routes for both airlines to thrive and are we willing as an airport to drive away an airline that provides a lot of connectivity and unique routes for an airline that's let's face it if they wanted to base at BHX they would same with other airports like Cardiff and to attract them would mean offering a very cheap deal and there will be always the possibility at the first bump in the road they'd retreat back to MAN, BRS and LTN leaving BHX for the worse.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Was not MyTravelLite BHX's first low cost airline? It lasted about three years I think.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I suppose the airport would have to ask is there enough demand on these routes for both airlines to thrive and are we willing as an airport to drive away an airline that provides a lot of connectivity and unique routes

It's a very good point but for me, that's business.

As for Flybe, I think it's probably best that I keep my feelings towards them to myself

 

[Jerry]

As for Flybe, I think it's probably best that I keep my feelings towards them to myself

Just a general question but are Flybe considered by some to be an inferior version of Easyjet? Kind of like getting own brand cola if a shop has run out of Coke. It's just on social media in South Wales Easyjet as an airline seem to be held in awe and for many Flybe is considered inferior even though I've found them to be very good. I was wondering if it was similar in the Midlands?

 

[58terminus]

Just a general question but are Flybe considered by some to be an inferior version of Easyjet? Kind of like getting own brand cola if a shop has run out of Coke. It's just on social media in South Wales Easyjet as an airline seem to be held in awe and for many Flybe is considered inferior even though I've found them to be very good. I was wondering if it was similar in the Midlands?

It would be hard to fail after you have had the free advertising of a number of half hour TV series' at peak time on a main channel showing how nice and efficient you are. With that kind of free exposure even Primera would boom.(maybe not). I have also found Flybe good but people have this thing about prop aircraft. For short flights it really does not matter.

 

[58terminus]

As for Flybe, I think it's probably best that I keep my feelings towards them to myself

Is that speaking as a passenger or an enthusiast Ray?
I have often wondered if their big route expansion a few years ago put off airlines who might have been near
to expanding or starting from BHX only for FLYBE to cull them a few months later. By then i guess the others would have moved on?

 

[rollo]

Flybe are a hard airline to read and always seem to be in a state of flux to me.
They seem to be continually restructuring with evey new plan promising a better tomorrow but tomorrow never comes and they continue to struggle financially which will catch up with them in one way or another, remember Stobart recently looking at buying them before walking away.
On the face of it they have a decent route structure avoiding pretty much competing with the likes of EasyJet and Ryanair etc as there would only be one winner although they seem to do ok against Easy on the Bhx/Belfast route.
As things stand they are an important airline to BHX and many other regional airports.

Where they end up I've no idea but for the record I did use them for business purposes a few times to Frankfurt and Dusseldorf and they were fine but that's a few years ago so maybe not too relevant to today.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Just a general question but are Flybe considered by some to be an inferior version of Easyjet? Kind of like getting own brand cola if a shop has run out of Coke. It's just on social media in South Wales Easyjet as an airline seem to be held in awe and for many Flybe is considered inferior even though I've found them to be very good. I was wondering if it was similar in the Midlands?

Not at all, well not as far as I am concerned. I've never used Flybe so cannot comment on their product, I know people who think very highly of them whereas others have had just one too many flights cancelled and now avoid them at all costs.

For me they became unreliable a few years ago. New routes to the likes of Oslo, Porto and Reykjavik only to be chopped a season later. We then had round two with Luxembourg and Rotterdam which ended up with the same fate. How could anyone confidently plan a city break for the following summer with them without knowing whether the route will actually operate?

As rollo has said above they also seem to be constantly restructuring with a new plan every few years. As a result Birmingham has seen capacity cut this summer of around 10% with big decreases on key routes such as Milan and Berlin. I understand that they may still have financial issues and I really hope that things get better but that doesn't help the future growth of Birmingham Airport. There is no sentiment in business but if Flybe are as good as people say they will be able to hold their own.

Flybe as the biggest airline at Birmingham carry around 1.75 million ppa. Easyjet at Bristol carry circa 4.5 million pax and I think I saw that they're heading for 5 million pax next year at MAN.

Maybe that's why I'm not in route development

 

[JF57]

Indeed Flybe are important to BHX but they need to be reliable both in the short and long term. I think they operate from too many airports. The sudden rush into DSA which has then been reduced year on year since cannot be helping them, for example.

 

[Coathanger16]

I've flown with Flybe 3 times now (twice on the props and once on the E-Jet) - no cancellations and no other major complaints. The biggest problem I had is that I travel with a cabin baggage small suitcase - fits fine on Airbus/Boeing and the E-Jets but is too large to fit in the overhead lockers on the prop. However the cabin crew were very helpful in securing it in an empty seat and telling me where it was.

Perhaps over the next year or two with Flybe getting rid of the E195's and having reduced the number of props in recent years, it will force them to focus on their core markets and we'll see an end to these one season wonders.

Yes they would but they would also want to operate routes like Paris CDG, Amsterdam, Edinburgh and Glasgow routes which are Flybe's bread and butter at BHX and as an airline.

I'm not so sure. Currently the only domestic routes that easyJet and Flybe compete on from GLA/EDI are Belfast and Jersey. Also if they don't serve EDI/GLA from MAN, I don't see why easyJet would from BHX.

As for CDG/AMS, easyJet only offer 1 or 2 daily flights to each from MAN - doesn't really compare to the often 5+ daily flights from Flybe. I think there's enough demand on CDG/AMS to fit a daily A320 in there as well with relatively little impact on Flybe.

I don't think easyJet are the kind of airline to open a base somewhere to then close it a few years later if things were tough. Much more likely for them to undercut the competition and force them out. The only place easyJet's network overlaps with Flybe's (with the exception of AMS/CDG) is on routes that flybe has a very small presence - Berlin, Milan, Lyon, etc, so I wouldn't be too concerned about them forcing Flybe out. Ryanair has been stagnant at BHX for years now. How would the arrival of easyJet force Ryanair to act? Would the try to compete and expand? Or would they reduce and eventually withdraw from BHX? If Wizz Air currently has any plans to expand at BHX might easyJet kill that off? Likewise with Vueling.

Between:

Jet2
Ryanair
Thomas Cook
Tui
Wizz Air
Vueling
Blue Air

We have enough based airlines or airlines that could open a base at BHX to facilitate any growth that easyJet could offer. Do we really want to add another and risk losing one or more of our existing airlines?

 

[IanFarquharson]

I asked a guy on Pprune who works for Primera and his reply was;

I think it’s highly likely that Primera are going to pull the entire BHX operation.
It’s incredibly sad, for the pax with booking that’ll be lost and for the crews which will be forced down to STN or to KEF etc etc.
However I guess it’s better to pull it rather than keep it and lose money.

 

[IanFarquharson]

I agree we need easyjet but they have consistantly said there are no decent yiels from the Midlands and this is why they pulled the EMA base. They will have over 20 a/c in the NW, 15 a/c in SW and 100 a/c in SE so we are surrounded by easyjet bases so a BHX base would dilute these bases. However, my own view is as Ray points out still so much scope for them at BHX and as we have a relationship of sorts with them BHX should be looking to make a deal which suits both sides. The last deal easyjet wanted was totally unaccepatble to BHX.

 

[Coathanger16]

The last deal easyjet wanted was totally unaccepatble to BHX.

Perhaps IF we get a new CEO this is something they could work on...

they have consistantly said there are no decent yiels from the Midlands

I wonder why it is that easyJet found they couldn't get acceptable yields from the Midlands yet many other airlines are able to... What destinations would an easyJet base at BHX serve? The main sun & sea destinations - yes too many airlines and too much capacity could dilute yields, but after the loss of Monarch, Norwegian & Vueling aren't we in a situation of not enough capacity at the moment? As Ray has pointed out there are many links that are currently unserved that easyJet could easily provide - with no competition yield shouldn't be an issue surely?

 

[mullion]

Ian it will be more than 20 in NW England next summer as it 17 at Manchester alone
and then I think 9 at LPL also I think that BHX now want to protect Jet2 as they have
committed to them