Media portray Leeds Bradford airport unfairly.

[LBAYORKIE]

Your conclusion maybe! Not everyone's.

Oh yes, its just my personal opinion of course. I am very frustrated at one 'defeat' after another.

 

[GrimUpNorth]

Hi Everyone, long time member but first time poster so be gentle! If I've posted this in the wrong thread can one of the Mods move it for me?

I've read the planning conditions relating to night-time operations and a few things jumped out at me.

1. The quotas were set in 1994 but they grew over the following years with the present levels of 1200 winter and 2800 summer only kicking in from winter 2001/02.
2. The carry over is a maximum of 10% from the preceding season so assuming LBA didn't use the whole 1200 in winter 2021/22 then the quota for summer 2022 was 2920.
3. The conditions seem quite clear about late arrivals. ONLY late arrivals of aircraft prohibited from flying at night are excluded from the quotas between 23:00 and 01:00, so for example when we had the A310's doing the Islamabad flights the (often) late arrival was OK but the late departures were not.
4. Exempt aircraft seem to be from a very old list (published in 1994) used to define the night-time quota scheme at the London Airports, however having looked a bit deeper it appears there are now no such thing as exempt aircraft anymore (there are but it's only small aircraft checking ILS etc so the term exempt is pretty much obsolete) with the new quota counts of 0, 0.125, 0.25 having replaced them. I suppose where these newer quota count groups fit in the whole scheme of things is open to discussion/interpretation.
5. Who is responsible for monitoring compliance with planning conditions? Yes, the local authority has a duty to investigate breaches of conditions if they become aware of any but I doubt they have a duty to actively monitor conditions - just imagine the resources required to monitor every condition of every planning application approved. I'm sure at the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the applicant to read and understand the conditions imposed on them and they can choose to accept the conditions and move forward or not. If the conditions become outdated then they can make an application to amend the existing conditions.
6. With regards to the 'summer always used to be May to October' comment, does anyone have the numbers to show if LBA would have stayed within the 2920 quota (2800 plus 120 carry over) for summer 2022?

Anyway, these are just my thoughts and I'm as disappointed as everyone else that we've got to where we are, but surely there's some very highly paid people at LBA who seem to have taken their eye off the ball and should be able to look at the proposed schedules and work out how many movements they're going to have.

Thanks

 

[Coathanger16]

LBA seriously need to submit a planning application to at least change the morning restrictions so they start at 0600. That alone would remove the risk of exceeding the limit

This is where we really need a national strategy agreed between Government, the Industry and Local Communities as to what hours constitute night hours.

Otherwise LBA changing the restriction from 0700 to 0600, even through legal planning, would just be moving the goalposts, and you'd have the same difficulty, if not more, that the airport had with the new terminal plans.

Likewise, how much different aircraft types count towards the night quota should also be agreed between the three bodies.

 

[Statto]

Your conclusion maybe! Not everyone's.

I agree. It seems to me that this wasn’t anything really to do with whether new generation aircraft count towards the quota, it was just a straight up case of operating too many flights. Airlines have adjusted the schedule for this summer and the airport will be busier than it was last summer. Meanwhile the airport are pushing on with recruiting people to deliver the terminal redevelopment so obviously they don’t see any issue with the longer term prospects.

 

[Len Fish]

LBA have held their hands up for exceeding the quota and the Council have issued a breach of condition notice. I believe both parties are playing a straight bat by agreement to avoid dragging the arguments on and on. After all LBA need to keep the Council onside for any future developments and equally the Council do seem to realise the importance of the airport for the future prosperity of Leeds, after all they did approve the new terminal application in spite of strong opposition.

Oh yes, it’s just my personal opinion of course. I am very frustrated at one 'defeat' after another.

I content myself with the fact that although the new terminal plan fell through the objectors are now looking at an existing terminal expansion which they are powerless to stop and which will hopefully bring in more airlines, more flights and more passengers, the very things they thought they had prevented by opposing the new terminal.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Hi Everyone, long time member but first time poster so be gentle! If I've posted this in the wrong thread can one of the Mods move it for me?

I've read the planning conditions relating to night-time operations and a few things jumped out at me.

1. The quotas were set in 1994 but they grew over the following years with the present levels of 1200 winter and 2800 summer only kicking in from winter 2001/02.
2. The carry over is a maximum of 10% from the preceding season so assuming LBA didn't use the whole 1200 in winter 2021/22 then the quota for summer 2022 was 2920.
3. The conditions seem quite clear about late arrivals. ONLY late arrivals of aircraft prohibited from flying at night are excluded from the quotas between 23:00 and 01:00, so for example when we had the A310's doing the Islamabad flights the (often) late arrival was OK but the late departures were not.
4. Exempt aircraft seem to be from a very old list (published in 1994) used to define the night-time quota scheme at the London Airports, however having looked a bit deeper it appears there are now no such thing as exempt aircraft anymore (there are but it's only small aircraft checking ILS etc so the term exempt is pretty much obsolete) with the new quota counts of 0, 0.125, 0.25 having replaced them. I suppose where these newer quota count groups fit in the whole scheme of things is open to discussion/interpretation.
5. Who is responsible for monitoring compliance with planning conditions? Yes, the local authority has a duty to investigate breaches of conditions if they become aware of any but I doubt they have a duty to actively monitor conditions - just imagine the resources required to monitor every condition of every planning application approved. I'm sure at the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the applicant to read and understand the conditions imposed on them and they can choose to accept the conditions and move forward or not. If the conditions become outdated then they can make an application to amend the existing conditions.
6. With regards to the 'summer always used to be May to October' comment, does anyone have the numbers to show if LBA would have stayed within the 2920 quota (2800 plus 120 carry over) for summer 2022?

Anyway, these are just my thoughts and I'm as disappointed as everyone else that we've got to where we are, but surely there's some very highly paid people at LBA who seem to have taken their eye off the ball and should be able to look at the proposed schedules and work out how many movements they're going to have.

Thanks

Great first time post. Thanks for taking the time to do the research. Its a timely reminder of the facts.

 

[Aviador]

@GrimUpNorth welcome to Forums4airports!

 

[The Pole]

BBC new article title -

Leeds Bradford Airport breached night-time flight limit by 747​

I must have missed the 747 coming in

 

[Finger66]

GALBA do spout a lot of mumbo jumbo!!

 

[LBA4EVER]

BBC new article title -

Leeds Bradford Airport breached night-time flight limit by 747​

I must have missed the 747 coming in

Thats what i thought too, what an amusing figure haha too many boeing 747s must be landing in the early hrs!

 

[Len Fish]

Just a pity Concorde isn’t still flying to arrange a few night time visits just to annoy you know who.

 

[Aviador]

Just a pity Concorde isn’t still flying to arrange a few night time visits just to annoy you know who.

We know the vociferous lot who campaign against LBA and have done for years don't care about noise. They have an agenda which is ultimately to close the airport. Aircraft could be flying on hydrogen and make no noise whatsoever and these people would still find a reason to campaign against the airport. The media have been nobbled by these campaigners, this is proven in the rubbish we've seen published by some of these media outlets and on the BBC Look North programme, which has always supported Doncaster airport yet continues to find fault in Leeds Bradford airport.

 

[The Pole]

I may have a word with Spenser Stokes when I see him wandering around Horsforth to ask why they are so anti LBA

 

[Finger66]

I will pay for his removal lorry Horsforth to Doncaster. Because I say get out of you don't like it. The airport was here before you were! And that applies to anyone else besides SS - crank

 

[Jetchaser]

We know the vociferous lot who campaign against LBA and have done for years don't care about noise. They have an agenda which is ultimately to close the airport. Aircraft could be flying on hydrogen and make no noise whatsoever and these people would still find a reason to campaign against the airport. The media have been nobbled by these campaigners, this is proven in the rubbish we've seen published by some of these media outlets and on the BBC Look North programme, which has always supported Doncaster airport yet continues to find fault in Leeds Bradford airport.

I just don't get why LN should hate LBA and love Doncaster...could it be, a lot of their staff live in NW Leeds? Surely opening Doncaster again will be bad for the environment there, but they never question that

 

[oldendays]

I just don't get why LN should hate LBA and love Doncaster...could it be, a lot of their staff live in NW Leeds? Surely opening Doncaster again will be bad for the environment there, but they never question that

It could be related to Look North's apparent love affair with all things South Yorkshire, especially Sheffield.

 

[Finger66]

Perhaps they need a name change then and their 2nd word becoming the opposite of what it is now!

 

[Easy289]

Fook North may be more apt

 

[White Heather]

It could be related to Look North's apparent love affair with all things South Yorkshire, especially Sheffield.

Suspect that arose from the fact Look North is based in Leeds , which doesn't go down that well in Sheffield, so a perceived need to prove that actually, Sheffield and it's goings on are very important to us. Even so, the obvious bias against LBA may well be more to do with the reporter and where he lives. As with many who hate having an airport on the doorstep they moved to, they see DSA as the saviour and a place to move aviation to so it doesn't bother them . Someone else's doorstep!

 

[Jetchaser]

Suspect that arose from the fact Look North is based in Leeds , which doesn't go down that well in Sheffield, so a perceived need to prove that actually, Sheffield and it's goings on are very important to us. Even so, the obvious bias against LBA may well be more to do with the reporter and where he lives. As with many who hate having an airport on the doorstep they moved to, they see DSA as the saviour and a place to move aviation to so it doesn't bother them . Someone else's doorstep!

So totally bias reporting which the BBC shout out they don't do!! Surely we should be questioning the editorial team for an explanation, and it might hold more weight as a collective rather than an individual.