Airport seeks legal clarification on night flying

[Len Fish]

Leeds Bradford Airport seeking night exemption for quieter planes

Leeds Bradford Airport wants quieter aircraft to be exempt from an overnight flying limit.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Aviador]

It infuriates me that the BBC gives so much screen time and website space to GALBA. They only have a small number of members. The replies in favour of the airport on social media clearly shows the depth of support for the airport but they don't seem to care about that.

 

[JRP]

We should just stop paying are TV licence to the BBC, with all there bias reporters

 

[mdobuk21]

Those people they interview on look Sheffield boil my piss.

 

[White Heather]

Those people they interview on look Sheffield boil my piss.

And the woman bought a house within yards of the runway approach lights. One built after the runway was there. Then complains. Idiot.

 

[The Pole]

And the woman bought a house within yards of the runway approach lights. One built after the runway was there. Then complains. Idiot.

I've said before why buy a house on Scotland estate?
I once went to view a house on there in 90s i love planes but could see pilots eyes in a F27 and sensibly decided not to buy as airport will only get busier and property will not increase in value!
More fool the idiots for doing so and continue to do so

 

[Aviador]

And the woman bought a house within yards of the runway approach lights. One built after the runway was there. Then complains. Idiot.

She said she was there before night flights started.... so why the hell would she stay after over 20 years with such horrific noise.

 

[White Heather]

She said she was there before night flights started.... so why the hell would she stay after over 20 years with such horrific noise.

Even if she moved in between 1984 snd 1994 when night flights were banned, common sense suggests that the ban could be overturned via a planning application, as it was. Prior to 1984 LBA could fly at night but didn't as the short runway meant jets on holiday routes couldn't operate. Scheduled services were done by 10pm so the deserted airport closed. But, it was a common occurrence to hear Dart engines running late at night in the hangar - something that isn't allowed now.

 

[Statto]

Personally I think their PR strategy is an unmitigated shambles. Their pitch to the general public is basically ‘we’re a group of middle class boomers that bought houses in wealthy parts of Leeds near the airport but we really hate the airport going about its business’ Unsurprisingly this entitled NIMBYism down like a lead balloon across lots of groups:

- it plays badly to the whole generation that can’t afford a house anywhere, let alone in the wealthy northern suburbs of Leeds

- it plays badly to the people who directly or indirectly depend on the airport for their livelihood

- it plays badly to the many people that did willingly buy houses near the airport and are fed up at being spoken for by a minority (of which I am one)

- and of course it plays really badly to the people who scrimp and save to get away on holiday or visit friends and family. GALBA’s attacks on the airport are of course really a direct attack on all these people. And as much as GALBA desperately try and lay all the blame on the airport management, the general public aren’t stupid. They know it’s their holiday plans GALBA want to stop, change or just make more expensive and inconvenient.

The net result of this is unsurprisingly the almost unanimously negative feedback to them on social media channels. And sticking someone on TV moaning about noise with the approach lights in their garden just adds fuel to the flames

Even if she moved in between 1984 snd 1994 when night flights were banned, common sense suggests that the ban could be overturned via a planning application, as it was.

1987 was the first attempt to tackle the night flying curfew. It being evident only 2 or 3 years after the runway extension opened that airlines would not place expensive assets into somewhere that had rigid and inflexible operations.

In that regard, the economics behind that haven’t really changed. What Gordon Dennison highlighted as a problem 40 years ago is the same one Vince Hodder is trying to fix

 

[HX3]

The lady on Scotland Lane perhaps needs to move on with her life if it is ruining her sleep- why would anyone allow something to impact their life to such a degree and not take action to resolve things for 20 plus years. Perhaps a McCarthy and Stone in Scarborough may suit her better?

 

[White Heather]

The lady on Scotland Lane perhaps needs to move on with her life if it is ruining her sleep- why would anyone allow something to impact their life to such a degree and not take action to resolve things for 20 plus years. Perhaps a McCarthy and Stone in Scarborough may suit her better?

The sea makes far too much noise in Scarborough, plus there's all those annoying tourists.

Personally I think their PR strategy is an unmitigated shambles. Their pitch to the general public is basically ‘we’re a group of middle class boomers that bought houses in wealthy parts of Leeds near the airport but we really hate the airport going about its business’ Unsurprisingly this entitled NIMBYism down like a lead balloon across lots of groups:

- it plays badly to the whole generation that can’t afford a house anywhere, let alone in the wealthy northern suburbs of Leeds

- it plays badly to the people who directly or indirectly depend on the airport for their livelihood

- it plays badly to the many people that did willingly buy houses near the airport and are fed up at being spoken for by a minority (of which I am one)

- and of course it plays really badly to the people who scrimp and save to get away on holiday or visit friends and family. GALBA’s attacks on the airport are of course really a direct attack on all these people. And as much as GALBA desperately try and lay all the blame on the airport management, the general public aren’t stupid. They know it’s their holiday plans GALBA want to stop, change or just make more expensive and inconvenient.

The net result of this is unsurprisingly the almost unanimously negative feedback to them on social media channels. And sticking someone on TV moaning about noise with the approach lights in their garden just adds fuel to the flames



1987 was the first attempt to tackle the night flying curfew. It being evident only 2 or 3 years after the runway extension opened that airlines would not place expensive assets into somewhere that had rigid and inflexible operations.

In that regard, the economics behind that haven’t really changed. What Gordon Dennison highlighted as a problem 40 years ago is the same one Vince Hodder is trying to fix

Yes. We formed the Airport Support Group that year and participated in the public inquiry.

Its was always the case until the millenium that if the airport won a planning application, the council gave with one hand and took away something with the other. We get a an extended runway in 1984 but night flights are banned which still brought problems for tour operators and prevented based aircraft. Then we get 24h in 1994, but the annual movement limit is introduced, which unlike most airports, seemingly included nothing to allow for future technical innovation with aircraft engines.

Its easy to understand why LBA are doing all they can to avoid a planning application whilst the CLEUD option is there.

 

[markietg]

I loved the way she said it’s “relentless…one after another after another after another” then in her next sentence “in a short space of time”
Well what is it Susan??? It’s got to be one or the other, either it’s all night or just in a short space of time

 

[HX3]

It’s the delirium, she’s simply drained. Fresh enough for Spencer though

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

They picked a windy day to add to the clout. I’d like her to be interviewed on a lovely sunny day, when Jet2 and Ryanair are flinging them out an every 15 minutes. Or maybe 4 in 5 minutes then nothing for 50 mines to hour and half. Said day no one gives a monkey. Wind doesn’t carry the noise.

 

[JRP]

Well if you look on street view you can see which street she was on the poor lady, might take my bike up there and rev it like hell at 3 in the morning

 

[The Pole]

I loved the way she said it’s “relentless…one after another after another after another” then in her next sentence “in a short space of time”
Well what is it Susan??? It’s got to be one or the other, either it’s all night or just in a short space of time

But they don't take off at night!
Only landing!
Maybe a late take off around 10 or a go around at 3 am and maybe a 530 take off!
I must say we seem to have had a long period of 14 take offs in the mornings. Doesn't bother me as up at 6 and they are back up if alarm doesn't go off

 

[Snackbar]

Comes to something when you get a local Conservative Cllr supporting that group! This was posted today on the Menston community FB group….
LBA CLEUD application number 26/00926/CLE.

“I have received about 50 representations today regarding night-time flights, urging me to write to Leeds City Council. That having been said, I have already working with/liaising with GALBA on this and other issues, and have previously corresponded with Leeds Council on this matter, see https://lbfl.co.uk/what-counts-towards-lba-night-time-quota-2/

The closing date for comments was March 26th, as detailed at https://news.leeds.gov.uk/news/update-on-new-night-time-flying-application-by-leeds-bradford-airport

Like most planning applications, the burden and type of proof required is often beyond what the public would ordinarily consider evidence. So let's start off with some of the less complex issues.

1. CASPER at LBA had been faulty at LBA, although I don't have specific dates. CASPER is the system that records sound levels during the night-time period, and records arrivals and departures. The issue was that CASPER indicated that there were more aircraft at the airport than were actually at the airport. This system fault was eventually flagged up, but after how long?

2. Night-time flight are permitted under EG_Sup_2022_004, the rules apply to Heathrow, Gatwick and Stanstead, but apply to LBA too. Under those regulations we have:

Table 1 – proposed structure of the night flight regime, October 2025 to 2028

Airport Season Movement limit Noise quota limit

Heathrow Winter 2,550 2,415
Heathrow Summer 3,250 2,735
Gatwick Winter 3,250 1,785
Gatwick Summer 11,200 5,150
Stansted Winter 5,600 3,310
Stansted Summer 8,100 4,650

Responses are under condition 6 of the website.

Regards,

Bob

 

[White Heather]

Comes to something when you get a local Conservative Cllr supporting that group! This was posted today on the Menston community FB group….
LBA CLEUD application number 26/00926/CLE.

“I have received about 50 representations today regarding night-time flights, urging me to write to Leeds City Council. That having been said, I have already working with/liaising with GALBA on this and other issues, and have previously corresponded with Leeds Council on this matter, see https://lbfl.co.uk/what-counts-towards-lba-night-time-quota-2/

The closing date for comments was March 26th, as detailed at https://news.leeds.gov.uk/news/update-on-new-night-time-flying-application-by-leeds-bradford-airport

Like most planning applications, the burden and type of proof required is often beyond what the public would ordinarily consider evidence. So let's start off with some of the less complex issues.

1. CASPER at LBA had been faulty at LBA, although I don't have specific dates. CASPER is the system that records sound levels during the night-time period, and records arrivals and departures. The issue was that CASPER indicated that there were more aircraft at the airport than were actually at the airport. This system fault was eventually flagged up, but after how long?

2. Night-time flight are permitted under EG_Sup_2022_004, the rules apply to Heathrow, Gatwick and Stanstead, but apply to LBA too. Under those regulations we have:

Table 1 – proposed structure of the night flight regime, October 2025 to 2028

Airport Season Movement limit Noise quota limit

Heathrow Winter 2,550 2,415
Heathrow Summer 3,250 2,735
Gatwick Winter 3,250 1,785
Gatwick Summer 11,200 5,150
Stansted Winter 5,600 3,310
Stansted Summer 8,100 4,650

Responses are under condition 6 of the website.

Regards,

Bob

What a load of nonsense! A Bradford Tory Councillor?

 

[Snackbar]

What a load of nonsense! A Bradford Tory Councillor?

Yep - needless to say he is up for election…..He sits on the ACC so you may know off him…..

 

[White Heather]

Yep - needless to say he is up for election…..He sits on the ACC so you may know off him…..

Fortunately I don't, but given the actual facts have been repeatedly given at the ACC, he has no excuse for issuing stuff like this. I mean, what is he even saying??

Once again, for the avoidance of doubt, this is NOT a planning application . It's a matter of whether or not LBA has inadvertantly breached a planning approval for 10 years without LCC taking enforcement action, so writing to LCC spouting tripe won't achieve much other than filling the bin. We know LCC never did take enforcement action, so the only issue is whether LBA can supply evidence of continual breach between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2019. If they do, and LCC accept the evidence, then the law states clearly those aircraft are now exempt from enforcement and able to operate going forward.

I wonder what is the point of councillors attending (assuming he actually has) and then failing to grasp the situation?