Airport seeks legal clarification on night flying

[White Heather]

Leeds Bradford Airport

Leeds Bradford Airport welcomes Leeds City Council’s decision today on the operation of night flights at LBA. Read more here at https://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/the-latest/cleud-decision

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[gcoabc1]

Leeds Bradford Airport

Leeds Bradford Airport welcomes Leeds City Council’s decision today on the operation of night flights at LBA. Read more here at https://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/the-latest/cleud-decision

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Great News.

 

[JRP]

Great news

Does the MAX and NEO then count towards the night movements?

 

[Aviador]

Could be wrong but I work that out as 4.4 extra movements per 24 hour period between the 31 March and 31 October?

 

[White Heather]

Great news

Does the MAX and NEO then count towards the night movements?

Only after 941 have operated at night.

The way I understand this is we have 941 of the MAX/NEO/E195-2 type that can operate before those types count towards the quota. Beyond that they count.

In an average summer season there are around 30 weeks, roughly 215 days. On those days we currently have up to 3 of these aircraft potentially departing between 0600 and 0700 (2 x Ryanair, 1x KLM). That amounts to 645 movements, none of which would count towards the quota.

On top, there would be a further 296, which would also not count. Winter is 5 months, roughly 152 days but we usually have 1 x MAX and (now) 1 x E195-2. That is 304 more night movements before 0700 on these aircraft types. So, effectively, we are getting our pre 0700 movements on these types for free. All year. Only the summertime late night arrivals plus the few very early Jet2 departures (before 0700) would count towards the quota. It's almost like LBA and the council have reached a compromise which recognises that 0600-0700 counting as night is ridiculous.

The other positive is that this could have gone horribly wrong with the MAX/NEO/E195-2/A220 etc prohibited from operating at all as they were not specified in the planning approval (no surprise, didn't exist). That would have forced an urgent planning application, opening the door to who knows what. The fact these types are now exempt from enforcement action and effectively now permitted, is massive.

For me, this outcome smacks of a negotiated compromise favouring LBA, giving G****A nothing but a bullet in the foot, and allowing time in the future to negotiate a completely new night flight system based on noise exposure rather than movements.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Based on the main summer season that runs from roughly 1st may to 31st oct which is really when LBA would need the additional night flights the 941 figure divided up works out at 5 extra avai flights during night hrs.
Great news and a step in the right direction!

 

[Aviador]

If correct that would be similar to what the airport would have achieved as part of the former new terminal plans, as you say effectively cancelling out the majority of the movements between 06:00 and 07:00.

It could work out as more if unused winter movements roll over to the summer?

Take into account the possibility of the A321N rather than the 737s and we could see some half decent growth.

 

[LBA4EVER]

If correct that would be similar to what the airport would have achieved as part of the former new terminal plans, as you say effectively cancelling out the majority of the movements between 06:00 and 07:00.

It could work out as more if unused winter movements roll over to the summer?

Correct i dont think LBA use the full 1200 movements aloud in winter very often?

 

[Snackbar]

Here is the actual approved CLUED…https://publicaccess.leeds.gov.uk/o...AL_LAWFUL_DEVELOPMENT_CERTIFICATE-6612792.pdf

 

[Len Fish]

The 200 was just my quick calculation based upon what g****BA claimed LBA had exceeded their previous night time quota by….Suspect the devil is really in the detail on this one….If LBA are happy with it that’s all good. They are the ones who liaise daily with their airline partners and dictate the airport strategy.

We all know at some point a point another planning application will be needed and it’s better to try and keep LCC on board!

Meanwhile - Oh dear, how sad, never mind https://www.galba.uk/news-updates/new-legal-advice-cleud-does-not-mean-planes-are-exempt-from-night-

G…BA can whinge all they like and employ all the lawyers they want but the fact remains LBA have thankfully won this one.

 

[752]

I always feel LCC plays devils advocate but does support LBA. It’s a great outcome and hopefully LBA can capitalise. If they need more get another application in. If it wasn’t for the 20 people in that group with nothing better to do, the airport could be better position. Going forward and with the DSA rumours it doesn’t suffocate LBA as much.

 

[Finger66]

If correct that would be similar to what the airport would have achieved as part of the former new terminal plans, as you say effectively cancelling out the majority of the movements between 06:00 and 07:00.

It could work out as more if unused winter movements roll over to the summer?

Take into account the possibility of the A321N rather than the 737s and we could see some half decent growth.

At the last community event, VH referenced pax targets achievable with fewer stands needed due to larger aircraft. KLM already seem to be committed to that so I would now say watch this space re others..........

 

[White Heather]

Correct i dont think LBA use the full 1200 movements aloud in winter very often?

Never have. Probably never will.

 

[LBA4EVER]

At the last community event, VH referenced pax targets achievable with fewer stands needed due to larger aircraft. KLM already seem to be committed to that so I would now say watch this space re others..........

Also maybe airlines such as easyjet have been holding back on expansion due to the uncertainty reg the CLUED but now we have confirmation of extra night time flights avai esp to max and neo operators perhaps an airline will up its offerings,

 

[lbaspotter]

Also maybe airlines such as easyjet have been holding back on expansion due to the uncertainty reg the CLUED but now we have confirmation of extra night time flights avai esp to max and neo operators perhaps an airline will up its offerings!

941 extra slots is a great outcome for LBA, about time a decision went there way for once.

I suspect Jet2, Ryanair & easyJet have all been watching closely.
Hence why I think Ryanair applied for all those extra slots for this summer but didn’t take them up. It may also be the deciding factor in bringing in an easyJet base.

 

[ChrisBBB]

A few of the comments that I’m reading talk about the seats being generated by the extra night movements as quite small (e.g 38,000). Those numbers relate only to night movements, though.
There’s potential for those extra night movements to be operated by extra based aircraft, which would see a day time uplift also.
One night movement (early departure or late arrival) could mean an extra five day time movements for example, so it’s not as insignificant as might first appear

 

[Aviador]

One night movement (early departure or late arrival) could mean an extra five day time movements for example, so it’s not as insignificant as might first appear

Yes I thought that too. In fact with three daily rotations it means even more as only one slot would be needed for outside the current daytime operating hours.

 

[Finger66]

A couple of based LS A21Ns, a U2 base, perhaps a 4th based FR, KL continuing with E295 and it will soon start to add up pax wise. The one downside to this positive CLEUD outcome is the current stand off between the Orange Man and the IRGC which is generally tempering things. Get that sorted and it could be "boom" (hopefully sonic boom for they who shall not be named) time for LBA

Not to mention all LS 733s gone by next year so will be replaced by something bigger, whatever that "something" turns out to be

Also wonder, if as an outside bet, a lightish blue airline might turn up Totally Unexpectedly Interested!

 

[Speedbird1]

A couple of based LS A21Ns, a U2 base, perhaps a 4th based FR, KL continuing with E295 and it will soon start to add up pax wise. The one downside to this positive CLEUD outcome is the current stand off between the Orange Man and the IRGC which is generally tempering things. Get that sorted and it could be "boom" (hopefully sonic boom for they who shall not be named) time for LBA

Not to mention all LS 733s gone by next year so will be replaced by something bigger, whatever that "something" turns out to be

Also wonder, if as an outside bet, a lightish blue airline might turn up Totally Unexpectedly Interested!

Not wanting to temper excitement here but if we have to count all QC aircraft does that not realistically mean that a large chunk of the “extra” movements are taken up by these already as we are effectively counting movements as GALBA were and not with them exempt as LBA claimed?

Therefore we do get some extra headroom but nowhere near enough to start basing 2-3 aircraft as the likes of easyJet would want. Could possibly eek out an extra based aircraft but the airport will be playing it safe as it’s clear any further breaches on these terms would result in enforcement.

What it does do is reset the baseline to ensure the airport are fully compliant with current planning, hence the airports happiness over the ruling. This could be crucial in their argument should a new planning application go in, which I still fully expect to happen.

 

[Aviador]

I've just been asking Google and here is its interpretation:

By granting the CLEUD for 941 movements, the council has officially ruled that these specific flights are immune from enforcement. Crucially, they have confirmed that these 941 movements do not count towards the 2,800 or 1,200 seasonal caps.
Before the CLEUD: 2,800 total summer movements (including the 941 quieter flights).
After the CLEUD: 2,800 seasonal movements PLUS the 941 "grandfathered" movements.
Where the 1,500 Figure Comes From
The "1,500" figure is the estimated total of newly available slots across the full calendar year once you combine the confirmed 941 baseline with other operational adjustments.
The 941 Base: This is the immediate "refund" of slots. Because these 941 movements no longer "eat into" the 2,800/1,200 quotas, the airport effectively gains 941 "fresh" slots within those existing quotas that it can now legally allocate to other flights.
The "Buffer" Maths: When you spread these 941 slots and combine them with the 10% "carry-over" rule (which allows unused flights from winter to be moved to summer), the airport's total operational ceiling for the year rises significantly.
Modern Fleet Efficiency: Because the council also confirmed that aircraft rated below 87 EPNdB (like the A321neo and B737-MAX) are the only ones that can use these slots, the 1,500 figure represents the total "growth headroom" for a modern-fleet airline to expand its base without hitting the legal buffers that caused the friction in 2022-2024.
What This Means for a New Base
For a carrier like easyJet, the problem with LBA has always been the risk of "quota exhaustion." No airline wants to base an aircraft worth £50m at an airport only to be told in August that they can't fly before 07:00 because the summer cap has been reached.
This decision eliminates that risk. By "banking" the 941 flights as a permanent baseline, LBA has effectively reset the clock on its seasonal quotas. It provides enough "unclogged" space for:
Jet2 to fully transition its new, quieter A321neo fleet into the night schedule.
Ryanair to increase its based aircraft from 3 to 5, utilizing the "freed up" space in the 2,800 cap.
A New Entrant to secure a consistent "first wave" of 06:00 departures, which was previously impossible because the quota was "full."
In short, the 941 figure isn't a limit—it's a legal shield. By moving those flights out of the quota, the airport has "unlocked" the remaining capacity for nearly 1,500 additional movements per year, providing the operational stability required for serious airline investment.