Airport Consultative Committee [Questions & Responses]

[KARFA]

It's also about a wider transport infrastructure. Four times in the last month I've been stuck in traffic jams with nearly two hour delays simply due to incidents at the Armley Gyratory which has literally brought the whole of the outer ring road and aretary roads to a standstill. Until there is a wider transport infrastructure we are never going to compete with MAN whose public transport offering is pretty good.

Driving around Manchester M56/M60 during peak time is no barrel of laughs either to be fair. But you are right whilst MAN has a number of public transport options, LBA has a few bus routes and that's it, as well as the lack of any motorways nearby.

 

[rmac]

And that is why the link road right to the airport is, in my opinion, very much needed thereby cutting out Rawdon and beyond! Edinburgh is proposing a new East Link Road from the City By-pass -- I bet it gets built before the LBA link road even gets started. Here in Scotland it seems to take much less time to get these projects finished than it does in Yorkshire -maybe because Scotland spends over twice as much as Yorks on infrastructure! What about progress on the LBA link road -anything happening ?, I thought the money was allocated!

 

[White Heather]

Everything takes forever here because there is always someone objecting to anything that might affect them. For years, people living in the area of the airport, who actually didn't want it to succeed, proclaimed it was in the wrong place, on top of a hill and with inadequate road or rail links. Now, there are plans to rectify both of these issues to assist LBA in growing and those very people are not objecting to both the rail station and link road (because they know only too well that they are inextricably linked together - the rail station needs a park and ride to be financially viable and the park and ride won't happen without the link road which needs to be Option A). So they object and do all they can to slow down progress or stop it altogether.

Of course the current climate debate has given them a great opportunity to disguise themselves as planet lovers, rather than folk who want the airport development to stop to suit their own purposes. The Extinction Rebellion protests against LBA development earlier this year included various folk who live in the vicinity of the airport - a fact their spokesperson even confirmed when claiming the people of NW Leeds were tired of having aircraft dropping fuel on them! Nice to see that the old chestnuts are still alive and well - they truly believe that vapour coming off the slats whilst landing is the aircraft dumping fuel! Sadly it has always been the case too that some councillors or MPs support these people for their own political gain. They don't gain my vote though, they lose it.

What I will say with regard to the debate over accessing MAN compared to LBA though (as far as road traffic is concerned), is that if there is an incident in Leeds and roads are affected, and if you know the city of have a decent sat nav, there are numerous other ways to get to LBA without taking hours over it. Where there is an accident on the M62, you could literally be stuck on the motorway with no options and nowhere to go, as I was some years ago. Personally I hate the drive to MAN with a passion and have rarely done it without some form of accident causing major hold ups. Last time I drove back from MAN (bringing my sister back from her Emirates flight to Leeds), the M62 was shut near Huddersfield and the journey back took 5 hours. I could drive to LBA from Leeds via York and take less time!

 

[LBA4EVER]

Fabulous report WH...you are a star. I'm hopeful about some really positive change.

I know this is semantics but I thought the previous terminal development was being sited as a 'major' development under the leadership of David Laws. I think we are in danger of being caught up in an Emperor wears new clothes scenario if we aren't careful.
Also, what difference would the election have on the terminal development? no specific things have been mentioned in any of the manifestos that would impact on a development.
The only impact politically might be Brexit but whichever party gets in; post election, this looks set to rumble on for years.
I'm also struggling to understand why the development of the airport is focussed on flying times and quotas at night time..the airport has massive gaps throughout the day where the terminal is empty when it could utilise this much needed capacity outside of the 'golden hour' of early flights. The real elephant in the room is attracting airlines from MAN to LBA. Airlines like Emirates won't have a dual operation within 50 miles of a major base. And, even with the proposed tram/train link off shoot to LBA, for people in York and North Yorks it's still easier to hop on one train and arrive on the door at MAN.
It's also about a wider transport infrastructure. Four times in the last month I've been stuck in traffic jams with nearly two hour delays simply due to incidents at the Armley Gyratory which has literally brought the whole of the outer ring road and aretary roads to a standstill. Until there is a wider transport infrastructure we are never going to compete with MAN whose public transport offering is pretty good.

The traffic and road infrastructure in Leeds is absolutely terrible, in Leeds now the rush hour is litrally anytime of day and between 3-7pm if you have to make a journey across the city forget it! Most major road junctions just come to gridlock more so than any other city ive noticed, in fact I was in London a few weeks back and yes they was bad traffic but it did keep moving, in Leeds everything just comes to a halt and as for these so called junction improvements don't even get me started! Within my job I have to plan my day based on the traffic and what juncs will be bad at certain times! Also just 1billion spent on massive road improvements in Leeds instead of the HS2 would really help solve the gridlocked leeds roads. But nothing will ever be done,we will all be sat here in ten years time still waiting for link roads,major road improvements etc
Leeds is the 3rd largest stand alone city in england with so much development within the city centre but reg transport infrastructure its lost out big time, no underground, no supertram, the buses just get stuck in the traffic, junctions and roads are too small and not wide enough to cope with the volume of traffic but hey lets bang in aload of ridiculous traffic calming measures,cycle lanes just to piss everyone off abit more!

 

[LBA4EVER]

But like WH says if you get stuck trying to get to MAN on the m62 your F***** but LBA you got the side roads!

 

[a300boy]

I have to say my recent trip to Oz and New Zealand from Manchester with Singapore Airlines was a breeze.
A minibus picked us up at our house and dropped us about 100 yds from the terminal and security and check in very easy. It was pretty busy in the terminal to start with but soon became very quiet as other long haul flights departed.

 

[a300boy]

I must live as near as anybody to the Airport and having spoken to most of the neighbours in the last 6 months they are mostly very happy for the airport to expand.
What they do not want is 100 houses building in the field between our homes and the runway and will fight anything that goes with such a development and some think the link road is part of the scheme.

 

[jw2k]

Many thanks for the update @White Heather Will certainly be interesting to see what's announced in January - fingers crossed for an improved version of the terminal extension plans!

 

[Heathrowflyer]

A300 boy I agree......I've mentioned previously that the most important asset for venture capitalists at LBA is land value...I wouldn't be surprised if the terminal development is cushioned alongside proposed planning development for houses and industrial/office units....a very scaled down version of Airport City at MAN. The only real way AMP can recover any money is by selling land off for houses or building industrial units themselves and leasing these off. If there was a tram train link and improved access AMP would quite literally hit the jackpot in terms of land value for future developments. Watch this space....We all know about the terminal development and this could be the extra 'massive' part of it. In terms of fighting any developments; look at Bramhope and the 300 Miller homes being built yhere and that was on green belt land.

 

[White Heather]

Well the airport has made no secret of their plans for an industrial village on land to the rear of the old Avro Factory. It is large scale, over a number of years, and is in the Development Plan. Having such developments in the vicinity of the airport and enabling airport linked businesses to be based there is a vital part of keeping airports going these days. These plans are also another reason why the link road is going to be needed and why it needs to be Option A - otherwise all additional traffic created by this will end up on the A659, making matters even worse in Yeadon.

 

[a300boy]

Agreed that the A659 cannot cope I have to drive round Yeadon to get home from the Harrogate direction after 1600 each day as the aggressive queue of vehicles under the tunnel is best avoided.
Airport related business development is fine by me and Option A is the only credible option for a link road. I spoke to a member of Lba staff recently who told me they were aware of local feelings so let’s hope we can move forward together and see Lba develop.
Hopefully Manchester will become slot restricted and we can pick up some of the slack.

 

[Finger66]

LBA does need to catch up on investment. The clever way WH teased us in the way she reported on the ACC meeting got me thinking about the lack of LBA investment compared to others. This is what I came up with:
Manchester Airport Supports Successful Investment Verifying Expansion
The above said then the bigger and busier MAN becomes then there are likely to be some slot constraints and local transport issues so if LBA gets the much needed investment, as new management seem to recognise is needed, then we can start to reclaim some of what has been lost. Let's hope we all have a Happy New Year following the January meeting and management have New Years Resolutions to ensure 2020 is the year LBA turns a corner. Things suddenly seem a lot more promising and now political uncertainty has to some extent been resolved, let's hope it's another lesser hurdle to overcome

 

[Heathrowflyer]

To be clear my concern isnt with an airport city type development...my concern is with housing development and that is here the real money will be made for AMP. I think we have to be clear if we are in favour 1. Business/industrial unit development or 2. Swathes of housing developments. The A65 corridor towns (Horsforth, Yeadon,Guiseley) are already chocka with housing and developers will pay a high price for more.

 

[a300boy]

When it directly affects you none us want extra housing so I admit to that !
I talked my wife into down sizing and going back to a semi detached so I could have a view of the airfield and the view of the dam and field together with the birds and wildlife it brings with it was a major factor.
I do not want to loose that and neither do another 50 or so residents and anyone else who is faced with a similar situation.
My Campaign headline will be Airport YES Houses NO.
I do not pretend that I have the answers to our house building problems but after 3 weeks in New Zealand on the south island with just over 1 million population which has a similar area as the Uk it showed a serious problem of over population in the Uk which we seem unable to control.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Stated that at the present time, securing new routes or airlines was improbable due to the inability of the terminal infrastructure to cope with any more passengers at peak times, thereby denying airlines what they demand, and in addition, due to the fact that LBA is unique among UK Regional Airports in having night time quota hours of 2300 to 0700 (rather than 0600 as at other airports). LBA now has no further capacity to allow additional flights between these hours - and for those who don't know, LBA has a limit to how many aircraft movements are allowed each year between 2300 and 0700. A limit that has now been reached. This will prevent airlines from dispatching additional aircraft out of LBA before 0700 and may restrict the efficient use of their aircraft. Clearly, the only likelihood is for some additional aircraft operating outside peak hours and which are not based at LBA, until such time as the LBA Infrastructure is improved.

The CEO hasn't got that quite right.

Bristol Airport has a night movements limit per season (BST/GMT) which vary according to the season, as do that airport's night noise quota limits. The affected period is between 2330 and 0600. Both limits are now very close to being reached in summer.

However, there is an overriding annual movements limit for the period between 2300 and 0700. Such is the seriousness of that (to the airport and to its airlines) that a couple of years ago BRS successfully applied to become a Level 3 slot coordinated airport, but only in summer and only between 2300 and 0700 during that season. easyJet recently acquired some former Thomas Cook slots during the cooordinated period.

The slot coordination period is likely to be only a bandage not a cure.

 

[White Heather]

Today was the latest Airport Consultative Committee meeting, and despite a somewhat unreliable link to the meeting (which was held on Microsoft Teams), I managed to hear, if not see, most of the meeting. So here is a brief overview for your information.

Hywel Rees (CEO) update:

July and August were relatively good for passenger throughput and more than was originally expected. Even so, passenger numbers in August were just 15% of what was achieved last year. September started well but recent Government announcements on quarantine have caused an immediate downturn in traffic. As an example, the Faro route was operating at 90% capacity immediately after the quarantine rules were lifted, but when they were re-instated 2 weeks later, this dropped to just 20%. Passenger confidence in booking holidays is therefore badly damaged, not just by the Covid issue but by the way that Government have changed things at short notice, leaving holidaymakers facing quarantine when they return home. There remains no Government support for the airport sector (or aviation generally) despite intense lobbying for them to do so. A very quiet winter is anticipated as a result, but LBA will be remaining open for business.

The Jet2 check in hall (Hall B) now has its new baggage belt working and this has been very successful. Jet2 are delighted with it. Baggage capacity has increased by around 2.5 times meaning passengers can be processed more quickly with less delays and no break downs.

The security screening area has been upgraded recently and this has had a major impact on the efficiency of the process at LBA, with capacity increased from 150 per hour (per belt) to 350.

Airport cleanliness has been a focus and the terminal is now described as being cleaner and more hygienic than it has ever been, with all floors and surfaces clean and tidy and toilet facilities kept very clean at all times. This has attracted comment from customers and one Councillor member on the committee commented in support of this following her own recent flight from LBA.

Terminal Planning Process . This is now reaching its conclusion. LBA have done everything possible to ensure any new terminal will be as sustainable as possible. Hywel Rees commented that whilst 60% of people who commented, opposed the development, the 40% in favour was well above what would normally be expected. The industry norm is 20% in favour, 80% against. He indicated therefore that he was very pleased with the level of support demonstrated for this development. He mentioned Bristol airport as a typical example where 3 times as many people wrote to the council planning portal and of those 80% opposed the development.

In response to questions he re-iterated that the signs are that once the restrictions caused by Covid are lifted, there will be a relatively quick recovery in terms of passenger numbers. Airlines are planning for a 2 to 4 year recovery but the signs are that 2 years is closer to reality. Airlines for next year are showing encouraging bookings and planning for a busy summer 2021.

Business Development - Tom Holdsworth

Not a great deal to report for obvious reasons. It was confirmed that Turkish routes were doing very well through the pandemic. Newquay (Eastern Airways) has done very well since operations commenced with the result that it is now confirmed as an all year round service. Aer Lingus (Belfast City) commences a week today (1 October) with a gradual increase in services on the route planned. Ryanair have had strong demand through the pandemic for services to Eastern Europe and this has prompted the return of the route to Vilnius. Further improvements to Eastern European routes are likely from Ryanair going forward if demand remains as it is. Watch this space. LBA are continuing to discuss the return of the London Heathrow route with British Airways but they are clear that if it is to be restored in the future (Post pandemic) it needs to have timings that are suitable, specifically a night stopper. They remain hopeful that the route may be restored in time (it is currently suspended, not axed completely). However, they recognise that Teesside now has a flight by Eastern to LHR, although with very poor timings which have no connectivity or code share, and Eastern is an option that LBA would also look at if necessary.

Covid 19 issues within and outside the terminal

A presentation was done by Neil Pervis but unfortunately this coincided with a temporary loss of sound and picture on Teams, so I was unable to hear or see the vast majority. However, it was demonstrating the lengths LBA have gone to in order to ensure the safety of passengers at all stages of their passage through the terminal. All areas and touch points are sanitised frequently by wipe down and also by use of an anti bacterial fogger machine that cleans the air and surfaces. It was do stated that aircraft AC filters had been changed and these now kill Covid, greatly reducing the risk of transmission on board.

Terminal Development update - Charles Johnson

The Consultation Period is now effectively ended. The total number of comments sent to LCC Planning Portal was lower than anticipated for a planning application related to an airport with a total of 3212, only a third of what was submitted to the recent Bristol Airport application. Again it was stated that 1312 (approx 40% o)f these were supporting the application which is more than anticipated, and more than is normal for any airport planning application.

It was stated that the Leeds City Council Environmental Office report has stated that there are no grounds to reject the terminal application on the grounds of noise, or health, and it has also been confirmed that the CO2 emissions do NOT impact on local targets as they are the responsibility of Government and are controlled a national level - something we have been preaching on here for some time. It was also confirmed that contrary to claims by opponents, the application does comply with the Paris Agreement. With regard to road traffic etc. there are plans and actions which will enable LBA to get traffic emissions down to current levels even with the proposed 7m passengers per annum and possibly even lower than at present.

The LCC Plans Panel meet tomorrow at 1330 hrs and a presentation of the Position Report will be made to them by the Planning Officer. This meeting is available to view if anyone wishes to do so and is accessible on the Leeds City Council website via Plans Panel/Agenda 25/9/20 and then clicking the link. No decision will be made tomorrow - this is an opportunity for questions to be asked and answers to be obtained before any final decision is made by the panel. Overall, the tone of the presentation was very positive and LBA are clearly happy with the outcome of the report that is being presented to the Plans Panel tomorrow, which includes the information supplied by the LCC engaged Consultants, WSP.

In response to a question it was confirmed again that LBA do have planning consent (given January 2019) to expand the current terminal and grow to 7m passengers per annum and could still do this if the terminal was rejected. However it was also stated that in doing so, it would not be possible for the airport to give passengers the quality passenger experience that is required today. It was acknowledged that the public perception remains one of expansion due to the changes in day/night flying hours and the intended growth to 7m passengers by 2032, but this is not really the case and this application is about modernising, not growth. It was stated that this is a message that LBA need to get across more forcibly to counter the negative and inaccurate claims by objectors and within the press.

It was confirmed that the Parkway Station is still on track (pardon the pun). Growth Rail Improvement Process (GRIP) has 8 stages from start to finish. Stages 3 and 4 are the key stages and the Parkway Station has just completed Stage 3 - outline design. A Consultancy has now been engaged to take this forward through Stage 4 - detailed design. This is likely to take 12 months - after which it can go to tender. LBA anticipate if nothing de-rails this scheme (pardon the pun again!) the station should be open to traffic in 2024/5.

Hopefully you guys find something of interest in this update.

 

[Seasider]

Once again WH, an excellent resume of the meeting and the airport sound optimistic. I will try and watch the meeting tomorrow, should be able to follow your link.

 

[Wardair166]

Thanks as ever WH. Excellent report as ever.

 

[lbaspotter]

Thanks for the very informative update once again @White Heather

This confirms what I was told last week (Very Reliable friend) that LBA management had recently being in discussions with British Airways once again, which is good news if we get them back on the Heathrow route. Oh and regards "Ryanair" see the latest schedule update I've just posted on the LBA Ryanair thread. lol

 

[louis_walton]

The future does not seem too dull then!