Route Development & Rumours

[Ray Finkle]

The CAAC are the Chinese authorities. It's Beijing Capital Airlines that have applied for Beijing and Hangzhou, both weekly. Great if it comes off.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Confirmed on Mr K's Twitter starting April.

Let's hope they can pull it off.

 

[Ash]

This is the CAAC press release: (Ran through google translate so its a bit dodgy but its fairly readable)

Beijing Capital Airlines Co. subscribe to the following routes with effect from April 2016:
First, Beijing - Birmingham round-trip passenger flights, using the models for the A330, 1 class per week;
Second, Hangzhou - Birmingham round-trip passenger flights, using the models for the A330, 1 class per week.
If you have any comments, please November 10, 2015 will be written feedback to the Civil Aviation Secretary.
Tel: 010-64091952
Fax: 010-64013829
Email: [email protected]

http://www.caac.gov.cn/C1/201511/t20151102_82761.html

 

[Brummiegem]

Correct me if I am wrong but would 1 class suggest that this would still be a charter operation?
I don't know much about this airline.Do they operate many international schedules or do they operate for other agencies(ie tourist agencies)?

 

[User001]

These flights are likely to be charters as they seem to be the same set up as the Copenhagen flights, even the same 2 destinations and in a 1 class configuration.

I've tried to use the Beijing Capital website before, and it's incredibly difficult to use, and Copenhagen wasn't on there anyway as they were charters.

Maybe Mr Kehow will be happy and pick up his toys again now!

 

[nwoody2001]

Brummiegem, At 1x weekly flights to each destination (although PK say 2x weekly flights to PEK so clarification needed), it would indeed suggest that these flights would be marketed towards the tourist market and less towards the business market. I wouldn't read too much into the '1 class' as this could be something lost in translation.

However, whilst a large proportion of the seats could well be sold for package holidays from china to the UK, the big difference being these are schedules flights and not charter flights. Schedules flights mean that any seats can be sold directly from the airline to customers, so mrs smith from Birmingham could buy tickets on the flights too from the airlines website. This is not the case for charter flights, where seats can only be sold through specific 3rd party travel agents!

 

[User001]

Nwoody,

These are 1 class charter flights.

As said, these are exactly the same setup as the Copenhagen flights, which are also charter flights.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

Nwoody,

These are 1 class charter flights.

As said, these are exactly the same setup as the Copenhagen flights, which are also charter flights.

True, but -

"Although these flights will operate as charter packages it is understood to be Beijing Capital Airlines goal to develop them into scheduled operations in the future."

From Routesonline regarding the Copenhagen flights.

 

[User001]

In the future these could turn to scheduled but they don't have the licences for that yet.

If they wanted BHX to be scheduled from the start they would continue to use Hainan, who do have such licences.

 

[nwoody2001]

Then I stand corrected, I hadn't appreciated the CPH and HEL flights were also charter.... I wasn't aware an application for slots had to be made for Charter flights hence why we had charter flights to start with.

Notwithstanding the above, if they commence in april 2016 as planned, and assuming they will be here for the summer tourist season, then that's an impressive season.

2014: 6x flights over 2 weeks
2015: 36x flights over 2 months
2016: XXXx flights over x months???

I look forward to further news from PK.

 

[nwoody2001]

In the future these could turn to scheduled but they don't have the licences for that yet.

If they wanted BHX to be scheduled from the start they would continue to use Hainan, who do have such licenses.

My understanding was that the license not only covered the airline but the route as well... i.e Hainan has the License to operate MAN-PEK, however Hainan could never serve BHX-PEK without applying for a similar license. Equally, Air China who has the license to serve LHR-PEK would have to apply for another license if they wanted to serve MAN-PEK.

Consequently, as all the bilateral slots between the UK and China are full, any new scheduled service would have to apply for the slots, which is what I (appear wrongly to) assumed this application was!?

 

[User001]

its a bit of a head f**k Woody.

Basically, the current UK-China bilateral a for Chinese carriers is now full due to MAN-PEK taking the final 4 slots.

This means, and new flights to China by Chinese carriers can only run as a charter flight at this time, until the bilateral is changed again. It was recently changed to add 7 weekly flights, 3 went to LHR flights, 4 went to MAN.

The bilateral will be changed again in due course, but, until then, the BHX can not be a full scheduled flights.

I think the new setup is that Beijing Capital runs the charter flights from this winter (Copenhagen), and then, if bilateral so permit, Hainan then takes over the scheduled running.

I may be wrong, but, that's the situation as I know it.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

Been reading up a bit about HNA companies and this is exactly what they tend to do, moving from charter to mixed and then switch to the main carrier in the group, Hainan.

 

[User001]

It's on routeonline now that it is indeed a tie up with Caissa and will be charter to begin with but aims of going scheduled in the long run.

 

[richard winterbourn]

Well, the news this morning does at least put to bed one fear, notably that with MAN - PKG starting, BHX would lose its charter flights.

Not only do we not lose them, but it clearly looks as if they will be expanded even further in 2016 and prove to be the precursor to fully established schedule flights.

Well done PK and the BHX team

 

[justplanecrazy]

Could these flights run year round as charters then when the rights get giving get changed into scheduled flights with an increase in flights?

 

[User001]

Jon Dempsey

I have to reply to your PM here as you have disabled your option to receive messages, however, not, I am not ringwayman, that is a chap called 'David kerr' who also does under the 'david_itl' psuedonym.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

Thanks

 

[Brum X]

Well this isn't the news I was expecting./

I was expected news on a A380 and I get Chinese flights. Im not complaining but took me off guard.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Well this isn't the news I was expecting./

I was expected news on a A380 and I get Chinese flights. Im not complaining but took me off guard.

With User001's info

EK A380 on the afternoon flight from 1st May if GDS is correct.

along with news that a 3rd airbridge is to be added to the EK stand and taxiway bends to have work done, I'm fairly convinced BHX will also see the A380 next year.

Kevin