Route Development & Rumours

[58terminus]

Probably coming across as a "back seat moderator" here but I'm wondering whether the Biman conversation should be moved to this thread? At the moment it seems to be all based on past history and what people would like to have happened rather than any current rumours?

I don't think it should be on this thread either.

 

[GliderPilot]

Can we keep in mind this is a forum guys, used for discussion, whether there is any material to the discussion or not is and should remain irrelevant

Not one to stand by and watch this forum take the stance other forums take to light hearted discussion

 

[jfy1999]

Can we keep in mind this is a forum guys, used for discussion, whether there is any material to the discussion or not is and should remain irrelevant

Not one to stand by and watch this forum take the stance other forums take to light hearted discussion

Fair point.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Can we keep in mind this is a forum guys, used for discussion, whether there is any material to the discussion or not is and should remain irrelevant

Not one to stand by and watch this forum take the stance other forums take to light hearted discussion

I agree, there are varying levels of interest amongst people and we must try and be as respectful as possible to all.

There may be some who only wish to read about concrete rumours and/or official announcements and there is nothing wrong with that but on the other hand there are others who wish to discuss an opinion about why XYZ could/should be served and the reasons why. There is really no right or wrong and if anybody finds no interest in a particular post then it's easy enough to just skip it and move on, other people however may have an interest.

In the past we've had 'wish list' threads and others similar but the lines between that and the RD thread often become very blurry with it then becoming difficult to locate information posted previously.

I'm not saying it's wrong but one thing that tends to annoy people is bumping long dormant threads as it can get peoples hopes up only to then be left disappointed. As long as we don't go to far into the realms of fantasy this thread is as good as any to put forward a solid case for why a route could be served and potential suitor(s) for that route.

Bangladesh is an interesting one and if the stats on Wiki are to be believed (not the greatest source I know but these numbers are from the 2011 census) the Midlands has the highest Bangladeshi population outside of the capital (52,477). I realise that doesn't necessarily mean that a route will instantly work but when you add in the East Midlands community (13,259) that is a sizeable pool of potential customers.

British Bangladeshis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think direct flights to India should be the focus at the moment with getting the Delhi frequency back up and adding Mumbai in the near future top priorities. When it comes to the Far East maybe they need to forget the delusions of Bangkok, Beijing and Singapore and concentrate solely on Hong Kong. The interest is there, we just need an airport that will not take no for an answer and will do whatever it takes to make it happen.

 

[SRDey]

Probably coming across as a "back seat moderator" here but I'm wondering whether the Biman conversation should be moved to this thread? At the moment it seems to be all based on past history and what people would like to have happened rather than any current rumours?

Given Bimans track record I think even an official announcement from them might be better off in this thread

I do apologies I am the guilty one who started the conversation on the Biman Thread if I would have known I would have stared it on here I’m still new to this forum and slightly nervous with what I post as I’m slightly shy . The main reason I stared the the convo on the thread was after reading the off topic discussions and opinions on the Emirates thread after people where talking about Emirates using BHX “Scissor Hub” for flights between Dubai-North America and then completely went off topic talking about how other Airlines should really consider using BHX as an “Scissor Hub” for Asia-North America and then about BA & Virgin starting TATL flights from Birmingham vice-versa . Reading all the off topic conversations on the Emirates Thread about people’s thought and opinions on BHX as a “Scissor Hub” Asia-North America was quite interesting and reminded me of how we where close to becoming a “Scissor Hub” about 4-5 years ago with Biman Bangladesh. Yes I know it was 4-5 years ago but it’s one of Birmingham Airports great mysteries as to why nothing came about. Both Birmingham Airport and Biman Bangladesh where hyping the Dhaka-Birmingham-New York JFK route and it had the potential to do well not only that they planned Dhaka-Birmingham-Toronto as well but then all of a sudden BANG!!! nothing started and it everything about the route just vanished into thin air like nothing was ever mentioned at all. It’s just really strange as to why no news or explanation was give why the route fell flat which is absolutely ridiculous what’s worse is even Primera gave reasons as to why they delayed and even cancelled their USA & Canada route from Birmingham. Now I know a lot of you may not care or think it’s too old but it’s something which I think need to bought up and a route Birmingham needs be it JFK or No JFK a Birmingham to Bangladesh route should be on the cards and I think a Dhaka to Birmingham route could do well and I think the Bangladeshi Community in the Midlands deserve it.

 

[58terminus]

There may be some who only wish to read about concrete rumours and/or official announcements and there is nothing wrong with that but on

'I guess the fact is as there have been no concrete rumours, let alone any official announcements of any significance for some time
(excluding ballet.electric busses.milk shakes etc) only route cuts and rumours that suggest something may or may not happen in 2/3 years time that some peoples frustration is beginning to spill over onto the forum..
We will all take a chill pill.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I do apologies I am the guilty one who started the conversation on the Biman Thread if I would have known I would have stared it on here I’m still new to this forum and slightly nervous with what I post as I’m slightly shy

There is no need to apologise at all. We are a friendly bunch on here and sometimes all that's needed is a little nudge but please don't take it to heart. We were all new once

nothing started and it everything about the route just vanished into thin air like nothing was ever mentioned at all. It’s just really strange as to why no news or explanation was give why the route fell flat which is absolutely ridiculous what’s worse is even Primera gave reasons as to why they delayed and even cancelled their USA & Canada route from Birmingham.

Generally when an airline commences, or an airport gets, a new route it's shouted from the rooftops and plastered all over the media (with BHX being the exception these days) but when a route is dropped it goes quietly, with little or no mention at all away from forums such as this. Companies, and not just in aviation, like to crow about successes but barely mention failures.

Primera was a different story as they arrived in a blaze of glory and went bust almost as quickly. That is bound to get more publicity than the ending of a single route and as they went bust statements had to be made.

As for a scissor hub, I'm not sure that BHX has the facilities at the moment. A transit flight could work but I think it may struggle with any more than that. Air India tried a scissor hub in Germany and soon dropped it as the costs were so high. With modern aircraft being able to fly increasingly longer routes direct I think this will be the way forward.

Going west the top priorities must be to regain New York and Toronto and that could be where the likes of Westjet and JetBlue come in, both of which have held talks with BHX. I'd love to think that there could be something from Delta or Virgin, even just to test the water with our Flybe hub, but I'm not convinced. As has been pointed out on another thread there are more questions than answers at the moment when it comes to Flybe so we'll just have to see how things pan out.

 

[58terminus]

Primera was a different story as they arrived in a blaze of glory and went bust almost as quickly.

You have mentioned the P airline Ray! Now i need to take 2 pills!

 

[Ray Finkle]

You have mentioned the P airline Ray! Now i need to take 2 pills!

The cardinal sin.

One of you can whip me as I walk shamefully through the streets of Tamworth.

 

[58terminus]

One of you can whip me

Thread drift?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Thread drift?

Right! Back on topic you lot!

 

[GliderPilot]

I really would love to know if Primera would have prospered at BHX if they hadn't ran into so many issues and then gone bust, so much promise but it bit off more than it could chew

 

[Ray Finkle]

I really would love to know if Primera would have prospered at BHX if they hadn't ran into so many issues and then gone bust, so much promise but it bit off more than it could chew

From what I have heard initial forward bookings to NY and Toronto were quite healthy but Boston seemed to struggle. Obviously we don't know about the yields, anyone can fill a plane but it has to be done profitably.

Unfortunately as soon as they started delaying and cancelling flights the writing was on the wall. Sad really as those who did get to travel on the A321 gave very good reviews.

 

[SRDey]

There is no need to apologise at all. We are a friendly bunch on here and sometimes all that's needed is a little nudge but please don't take it to heart. We were all new once



Generally when an airline commences, or an airport gets, a new route it's shouted from the rooftops and plastered all over the media (with BHX being the exception these days) but when a route is dropped it goes quietly, with little or no mention at all away from forums such as this. Companies, and not just in aviation, like to crow about successes but barely mention failures.

Primera was a different story as they arrived in a blaze of glory and went bust almost as quickly. That is bound to get more publicity than the ending of a single route and as they went bust statements had to be made.

As for a scissor hub, I'm not sure that BHX has the facilities at the moment. A transit flight could work but I think it may struggle with any more than that. Air India tried a scissor hub in Germany and soon dropped it as the costs were so high. With modern aircraft being able to fly increasingly longer routes direct I think this will be the way forward.

Going west the top priorities must be to regain New York and Toronto and that could be where the likes of Westjet and JetBlue come in, both of which have held talks with BHX. I'd love to think that there could be something from Delta or Virgin, even just to test the water with our Flybe hub, but I'm not convinced. As has been pointed out on another thread there are more questions than answers at the moment when it comes to Flybe so we'll just have to see how things pan out.

@Ray Finkle Thank You very much you have definitely been very kind and wonderful .

I agree with your points 100% I think all we need to do is treat BHX with a lot TLC with everything.

Let’s just hope if Biman decide to start a Birmingham route it will be soon as they can I know South Asia has always been popular from BHX and I think it will do well. I still remember back in 2012 when announced Qatar Airways they wanted launch Birmingham for that for that same year then nothing really happened and we all thought it fell flat but then towards the end of 2015 beginning of 2016 they officially and announced and then launched the route during the 2016 Easter Holidays I do hope it’s like a Qatar Airways situation with Biman they launch when they see fit and feel ready.

As for Primera (The P word ) I’ll be honest I knew they where dodgy the moment I heard about them. All I can say is they are by far the biggest and worst OddBall Airline that we have ever attracted (Even worse than Comtel Air ) all I can say Good Riddance and think Birmingham Airport was saved the moment they collapsed.

If Birmingham was Bigger and much and planned much better I think we could have made for a great “Scissor Hub” but then again they can be expensive and for a lot of people it’s not worth it would be great and of course Direct if defiantly the way we need to go and we need to Aim for guys. BTW Didn’t they make that security transit area specifically for the Biman Bangladesh flight but when I saw it for the first time in August 2014 I thought thank god they didn’t start I don’t a 314 or so passengers would be able to transit through a very small glass area with only 2 metal detectors and 2 scanners and I have also never seen it used if it has or is used please do tell me if you have been through or seen anyone use the transit faculty.

Indeed let’s hope we can get out TALT back at Birmingham I think Delta and Jet Blue could do well from Birmingham I just think we need to do Market Tests, Research and better and more in your face advertising ask the everyday people of Birmingham what they want to see and feed back to the Airport and Airlines. Yes would love to see Virgin give Birmingham a chance even though they are adamant Birmingham will never work it would be great if they ever decided to start Long Hall to see them do a Mumbai, Delhi and New York route they could uses A330’s, 787’s or even bases their A340-600 in Birmingham and use it for those three routes. As for FlyBe TBH I don’t know or fully understand what’s going on I would like a very simple version explained so that way at least I will understand.

 

[Matt995]

@Ray Finkle
Yes would love to see Virgin give Birmingham a chance even though they are adamant Birmingham will never work it would be great if they ever decided to start Long Hall to see them do a Mumbai, Delhi and New York route they could uses A330’s, 787’s or even bases their A340-600 in Birmingham and use it for those three routes. As for FlyBe TBH I don’t know or fully understand what’s going on I would like a very simple version explained so that way at least I will understand.

No chance of Virgin long haul, and will be impossible to see a A340-600 at Birmingham, the aircrafts wheelbase is too long for the airports taxiways!!

 

[SRDey]

No chance of Virgin long haul, and will be impossible to see a A340-600 at Birmingham, the aircrafts wheelbase is too long for the airports taxiways!!

The Virgin scenario is hypothetical let’s just dream a little. The people who designed Birmingham Airport what where you thinking I know you have little land but still

 

[jfy1999]

Hi SRDey,
Apologies if i came across as critical. Was just a little surprised to see Biman on the front page.

Reading all the off topic conversations on the Emirates Thread about people’s thought and opinions on BHX as a “Scissor Hub” Asia-North America was quite interesting and reminded me of how we where close to becoming a “Scissor Hub” about 4-5 years ago with Biman Bangladesh. Yes I know it was 4-5 years ago but it’s one of Birmingham Airports great mysteries as to why nothing came about.

After some digging on another forum I gathered that DAC-BHX-JFK was the project of the Biman CEO Kevin Steele who favoured BHX. However, the US authorities insisted on DAC-MAN-EWR due to lack of slots at JFK. That suggests to me that the traffic rights for DAC-MAN were still in place from when MAN was previously served from 2011-13 (and then dropped for financial reasons).

Also, Biman were planning to use leased aircraft to serve DAC-BHX-JFK. This was so they wouldn't have to apply for new traffic rights for their own aircraft. However, the United States FAA were reportedly not satisfied that the leased aircraft would meet their standards.

As the Biman management didn't want to serve MAN or EWR they ended up launching nothing.

Maybe someone better informed than myself could give an idea of the size of the DAC-BHX market? Are there many connections through the likes of Emirates?

 

[58terminus]

No chance of Virgin long haul, and will be impossible to see a A340-600 at Birmingham, the aircrafts wheelbase is too long for the airports taxiways!!

I have heard an audio recording of a JFK ground controller with his typical New Yorker charm becoming frustrated as he tried to
guide one of these aircraft to its gate on a busy day.An aircraft design fault more than a problem with airport infrastructure..

 

[GliderPilot]

No chance of Virgin long haul, and will be impossible to see a A340-600 at Birmingham, the aircrafts wheelbase is too long for the airports taxiways!!

Made me laugh, when this did the rounds on Facebook a while ago i thought this was a joke until i read through the documents for BHX stating this is actually the case

 

[Coathanger16]

Not that it matters too much for BHX as we're unlikely to see Virgin long haul anyway, but Virgin are retired their A340-600s in the coming years. The aircraft BHX would mostly like see is the A330 (or A330neo as they replace the ceo's) which can taxi around perfectly fine.