A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

Doncaster Sheffield Airport Strategic Review Announcement​

Forums4airports discusses the latest press release from Doncaster Sheffield airport where the airport questions the future of the airport. The owners of the airport, the Peel Group have announced they are looking at their options as the group has decided the airport is no longer viable as an operational airport. Here's the press release:

"The Board of Doncaster Sheffield Airport (DSA) has begun a review of strategic options for the Airport. This review follows lengthy deliberations by the Board of DSA which has reluctantly concluded that aviation activity on the site may no longer be commercially viable.

DSA’s owner, the Peel Group, as the Airport’s principal funder, has reviewed the conclusions of the Board of DSA and commissioned external independent advice in order to evaluate and test the conclusions drawn, which concurs with the Board’s initial findings.

Since the Peel Group acquired the Airport site in 1999 and converted it into an international commercial airport, which opened in 2005, significant amounts have been invested in the terminal, the airfield and its operations, both in relation to the original conversion and subsequently to improve the facilities and infrastructure on offer to create an award winning airport.

However, despite growth in passenger numbers, DSA has never achieved the critical mass required to become profitable and this fundamental issue of a shortfall in passenger numbers is exacerbated by the announcement on 10 June 2022 of the unilateral withdrawal of the Wizz Air based aircraft, leaving the Airport with only one base carrier, namely TUI.

This challenge has been increased by other changes in the aviation market, the well-publicised impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and increasingly important environmental considerations. It has therefore been concluded that aviation activity may no longer be the use for the site which delivers the maximum economic and environmental benefit to the region. Against this backdrop, DSA and the Peel Group, will initiate a consultation and engagement programme with stakeholders on the future of the site and how best to maximise and capitalise on future economic growth opportunities for Doncaster and the wider Sheffield City Region.

The wider Peel Group is already delivering significant development and business opportunities on its adjoining GatewayEast development including the recent deal for over 400,000 sq ft logistics and advanced manufacturing development on site, creating hundreds of new jobs and delivering further economic investment in the region.

Robert Hough, Chairman of Peel Airports Group, which includes Doncaster Sheffield Airport, said: “It is a critical time for aviation globally. Despite pandemic related travel restrictions slowly drawing to a close, we are still facing ongoing obstacles and dynamic long-term threats to the future of the aviation industry. The actions by Wizz to sacrifice its base at Doncaster to shore up its business opportunities at other bases in the South of England are a significant blow for the Airport.

Now is the right time to review how DSA can best create future growth opportunities for Doncaster and for South Yorkshire. The Peel Group remains committed to delivering economic growth, job opportunities and prosperity for Doncaster and the wider region.”

DSA and the Peel Group pride themselves on being forward-thinking whilst prioritising the welfare of staff and customers alike. As such, no further public comments will be made whilst they undertake this engagement period with all stakeholders.
During the Strategic Review, the Airport will operate as normal. Therefore passengers who are due to travel to the airport, please arrive and check in as normal. If there are any disruptions with your flight, you will be contacted by your airline in good time.
For all press enquiries, please contact Charlotte Leach at [email protected]."

"Not great news for DSA or the region"

Should the government or local council foot the bill and provide a financial subsidy to keep the airport open, thoughts...?

 

Doncaster Sheffield Airport: Hopes for five airlines and quadrupling of freight traffic revealed

Council bosses hope to attract “four to five” airlines to fly out of the reopened Doncaster Sheffield Airport while quadrupling the amount of freight traffic coming through the site, it has been revealed.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

 

You are missing the point of what I am making. Put the station at Hurst Lane and it has a business case in itself without the airport being open. I would say with an hourly service in each direction you talking about at least 75k passengers a year easily using the station, that is before taking the airport into consideration.

Yorkshire Wildlife Park visitor numbers:
2023 - 921,008
2022 - 932,444

So add that the attraction's entrance gate which is pretty much next to the station at Hurst Lane then you could easily add another 100k in passengers. So without an airport, a station could generate 150-200k passengers a year. So it has a business case already. Add the airport in as well, for instance the airport had one million passengers a year and having a railway station close by, you could increase passengers using the station to somewhere between 350-500k passenger journey's a year.

So the airport boosts the business case for the railway station even more.

Take for instance Hexham is a market town between Newcastle & Carlisle with a population of about 12k, it generated 394,724 passenger journey's during the 2023-24 financial year.

Take a new station built at Horden in the colliery villages just north of Hartlepool.
Population of the villages surrounding Horden station.
Horden (includes Blackhall & Blackhall Rocks) 7,200
Peterlee 20,300
Easington 5,000

Opened 29th June 2020. Council predictions were only expecting about 70k passengers a year to use it.
2020-21 - 33,038
2021-22 - 96,858
2022-23 - 99,564
2023-24 - 136,780


Populations surrounding a Hurst Lane station
Auckley Parish (Auckley & Hayfield Green) - 5,000
Blaxton - 1,200
Branton & Cantley - 1,200
Finningley 5,300
Rossington & Bawtry 14,000

Then you have an attraction with just under one million visitors right next door.

So I would say that a station at Hurst Lane is easily capable of generating 150k passengers a year. If airport reopened 350-500k passengers a year at the station.

East Midlands Airport is 6 miles from East Midlands Parkway station.
East Midlands Parkway saw 326,786 passenger journeys in 2023-24.

So my estimates for a Hurst Lane station are pretty realistic expectations given my vast of knowledge and experience in the transport industry.

I’m not missing any point, you’re trying to compare with routes that are more utilised and hence can absorb stops. Particularly your comparison with East Midlands parkway which is on the midlands main line to London which offers people in the area an ability to hop on services to London without having to go to Nottingham, Loughborough etc first. The line you are talking about is a lightly used secondary line between Lincoln and Doncaster, if you think that people will be jumping on it to visit the wildlife park or airport you’re deluding yourself.

As for ‘talking to 5 airlines’, well Christian Foster can talk to who he wants. Lots of airlines will scope it out like they did last time to leverage better deals with the airports they currently fly from. Of course he wouldn’t know that though would he…. He admonishes Peel for only having one or two airlines but doesn’t seem to understand that they were the only one or two airlines that wanted to use it.

Hope is not a strategy.

 

I would expect a stream of propaganda - some perhaps with a hint of truth or 'may be' releases coming out of FlyDoncaster - or whoever it might be who's sending them out - to keep the project in the public eye which is essential and perhaps put pressure on SYMCA Mayor in order to ensure that his independent investigation comes out positive!! At the end of the day what may be crucial is whether FlyDoncaster can afford the incentive payments to attract as many as four or five airlines even if they were interested - but little point speculating on another 'fluffy' press release without any real substance. I think the more realistic approach from the MAI man will prove more reliable.

 

You are missing the point of what I am making. Put the station at Hurst Lane and it has a business case in itself without the airport being open. I would say with an hourly service in each direction you talking about at least 75k passengers a year easily using the station, that is before taking the airport into consideration.

Yorkshire Wildlife Park visitor numbers:
2023 - 921,008
2022 - 932,444

So add that the attraction's entrance gate which is pretty much next to the station at Hurst Lane then you could easily add another 100k in passengers. So without an airport, a station could generate 150-200k passengers a year. So it has a business case already. Add the airport in as well, for instance the airport had one million passengers a year and having a railway station close by, you could increase passengers using the station to somewhere between 350-500k passenger journey's a year.

So the airport boosts the business case for the railway station even more.

Take for instance Hexham is a market town between Newcastle & Carlisle with a population of about 12k, it generated 394,724 passenger journey's during the 2023-24 financial year.

Take a new station built at Horden in the colliery villages just north of Hartlepool.
Population of the villages surrounding Horden station.
Horden (includes Blackhall & Blackhall Rocks) 7,200
Peterlee 20,300
Easington 5,000

Opened 29th June 2020. Council predictions were only expecting about 70k passengers a year to use it.
2020-21 - 33,038
2021-22 - 96,858
2022-23 - 99,564
2023-24 - 136,780


Populations surrounding a Hurst Lane station
Auckley Parish (Auckley & Hayfield Green) - 5,000
Blaxton - 1,200
Branton & Cantley - 1,200
Finningley 5,300
Rossington & Bawtry 14,000

Then you have an attraction with just under one million visitors right next door.

So I would say that a station at Hurst Lane is easily capable of generating 150k passengers a year. If airport reopened 350-500k passengers a year at the station.

East Midlands Airport is 6 miles from East Midlands Parkway station.
East Midlands Parkway saw 326,786 passenger journeys in 2023-24.

So my estimates for a Hurst Lane station are pretty realistic expectations given my vast of knowledge and experience in the transport industry.

So just tackling some of those points. Firstly the Wildlife Park, how many visitors would switch from road to rail to visit the attraction? Keep in mind that the line currently sees just 5 passenger trains in each direction between Doncaster and Peterborough, and that rail fares can get very expensive very quickly for families / groups unless booked well in advance. Given that many visits to the park may well be spur of the moment visits for families and groups based on the weather, school holidays etc, how likely are they to risk switching to the train and it's walk-up prices? Plus being effectively a branch line, most people are going to have to make one or more connections and find parking at their originating station. This will add even more cost and time on journeys that might already be a couple of hours for many. You seem to be expecting in excess of 10%, which frankly I think is way too optimistic.

As for the surrounding villages, how many will be commuting from them in Doncaster or towns along the existing route? Given that (as DSA supporters love to tell us) the area is close to major road connections, are people likely to switch modes when they could probably drive as easily to their destinations? Frankly probably not, especially as mentioned there are currently so few services, and none that are useful in the morning peak. There's no easy way of saying this, but that area is very rural and is unlikely to attract train operators to increase services simply on the back of the population figures.

Finally the airport itself. You seem to be expecting anything up to 25% of projected airport users to come via a station that would be over a mile away, with only one train an hour, and well outside it's infrastructure. It's just not realistic. Take Manchester, it has a station with anything up to around 8 services an hour, serving many local and long distance destinations on a regular basis, yet gets only somewhere in the region of 10%-15% of passengers arriving by heavy rail (4.8M in 2023-24 compared to 30.8M airport passengers in 2024). And this is with an airport that serves a huge number of destinations, not just a handful of holiday-in-the-sun flights (remembering again that many of these holiday makers will be families and groups). If you want a better comparison, take Teeside Airport's station, well now former station. It was barely used outside of train enthusiasts "ticking it off". Now it is only served by Norwegian Blue... (let's see who gets this reference)

I'd say your projection of 350K-500K per annum comes straight out of the same forecast that convinces CDC that DSA will give a 9:1 return on investment. That forecast is probably best put on a dusty shelf to be forgotten about, before silly amounts of money is spent on it.

 

Airports talk to airlines all the time, you can bet MAN/EMA/LBA are talking to 10+ airlines / new airlines, means eff all until they launch a service.

You can bet they're not talking to Ryanair..!

 

Airports talk to airlines all the time, you can bet MAN/EMA/LBA are talking to 10+ airlines / new airlines, means eff all until they launch a service.

You can bet they're not talking to Ryanair..!

It’s not even that, it screams of naivety and a bit of commercial ineptitude from this career council worker.

I can guarantee he has absolutely no negotiating power when compared to some of the people Peel employed ti do the job over 20 years! And look where that got them, a large number of airlines (all U.K. ones except jet2) signing up then binning it when the yields were poor. I don’t care if you’re a council exec or an MAI employee but you can’t do anything about the fundamental problems with viability. It’s just stupid to assume Peel didn’t want 5 airlines flying from there and 4 times the freight.

 

is

I would expect a stream of propaganda - some perhaps with a hint of truth or 'may be' releases coming out of FlyDoncaster - or whoever it might be who's sending them out - to keep the project in the public eye which is essential and perhaps put pressure on SYMCA Mayor in order to ensure that his independent investigation comes out positive!! At the end of the day what may be crucial is whether FlyDoncaster can afford the incentive payments to attract as many as four or five airlines even if they were interested - but little point speculating on another 'fluffy' press release without any real substance. I think the more realistic approach from the MAI man will prove more reliable.

Totally agree. These reports will be intended to provide the South Yorkshire Mayor with positive propaganda in the hope he will be duped into believing the airport will one day be profitable. It won't be the last. There'll be all sorts.of spin and rumours designed to influence the outcome of his independent advice and to heap pressure on him to hand over the cash. All smoke snd mirrors. All a careful play on words designed to mislead without actually lying.

 

Totally agree. These reports will be intended to provide the South Yorkshire Mayor with positive propaganda in the hope he will be duped into believing the airport will one day be profitable. It won't be the last. There'll be all sorts.of spin and rumours designed to influence the outcome of his independent advice and to heap pressure on him to hand over the cash. All smoke snd mirrors. All a careful play on words designed to mislead without actually lying.

Yes the phrasing ‘targeting 5 airlines’ implies that they are in a good bargaining position. They are NOT. They might have some success attracting one or two, but just assuming because you have a runway and terminal that you will start seeing airlines signing up is naive and inaccurate. The sort of work needed to see it through is far beyond the capability or finances of the council.

Blunt perhaps but history tells us it’s going to be exceptionally tough. I don’t get this Peel kicking either, the guy from MAI alluded to them not being trustworthy too, but it doesn’t explain how LPL became one of the fastest growing airports under their direction.

Then we have MAI apparently stating that you can be profitable with low cost airlines. How? We already know the incentives they require are prohibitively expensive and need volume to make pay. What do they propose? Charge more? Well that kind of destroys the narrative doesn’t it.

 

Maybe Eastern might chuck in a token NQY or JER weekly, BH a BOJ, a TUI offering, then what?

Not enough to turn a profit?

Who even supposed to be having conversations with airlines for the last year? Somebody from the council?

Surely that isn't going to be taken seriously?

Airlines are not going to be queuing up to fly from DSA, they never have.. never will.

 

Maybe Eastern might chuck in a token NQY or JER weekly, BH a BOJ, a TUI offering, then what?

Not enough to turn a profit?

Who even supposed to be having conversations with airlines for the last year? Somebody from the council?

Surely that isn't going to be taken seriously?

Airlines are not going to be queuing up to fly from DSA, they never have.. never will.

Not a clue. The Eastern commercial director has been getting involved on LinkedIn but I understand he’s not the most astute and probably has personal reasons for wanting DSA to succeed being a local. The council claim they’ve been fielding interest from airlines for the past year or so, but they also claimed that there was private sector interest in the airport and that came to 0 so no reason to believe that this airline interest is tangible. I’ve said it previously but airlines will talk to them to see what they’re planning because the airlines need to be ready to react, this could be by putting aircraft into there but it also could be to react to anticipated competition and I’m really not confident that the council would be able to tell the difference.

Peel had frequent attendance at the routes and slot conferences I understand. They went out to tout business. I haven’t seen anyone from CDC or ‘FlyDoncaster’ listed in attendance at any yet but I could be wrong.

 

With the Daily articles that keep appearing in the media, that seem to have taken a delight in pouring cold water on our project to #SaveDSA

Here in Doncaster we are just getting on with the job

• 2 Excel have returned to DSA with flights in and out.

• Munich Airport International have been announced as the operator working with Fly Doncaster and FP Airports.

• The business case was submitted to The Subsidies Committe Which received a positive outcome, some further work was identified that will be addressed

• While SYMCA are doing due diligence to ensure the project will stand up to further scrutiny,

• Munich Airport International M.D. Dr Lutz Weisser has been on BBC Look North,

• The new operators of Doncaster Sheffield Airport have said they are "confident" it will be financially viable if it reopens - but added that it was "too early" to announce airlines or destinations.

• German firm Munich Airport International (MAI) will provide operational and management services to Fly Doncaster, a company set up by Doncaster Council to run the airport.

• The council said securing MAI was a significant milestone in its plans to reopen the site by spring 2026.

We need some clarity here though

There are one or two points that the media articles keep referencing.

It mainly surrounds funding for our project or to be exact Public Funding !!

Let’s start with a bit of a history lesson

Leeds Bradford Airport

or Yeadon which started out pre war as a small general aviation aerodrome.

Now this is an important fact.

Owned by the local Authorities of Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale and Kirklees

So Publicly owned and funded. Until 2006 when it was sold off.

Manchester Airports Group Limited, known as MAG is a British airport operator which owns three British airports: Manchester Airport, East Midlands Airport, and Stansted Airport.

The Group operates under Manchester Airports Holdings Limited, a holding company owned by the ten metropolitan borough councils of Greater Manchester, and Australian investment fund IFM Investors. Founded in 2001,

Still owned by local Authorities to date along with IFM.

Teesside Airport

On 4 December 2018, the Mayor of the Tees Valley Ben Houchen announced a £40M deal had been agreed to buy Peel Airport's 89% majority shareholding in Durham Tees Valley Airport, which if approved would bring the airport back into public ownership for the first time since it was sold to Peel in 2003. The deal would be completed subject to ratification from the leaders of the five local authorities that made up the Tees Valley Combined Authority

Publicly owned and operated.

So, a public funded airport is nothing new!!

What's all the fuss about then? Why are LBA and the media getting so involved !!

Loosing 20% of their customers may have something to do with it??

Does this 20 % equate to the same flights and passengers they gained when DSA closed?? LBA is investing in their airport,

Perhaps they’re concerned that a re-opened DSA may upset their plans and business model.

Surely these 2 airports should be able to work together to offer the region exactly what it needs, options and a choice of destinations and or airlines with different budgets,



#saveDSA #saveDSAairspace #syorkscityairport #teamdoncaster #teamDSA

The car mechanic has had another rant against what he likes to call the media pouring ‘cold water’ on the idea of reopening DSA. Then goes on to talk about a collection of airports that have over the years almost all become private sector led, even MAG is propped up by foreign investment and returns profits to its shareholders. It is not the same. LBA is 100% private owned and as such has rights to challenge any attempt to undermine its competitive edge by using public subsidy thinly veiled as ‘loans’ to distort the market,

The bloke needs to stop now. He’s doing his own cause a disservice.

I understand more fluff inbound from Ros Jones next week, presumably the last few bits before purdah ahead of the local elections. Even their own council execs and MAI don’t appear to be on the same page!

Anyone who watched the short BBC interview with the guy from MAI might also come away with more questions than answers as I did. The interviewer broached the topic of Peel and how the airport wasn’t viable under them. He responded with someting about people believing you can’t make money from low cost airlines, this was a bizarre response. Peel out of anyone know how to make money out of low cost airlines, it’s what the modern LPL is built from! The problem, as we know, is that not enough low cost airlines wanted to fly from there which rendered recouping the revenue from other sources redundant, he did not answer how he intends to change this.

 

The car mechanic has had another rant against what he likes to call the media pouring ‘cold water’ on the idea of reopening DSA. Then goes on to talk about a collection of airports that have over the years almost all become private sector led, even MAG is propped up by foreign investment and returns profits to its shareholders. It is not the same. LBA is 100% private owned and as such has rights to challenge any attempt to undermine its competitive edge by using public subsidy thinly veiled as ‘loans’ to distort the market,

The bloke needs to stop now. He’s doing his own cause a disservice.

I understand more fluff inbound from Ros Jones next week, presumably the last few bits before purdah ahead of the local elections. Even their own council execs and MAI don’t appear to be on the same page!

Anyone who watched the short BBC interview with the guy from MAI might also come away with more questions than answers as I did. The interviewer broached the topic of Peel and how the airport wasn’t viable under them. He responded with someting about people believing you can’t make money from low cost airlines, this was a bizarre response. Peel out of anyone know how to make money out of low cost airlines, it’s what the modern LPL is built from! The problem, as we know, is that not enough low cost airlines wanted to fly from there which rendered recouping the revenue from other sources redundant, he did not answer

1. MANCHESTER AIRPORT
Manchester City Council (35.5%), IFM Investors (35.5%), Nine other Greater Manchester councils (29% collectively)
2. STANSTED
Same as above
3. Luton
Luton Council 100%
Operations : AENA 51% Infrabridge 49%
4. Birmingham Airport
7 local authorities 49%
Ontario Teachers Pension 48.25%
Employee Shares 2.75%
5. EAST Midlands
As MAG
6. Newcastle Airport
7 local authorities 51%
AMP49%
7. Teesside
Tees Valley Combined Authority (TVCA, representing five local authorities) (75%), TAF (25%)
Doncaster is the only airport not shared by its neighbours or by private sector capital.

The car mechanic has had another rant against what he likes to call the media pouring ‘cold water’ on the idea of reopening DSA. Then goes on to talk about a collection of airports that have over the years almost all become private sector led, even MAG is propped up by foreign investment and returns profits to its shareholders. It is not the same. LBA is 100% private owned and as such has rights to challenge any attempt to undermine its competitive edge by using public subsidy thinly veiled as ‘loans’ to distort the market,

The bloke needs to stop now. He’s doing his own cause a disservice.

 

1. MANCHESTER AIRPORT
Manchester City Council (35.5%), IFM Investors (35.5%), Nine other Greater Manchester councils (29% collectively)
2. STANSTED
Same as above
3. Luton
Luton Council 100%
Operations : AENA 51% Infrabridge 49%
4. Birmingham Airport
7 local authorities 49%
Ontario Teachers Pension 48.25%
Employee Shares 2.75%
5. EAST Midlands
As MAG
6. Newcastle Airport
7 local authorities 51%
AMP49%
7. Teesside
Tees Valley Combined Authority (TVCA, representing five local authorities) (75%), TAF (25%)
Doncaster is the only airport not shared by its neighbours or by private sector capital.

Their argument is that they intend to generate investor confidence by proving the viability of the airport, they then claim that the reason they couldn’t attract private sector investment was due to the head of lease terms. So which one is it? Oliver Coppard has said more than once over the years that it is the private sector that should run airports. All of those listed have been developed over decades.

I get it. South Yorkshire is collectively a populous region of some 1.2-1.5 million people (depending on which data set you view), this is larger than Newcastle and therefore stands to reason that on paper the airport should be busy. Years of first mover advantage and proximity to areas of even larger population density have made it very hard to make a dent. It needed 4 or 5 wizzairs and TUIs to get that sustainable growth. This didn’t happen and I suspect LBA are currently in advanced negotiations with easyJet which would be a nail in the coffin for DSA. There aren’t many airlines around, they all have operations at neighbouring airports. The only way the airport can become viable is by taking those airlines from other airports. Peel had 20 years aided briefly by Vantage who legged it after just over a year. Jet2 are issuing warnings about a fragile market. The rate of growth in the U.K. sector is not sustainable. Risk is far too high for the people of Doncaster to be lumbered with this, time for SY to step up or decide to reject it.

 

Iro

Their argument is that they intend to generate investor confidence by proving the viability of the airport, they then claim that the reason they couldn’t attract private sector investment was due to the head of lease terms. So which one is it? Oliver Coppard has said more than once over the years that it is the private sector that should run airports. All of those listed have been developed over decades.

I get it. South Yorkshire is collectively a populous region of some 1.2-1.5 million people (depending on which data set you view), this is larger than Newcastle and therefore stands to reason that on paper the airport should be busy. Years of first mover advantage and proximity to areas of even larger population density have made it very hard to make a dent. It needed 4 or 5 wizzairs and TUIs to get that sustainable growth. This didn’t happen and I suspect LBA are currently in advanced negotiations with easyJet which would be a nail in the coffin for DSA. There aren’t many airlines around, they all have operations at neighbouring airports. The only way the airport can become viable is by taking those airlines from other airports. Peel had 20 years aided briefly by Vantage who legged it after just over a year. Jet2 are issuing warnings about a fragile market. The rate of growth in the U.K. sector is not sustainable. Risk is far too high for the people of Doncaster to be lumbered with this, time for SY to step up or decide to reject it.

Ironically the mechanic and the followers fail to mention LPL and its success but continue to bash every other airport.. ironic LPL is peel owned and run.

It’s Friday night mark and your sharing social media posts of the same story that the news out keys posts to try and gain traction, followed by your rant which is completely ironic.

MME look at it? It isn’t exactly flourishing. I’m not sure of his point again.

He states LBA are scared about DSA getting there 20% of pax back.. LBA did not gain 20% pax because of DSA, LBA had about 15 wizz flights (now less) and a handful of extra TUI flights.

Ryanair not interested.. Jet2 have sent market warnings, yeah perfect timing to try and reopen and failed airport..

Do the maths.

 

oliver coppard also stated peel made a mess of DSA.
you keep banging on how hard peel tried to make the airport a sucess, but their track record said it all.

three airports , and two under their leadership failed.

i mean all these great people peel had running the airport where are they now?6
is the last managing director running a major airport?.

he is not even in the same industry.

by they way i agree with you about mr chadwicks rants, he needs to stop.

 

Iro

Ironically the mechanic and the followers fail to mention LPL and its success but continue to bash every other airport.. ironic LPL is peel owned and run.

It’s Friday night mark and your sharing social media posts of the same story that the news out keys posts to try and gain traction, followed by your rant which is completely ironic.

MME look at it? It isn’t exactly flourishing. I’m not sure of his point again.

He states LBA are scared about DSA getting there 20% of pax back.. LBA did not gain 20% pax because of DSA, LBA had about 15 wizz flights (now less) and a handful of extra TUI flights.

Do the maths.

oliver coppard also stated peel made a mess of DSA.
you keep banging on how hard peel tried to make the airport a sucess, but their track record said it all.

three airports , and two under their leadership failed.

i mean all these great people peel had running the airport where are they now?6
is the last managing director running a major airport?.

he is not even in the same industry.

by they way i agree with you about mr chadwicks rants, he needs to stop.

I feel like your clinching at straws..

DSA and MME have never been successful, there isn’t the market there, LPL on the other hand there is. A low cost airport and it’s successful.

Stop bashing Peel? They literally got a wizz air base in before they shut? I don’t get your point, if they wanted to sabotage the airport they wouldn’t of bothered paying them, like they did with Flybe?

Easyjet, Ryanair, Flybe, wizzair UK, aer Lingus all tried and failed..

The airport has had a massive number of airlines try and fail. What on earth it going to change? Not the half empty/empty airplane flying out.

 

oliver coppard also stated peel made a mess of DSA.
you keep banging on how hard peel tried to make the airport a sucess, but their track record said it all.

three airports , and two under their leadership failed.

i mean all these great people peel had running the airport where are they now?6
is the last managing director running a major airport?.

he is not even in the same industry.

by they way i agree with you about mr chadwicks rants, he needs to stop.

How is Oliver Coppard in the position to judge? And FYI it was his predecessor who refused to help Peel out financially because there was no possibility of profitability by using their own metrics, £20million was a high risk investment for them…

Alpha had pointed to their track record, LPL says it all. And out of the 4 airports and 1 aerodrome they have been involved with one was a dud from the start and can not be used as ammo. Tessside never closed and is far from a successful enterprise under public ownership. LPL is one of the leading regional airports in the U.K. Peel just misjudged their potential, DSA would never have been built without them and should never have been built in the first place. Could have been HMP Finningley by now rabbitfoot…

How about Steve Gill, former DSA MD and current BOH MD who has overseen the busiest ever year for BOH and the arrival of Jet2? Even the highly qualified staff went elsewhere years before it closed because they didn’t see a future in it, I know a couple of others personally and their stories are so far from the popular narrative, alas I won’t post them because that’s anecdotal but there’s some nonsense doing the rounds and you’re one of the ones who’s swallowed it.

 

oliver coppard also stated peel made a mess of DSA.
you keep banging on how hard peel tried to make the airport a sucess, but their track record said it all.

three airports , and two under their leadership failed.

i mean all these great people peel had running the airport where are they now?6
is the last managing director running a major airport?.

he is not even in the same industry.

by they way i agree with you about mr chadwicks rants, he needs to stop.

God there's so much nonsense spouted about Peel messing DSA up. It's all just to deflect blame from politicians who refused to pour more cash into Peel's DSA fund to stop it going under. How ironic.

Peel did all they could to make DSA a success. From day one they persuaded TUi to close down all operations at LBA and open a decently sized base at DSA, thinking all their happy bookers would follow. They didn't bargain for Thomas Cook at LBA and certainly didn't bargain for Jet2 who grew rapidly after choosing LBA as their home base. Or Monarch opening a base at LBA to replsce Thomas Cook. Or that in fact, the experts at the public inquiry were correct when they said DSA would fail, because there are too many established airports nearer to the main centres of population, and because airlines don't just move into other airports if it means diluting their operations at existing bases.

LBA believed they had a deal to get Flybe's 2 E190s based there. They even marked out the stands for them. Peel gazumped LBA with an offer that was impossible to refuse, so Flybe went there instead, and like others, regretted it.

Peel managed to get Easyjet long before LBA. It didnt last 12 months. Ryanair came and went. Aer Arann came and went. They got a Wizz UK base too, and they left as well.

The fact is that offering big subsidies to airlines to entice them to fly out of DSA is no good for airport profits. It's no good. for airlines either if they dont fly full aircaft. There's a list of airlines that failed at DSA. Only an idiot who doesn't understand the industry would pump £145m into an airport that failed for 17 years in the expectation they can suddenly attract multiple airlines on multiple high demand routes and make enough money to even keep the airport operational.

As for the forecast loss of 20% of LBA passengers to DSA, all I can say is dream on! That's the equivalent of every person in the Leeds Metropolitan District (around 850,000) heading to DSA instead of their usual LBA. Never going to happen even with LBA overcrowded, but with a complete terminal transformation by the time DSA opens, even less likely.

 

oliver coppard also stated peel made a mess of DSA.
you keep banging on how hard peel tried to make the airport a sucess, but their track record said it all.

three airports , and two under their leadership failed.

i mean all these great people peel had running the airport where are they now?6
is the last managing director running a major airport?.

he is not even in the same industry.

by they way i agree with you about mr chadwicks rants, he needs to stop.

Peel spent a fortune (private money) with incentives for airlines to operate from DSA - but when you are paying someone to operate it's hard to make money. As incentive periods came to an end FR and EZY clearly could not make money without the subsidy and pulled out followed by Stobart/EI. Peels strategic blunder was to think that an airport in that location would be mega successful and there was no recovering from that whatever management team they employed. They spent £284m(?) on it - I think if that were me and I'd built it to fail as per the popular narrative on the campaign site - I could have done it much cheaper than that!!! As is alluded to elsewhere on here - the experts were right. The fundamental reason which is rarely, if at all mentioned it failed is the lack of sufficient local catchment to sustain other than a few holiday flights, in the middle of other close by airports. I mention LBA as it's the one that the campaign site loves to hate for some reason which has an inferior infrastructure to DSA and the very much exaggerated but occasional weather issues, poor access, overcrowded terminal etc. but has thrived - warts and all - because it has a very significant catchment area right on it's doorstep and like the folk living around DSA want to fly from their local airport. The stated plan (or that bit which has been made public) is to take traffic from LBA but it will be exceedingly difficult for the above reason.
Oliver Coppard is a politician with no knowledge whatsoever of the aviation industry - he wouldn't know an elevator from an aileron which is fair enough but what he will think he knows is what he is told and what he gleans from the campaign site much of which is neither objective or accurate. A likeable bloke whose wisdom will be tested in the summer. Once bitten, twice shy springs to mind. If this were private money fine - but it's not!

Iro

Ironically the mechanic and the followers fail to mention LPL and its success but continue to bash every other airport.. ironic LPL is peel owned and run.

It’s Friday night mark and your sharing social media posts of the same story that the news out keys posts to try and gain traction, followed by your rant which is completely ironic.

MME look at it? It isn’t exactly flourishing. I’m not sure of his point again.

He states LBA are scared about DSA getting there 20% of pax back.. LBA did not gain 20% pax because of DSA, LBA had about 15 wizz flights (now less) and a handful of extra TUI flights.

Ryanair not interested.. Jet2 have sent market warnings, yeah perfect timing to try and reopen and failed airport..

Do the maths.

And TUI will not be there in spring 2026 if indeed it opens then, if reports are true that they have said themselves that their 2026 offer is already allocated - as are their available aircraft and DSA doesn't feature. There is understandable impatience growing with folk wanting to book 2026 holidays which will increase. FlyDoncaster/CDC should really come clean and put an unambiguous slant on what's happening otherwise there is bound to be huge disappointment when the penny drops which amongst other things is only going to generate further vitriol towards surrounding airports.

 

Peel spent a fortune (private money) with incentives for airlines to operate from DSA - but when you are paying someone to operate it's hard to make money. As incentive periods came to an end FR and EZY clearly could not make money without the subsidy and pulled out followed by Stobart/EI. Peels strategic blunder was to think that an airport in that location would be mega successful and there was no recovering from that whatever management team they employed. They spent £284m(?) on it - I think if that were me and I'd built it to fail as per the popular narrative on the campaign site - I could have done it much cheaper than that!!! As is alluded to elsewhere on here - the experts were right. The fundamental reason which is rarely, if at all mentioned it failed is the lack of sufficient local catchment to sustain other than a few holiday flights, in the middle of other close by airports. I mention LBA as it's the one that the campaign site loves to hate for some reason which has an inferior infrastructure to DSA and the very much exaggerated but occasional weather issues, poor access, overcrowded terminal etc. but has thrived - warts and all - because it has a very significant catchment area right on it's doorstep and like the folk living around DSA want to fly from their local airport. The stated plan (or that bit which has been made public) is to take traffic from LBA but it will be exceedingly difficult for the above reason.
Oliver Coppard is a politician with no knowledge whatsoever of the aviation industry - he wouldn't know an elevator from an aileron which is fair enough but what he will think he knows is what he is told and what he gleans from the campaign site much of which is neither objective or accurate. A likeable bloke whose wisdom will be tested in the summer. Once bitten, twice shy springs to mind. If this were private money fine - but it's not!


And TUI will not be there in spring 2026 if indeed it opens then, if reports are true that they have said themselves that their 2026 offer is already allocated - as are their available aircraft and DSA doesn't feature. There is understandable impatience growing with folk wanting to book 2026 holidays which will increase. FlyDoncaster/CDC should really come clean and put an unambiguous slant on what's happening otherwise there is bound to be huge disappointment when the penny drops which amongst other things is only going to generate further vitriol towards surrounding airports.

I can see TUI getting pissed off actually, because it could undermine consumer confidence. I understand that some of the major high street retail outlets have been instructed to say that they will have no flights or holiday on sale from Doncaster in 2026 because I imagine if people are waiting for DSA to reopen it could have a tangible impact on bookings! It would be wise of the Council to be honest but they aren’t going to be wise when there are elections around the corner unfortunately.

Agreed though, the catchment area was always the bone of contention. Yes it’s relatively well connected to the motorway network and makes Leeds and Nottingham within relatively easy reach, but they have their own airports and so there’s no value in doubling up as it just adds to the cost which helps nobody, not least the consumer who then complains that flights are too expensive and goes elsewhere! That’s where the Peel high charges narrative comes in.