Leeds Bradford Airport’s Expansion Plans Under Public Inquiry

[BCFC]

With a base of 7 B737/300s.

No don't be silly, those will stay at LBA.

 

[Statto]

current reality is that this is a massive handicap to the airport and will impact any potential new carriers, frequency additions etc. I’m sure the airport are all over this and hopefully some better resolution can be found, I think that larger aircraft and reduced frequencies may help, but then we may find that some routes lose some additional frequencies. Either way this is a really unhelpful position to be in.

It will be good to understand the airport position and next steps, as uncertainty is also not good for business and forum members.

I’ll ask the question again. If this is such a big deal and a ‘massive handicap’ why have the airport, it’s owners and the banks, embarked on such a massive investment in terminal capacity, new stands, new senior personal (new senior head of route development joined only last month). The council rejected the first CLUED all the way back in March 2024, so the fact these were not likely to succeed has been a very obvious risk for a long time. And a lot of the big investments they have made has happened since then.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that they are very confident in the future regardless of the CLUED outcome, but I’m interested in other explanations

 

[Bantamzen]

At this rate Jet2 will be going to DSA if it reopens.

View attachment 32660

Going where? DSA? Never heard of it....

Nah, there's pretty much no chance of them moving to DSA, unless Doncaster Council would want to cover the cost of moving their entire base, offices, staff, equipment, as well as give them the apron space they need to carry on BAU. Nah there's more chance of me becoming the CEO of Jet2 as there is DSA attracting a move.

What the LBA board need to do is box a little bit clever. Carry on paying the fines, but keep negotiating with LCC. Tell the egos there that an extension on the current limits will allow future expansion, meaning potentially more jobs for the area, and that they'll get all the media credit if those become a reality. It's what councillors, especially Labour ones love, the opportunity to stand in front of something and claim credit for "making it happen". Look at Ros Jones in Donny, or Mayor Brabin, they can't wait to jump in front of the cameras for that photo opp, even when there's actually very little or nothing to claim credit for! I'm actually still surprised Brabin didn't show up at Valley Parade when City (or the other place to the east) got promoted, she missed a trick there...

But seriously LBA still hold plenty of cards. At a time when the economy is starting to struggle, and cuts to public services loom on the horizon, an economic good news story would be like curry to a p***head for LCC. What would they rather have reported, a handful of crusty NIMBYs celebrating existing limits to stick, or being able to announce more employment opportunities? The trick is to make them think it was their idea!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I’ll ask the question again. If this is such a big deal and a ‘massive handicap’ why have the airport, it’s owners and the banks, embarked on such a massive investment in terminal capacity, new stands, new senior personal (new senior head of route development joined only last month). The council rejected the first CLUED all the way back in March 2024, so the fact these were not likely to succeed has been a very obvious risk for a long time. And a lot of the big investments they have made has happened since then.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that they are very confident in the future regardless of the CLUED outcome, but I’m interested in other explanations

Yes, Im sure this outcome will have been anticipated and that there is a 'plan b'.

Going where? DSA? Never heard of it....

Nah, there's pretty much no chance of them moving to DSA, unless Doncaster Council would want to cover the cost of moving their entire base, offices, staff, equipment, as well as give them the apron space they need to carry on BAU. Nah there's more chance of me becoming the CEO of Jet2 as there is DSA attracting a move.

What the LBA board need to do is box a little bit clever. Carry on paying the fines, but keep negotiating with LCC. Tell the egos there that an extension on the current limits will allow future expansion, meaning potentially more jobs for the area, and that they'll get all the media credit if those become a reality. It's what councillors, especially Labour ones love, the opportunity to stand in front of something and claim credit for "making it happen". Look at Ros Jones in Donny, or Mayor Brabin, they can't wait to jump in front of the cameras for that photo opp, even when there's actually very little or nothing to claim credit for! I'm actually still surprised Brabin didn't show up at Valley Parade when City (or the other place to the east) got promoted, she missed a trick there...

But seriously LBA still hold plenty of cards. At a time when the economy is starting to struggle, and cuts to public services loom on the horizon, an economic good news story would be like curry to a p***head for LCC. What would they rather have reported, a handful of crusty NIMBYs celebrating existing limits to stick, or being able to announce more employment opportunities? The trick is to make them think it was their idea!

I think negotiations on the old agreement are over. As WH said the next step could be an injunction and if that isnt adhered to presumably the CEO would be prosecuted.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes, Im sure this outcome will have been anticipated and that there is a 'plan b'.


I think negotiations on the old agreement are over. As WH said the next step could be an injunction and if that isnt adhered to presumably the CEO would be prosecuted.

There's always going to be scope for negotiation even behind closed doors, be it for the existing agreement or for a new application. This is where LBA need to box clever, if the council went down the injunction route that could lead to a loss of interest from existing operators, which in turn would lead to a loss of jobs in the area. They who cannot be mentioned have had their "victory", and political gain had for the council. But the council cannot afford any serious loss in the area, the next 3-4 years are going to be pivotal for both main parties and bad news stories that lay the blame on either will be especially toxic. LCC just needs a gentle reminder of this, and that they could work with LBA to in fact create a good news story instead.

 

[Aviador]

Coupled with the introduction of some A21Ns from Jet2 would also help reduce the number of actual a/c movements. And don't get me, or most others, started on the B733s

I say to hell with introducing newer aircraft. That would remove the incentive for Leeds City Council to back a new application for incentivised use of quieter aircraft. Bear in mind, aircraft already using the airport through the night used to be regarded as quiet aircraft. If the airport moves to quieter aircraft through the night, GALBA and the council will insist the limit stays the same.

I’ll ask the question again. If this is such a big deal and a ‘massive handicap’ why have the airport, it’s owners and the banks, embarked on such a massive investment in terminal capacity, new stands, new senior personal (new senior head of route development joined only last month).

The airport did say the work needed to happen anyway as a process of renewal.

 

[HX3]

Well at some point they will have to @LBAYORKIE

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Well at some point they will have to @LBAYORKIE

Which of my points are you responding to?

 

[Statto]

The airport did say the work needed to happen anyway as a process of renewal.

The scope of works for a renewal is considerably smaller than what they have done. They have quite clearly invested heavily to create more capacity to grow beyond where they are today

 

[SierraHotel]

I agree Statto. The works go way beyond simply renewal. An additional 10 new stands nor is the ability for an enlarged terminal to process 3m more pax p.a.

 

[White Heather]

As of today, I am advised that LBA are taking legal counsel regarding the CLEUD decisions, and are in discussions with Leeds City Council. All options remain on the table with nothing discounted as yet. So there could be an appeal, or there could be a planning application, or they could go for the do nothing option, although I would rate the chances of doing nothing as.......literally nothing!

 

[Finger66]

Oooh good, this is starting to get juicier by the minute. Clearly it's a very important subject on the basis of the number of posts and contributors to this thread. All hail LBA

 

[HX3]

Out of interest I asked AI to compare LBA and LPL for restrictions - this is what it said. clearly quota points appears more progressive and adaptable to change.

Leeds Bradford Airport:

• The night flight period is from 23:00 to 07:00.
• LBA has a firm seasonal cap of 2,920 take-offs and landings during summer nights and 1,200 during winter nights under planning conditions.
• Aircraft must have an allocated night movement quota slot to operate at night unless exempt.
• Restrictions are strict on noisier aircraft: no departures during the night period for aircraft with quota counts 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16. The quietest aircraft (lower QC values such as 0.25 and 0.5) operate under tighter controls.
• LBA has been found in breach of its night flight limits in recent years and lost an appeal to reinterpret these limits.

Liverpool John Lennon Airport:

• Night quota period is officially from 23:30 to 06:00 with recognition of an extended night from 23:00 to 07:00.
• Liverpool operates an annual noise quota points cap of around 18,000, which limits the number and type of noisier aircraft movements.
• Strict restrictions prevent noisier aircraft (QC8 and QC16) from flying during 23:00 to 07:00 at various sub-periods.
• Liverpool uses noise quota points to manage night flights tightly, focusing on noise impact rather than a fixed number of movements alone.

Comparison:

Aspect	Leeds Bradford (LBA)	Liverpool John Lennon Airport
Night flight period	23:00 - 07:00	23:30 - 06:00 (extended 23:00 - 07:00)
Night movements cap (summer)	2,920 take-offs & landings	No fixed flight number cap, but quota points capped (~18,000 points/year)
Noise-based restrictions	No departures night for QC1, 2, 4, 8, 16; quieter planes limited by quota	No take-off/landing for QC8 and QC16 during night hours; noise quota system limits total noisier movements
Enforcement	Site-specific legal planning limits with monitoring and breach prosecutions	Night noise quota points system with scheduled restrictions based on noise categories
Breach history	Has breached night flying limits and lost legal appeals	No widely reported breaches or controversies in available data

In summary, Leeds Bradford Airport’s quota applies a fixed number cap on night movements and specifically restricts noisier aircraft types from night operations by quota categories, with strong legal enforcement due to past breaches. Liverpool uses a noise quota points system to limit night noise impact rather than strictly capping total movements, allowing more flexible but noise-controlled operations.

This means LBA has more rigid numeric limits on total night flights, while Liverpool controls night noise through a flexible quota points system targeting the noisiest aircraft movements. Both are designed to minimize noise disturbance but use slightly different methods and caps.

 

[Len Fish]

The main difference as I see it is that the Liverpool quota points system encourages the use of quieter aircraft whilst Leeds is in the straight jacket of the newer, quieter aircraft being regarded just the same as their noisier cousins for night quota purposes.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

The main difference as I see it is that the Liverpool quota points system encourages the use of quieter aircraft whilst Leeds is in the straight jacket of the newer, quieter aircraft being regarded just the same as their noisier cousins for night quota purposes.

Maybe the model for a new agreement with LCC.

 

[scottrhino]

Probably one of the most ridiculous comments in the BBC report about a couple that bought a house in Otley 2 years ago and they joined those that shall not be named to complain about the airport. Are these people for real.

I’ll buy a house on the Ouse in York and complain about flood, I’ll buy a house in Kansas and complain about tornados, I’ll buy a house on the east coast and complain about erosion, I’ll go on holiday to magaluf and complain about the nighttime noise. You get my drift and these people boil my p**s.

This country needs to get a grip of these insane individuals and tell them some home truths about how moronic they are.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Probably one of the most ridiculous comments in the BBC report about a couple that bought a house in Otley 2 years ago and they joined those that shall not be named to complain about the airport. Are these people for real.

I’ll buy a house on the Ouse in York and complain about flood, I’ll buy a house in Kansas and complain about tornados, I’ll buy a house on the east coast and complain about erosion, I’ll go on holiday to magaluf and complain about the nighttime noise. You get my drift and these people boil my p**s.

This country needs to get a grip of these insane individuals and tell them some home truths about how moronic they are.

No doubt he will be at the airports forthcoming community meeting in Otley.

So far only one person in addition to myself has said they are coming to that event- we need more to redress the imbalance.

 

[ChrisBBB]

No doubt he will be at the airports forthcoming community meeting in Otley.

So far only one person in addition to myself has said they are coming to that event- we need more to redress the imbalance.

This is something you’ve mentioned several times. I appreciate that would be ideal, but there are people (like myself) who are passionate about the airport but live out of the area, have kids, and other non working commitments (boxing and junior football, supporting sports clubs). In my case, all of the above.
It’s very difficult for some, and maybe most, to attend unfortunately.
It doesn’t mean we don’t care

And I absolutely mean the above with the best intent, not in a challenging manner

 

[Statto]

This is something you’ve mentioned several times. I appreciate that would be ideal, but there are people (like myself) who are passionate about the airport but live out of the area, have kids, and other non working commitments (boxing and junior football, supporting sports clubs). In my case, all of the above.
It’s very difficult for some, and maybe most, to attend unfortunately.
It doesn’t mean we don’t care

And I absolutely mean the above with the best intent, not in a challenging manner

I agree. And a seat taken up by one of us, is a seat not available to someone who isn’t a die hard opponent of the airport but might be concerned about exaggerated claims from GALBA and just wants to hear from the horses mouth. As I’ve said before, that’s who the airport is targeting at these meetings.

 

[pug]

Going where? DSA? Never heard of it....

Nah, there's pretty much no chance of them moving to DSA, unless Doncaster Council would want to cover the cost of moving their entire base, offices, staff, equipment, as well as give them the apron space they need to carry on BAU. Nah there's more chance of me becoming the CEO of Jet2 as there is DSA attracting a move.

What the LBA board need to do is box a little bit clever. Carry on paying the fines, but keep negotiating with LCC. Tell the egos there that an extension on the current limits will allow future expansion, meaning potentially more jobs for the area, and that they'll get all the media credit if those become a reality. It's what councillors, especially Labour ones love, the opportunity to stand in front of something and claim credit for "making it happen". Look at Ros Jones in Donny, or Mayor Brabin, they can't wait to jump in front of the cameras for that photo opp, even when there's actually very little or nothing to claim credit for! I'm actually still surprised Brabin didn't show up at Valley Parade when City (or the other place to the east) got promoted, she missed a trick there...

But seriously LBA still hold plenty of cards. At a time when the economy is starting to struggle, and cuts to public services loom on the horizon, an economic good news story would be like curry to a p***head for LCC. What would they rather have reported, a handful of crusty NIMBYs celebrating existing limits to stick, or being able to announce more employment opportunities? The trick is to make them think it was their idea!

It’s usually the airlines that are culpable for the fines. Perhaps LBA might operate differently and cover the costs themselves.

A move to DSA is unlikely. Putting a couple of aircraft in there? Perhaps but apparently this is not on the agenda according to some high ups. Jet2 are focussing on putting the NEOs in bases that will significantly cut fuel costs, hence GLA and EDI.