Leeds Bradford: Airport Consultative Committee Questions & Responses

[Aviador]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

White Heather,

I have just visited the LBA website and there still doesn't appear to be any minutes from the last meeting. Have you received a copy at all, or do you know how long it usually takes before it becomes available online?

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

HI Aviador

No I haven't received any minutes yet. They do tend to take ages to come out. It is not unknown for them to only arrive with the documents for the next meeting, a couple of months after the meeting took place.

As soon as I get them, any information will be relayed on via this forum

 

[Bigman]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Would you be able to ask them to review the latest timetable that now appears on the website, as there are quite a few errors, which make the timetable misleading and less professional as a result.

Firstly, the Ryanair Pisa is showing on the Winter schedule, but not the Summer schedule.

Secondly, the Belfast International times seem to have been transposed as the Bergerac times, giving the impression of a twice daily service.

Thanks.

 

[Aviador]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

I trust you are referring to the timetable marked 'Full Timetable' because the one marked 'Summer Timetable 2010' looks correct.

http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/pdf/QG%20S10.pdf

 

[Bigman]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Yes, it's the 'Full Timetable'.

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Would you be able to ask them to review the latest timetable that now appears on the website, as there are quite a few errors, which make the timetable misleading and less professional as a result.

Firstly, the Ryanair Pisa is showing on the Winter schedule, but not the Summer schedule.

Secondly, the Belfast International times seem to have been transposed as the Bergerac times, giving the impression of a twice daily service.

Hi Bigman

I have already done it - as per my previous post on the general thread re Servisair and web site issues, one of the issues I discussed with the airport when they phoned me, was not only the web site, but the inaccuracy of the timetable you are referring to, and as an example I quoted the fact the Ryanair Pisa flight is missed off. When I saw that I thought they had pulled it, but it is still there on the Ryanair web site. The lady I spoke to made a note of it and said she would be getting someone to look at the timetables. I have heard this before though and although I have raised these issues several times previously at the JCC, nothing has been done. I have found the best thing to do is to send them details of the error via e mail, using the 'contact us' link on their website. They usually fix things one at a time, but the trouble is that each time they do an update, they seem to create new errors! Very frustrating.

I will raise the issue again though at the next meeting, which has now been put back to early February.

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Hi everyone

The next meeting is tomorrow and I am intending to go along - snow permitting! The minutes have now been sent out from the last meeting, so will be available on the internet to view.

 

[pilot_737]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Just reading the minutes that are currently on the website, from the meeting held last July, what is this technology we are waiting for DfT and Industry approval for technology that will allow 2 carry on items.
Isn't this technology already Approved as its at every airport in the world which allows 2 bags!

I understand the introduction of 2 bags is limited due to the size of the CSZ but surely technology can't be an issue!

 

[Aviador]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

This is a very informative video that goes some way to explain what is required.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GZ9Rn29nJU[/video]

 

[Aviador]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Hi everyone

The next meeting is tomorrow and I am intending to go along - snow permitting! The minutes have now been sent out from the last meeting, so will be available on the internet to view.

So did you make it and if so have you anything to report?

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Yes I did go. To be honest there wasn't a great deal yesterday. To summarise though, they confirmed the following:

Passenger figures expected to return to 2008/9 levels next year with an 8% - 9% increase over this year, cancelling out a decrease of similar proportions last year. (Mainly due to the presence of Ryanair)

The Ryanair crew offices etc are under contruction. My ears are still ringing as evidence as the work is going on just feet away from where the meeting was held.

Discussions are still ongoing with PIA over the replacement of the A310, particularly since this aircraft is the only one that breaks noise limits for night flights on the occsions it is delayed. The delays are principally due to tech problems.

Bookings on the TOM flights to SSH and TFS next winter are going well with significant demand.

Jet2 bookings quadrupled for the summer season compared to last year

Car Parking spaces approved by the Council will be sufficient for the airport for the 'forseeable future' once remaining 1000 or so are constructed. The airport declined to discuss the applications by Avro and Sentinel for off airport secure parking

There were no discussions regarding the terminal development and no details/dates were given to the committee.

Much of the discussion surrounded the taxi contract and there was a presentation regarding security measures at the airport. (and airports in general). There was some discussion about bus services from Harrogate

The Leeds City Region has adopted the principal of the importance of surface transport to the airport, including the tram train link from Horsforth. However, it is estimated that this will take a minimum of 10 years to come to fruition. Pity really in view of the possible World Cup in 2018.

Overall, very little of interest really and most of what we were told, I had already heard before. On this occasion I would have been better staying at work and not taking the time off to attend!

 

[Galaxy]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

What's the tram-train link from Horsforth White Heather, is this the proposed railway spur? I honestly can't understand why a station hasn't been built at Cookridge Moseley Woods for the airport, with some kind of innovative passenger movement facility in-between, such as a monorail, cable car or sky train. It would be so much cheaper and quicker than digging out a cutting from Horsforth. If I wanted to present that as an option to the airport just to make them consider it, how could I go about that?

 

[rmac]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

I thought the transport improvements were urgent and the train or tram link essential. How come it may take 10 years. We will have built the second Forth Road bridge in less time. If the airport really wants to grow it needs better surface transport and as no motorway is near the train link should be a priority.

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Yes Galaxy/rmac, this is the railway spur from Horsforth to the airport, which should then be extended through to Guiseley, providing airport links not only from the Leeds/Harrogate/York line, but also the Leeds/Ilkley and Bradford/Ilkley lines. Due to the gradients involved, it would be far more difficult to dig a normal rail line up to the airport from either line, but a tram train is capable of climbing up steeper gradients. It also has the advantage that it can come off the heavy rail system when it gets into City Centres and can run through the streets as a tram, before going back on the train lines again. Really this would be the perfect scenario, allowing the tram train to operate through City streets, but then back on the railways, and up/down steep gradients in the way trams can.

The 10 year minimum to develop it is due to the red tape involved in getting the necessary funding for schemes such as this, and the compulsory purchase orders to obtain the land to build on. The airport has reserved its own land for the tram train and a station, so that is already there and will not be developed for other purposes. The tram train system also has to be trialled for some time as it is a light rail system using a heavy rail track. It is not technology in use in this country but has been used abroad for some time. Even so I believe it has to be tested over an extended period on a trial line. Originally this was going to happen on the Hudderfield - Penistone line, although I am not sure if that is still happening or not now. In the meantime, the emphasis is on improving bus links to the airport from Leeds, Bradford, York etc.

Whatever system of transport was used, the same funding and CPO issues would arise. At least now the Leeds City Region has accepted the need is there and committed to taking it forward.

 

[rmac]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

White Heather. Many thanks for your informed comments and I can see that building a line from Horsforth to Guiseley via the airport is a huge project and costly, but as Galaxy points out is there not a case for a stage one approach by constructing a rail halt, or even the start of a spur and station on the Horsforth line and linking it to the terminal by bus. Other airports are doing something similar. Edinburgh will have a tram link right into the city but a transfer to rail will be provided at a station not that far from the airport with the added attraction of providing passengers onward connections to both Edinburgh and the north,ie Fife, Dundee etc. For LBA this would be a start and could be extended as funds etc are available. The airport and the region would certainly benefit. What if DSA gets a rail halt? Would that make DSA more attractive, to LBA,s detriment?

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

I think that there is no chance of building another rail halt. Once you go past Horsforth Station the line goes into a cutting and then into the Bramhope Tunnel. If you tried to build another halt iti would only be 500 yds or so from Horsforth, and significantly below the level of the surrounding land. There are no roads from there up toward the airport for a shuttle bus, so a compulsory purchase would be required again to take over farming land and build such a road. The most logical thing to do (in my view anyway) is to arrange for a shuttle bus to pick up passnegers from Horsforth and Guiseley (with both Stations being re-branded as Horsforth/Leeds Bradford Airport (and similar at Guiseley). The Airport could use their car park shuttles for this which are midi buses and a suitable size. However, certainly at Horsforth there would be access and egress problems getting out of the Station. Those would have to bed addressed.

I have already suggested this to the Airport last year, suggesting that as a minimum they could make this a bookable service via the airport web site, enabling passengers to book an airport pick up from either station at a standard charge. That would go some way to enabling passengers to travel to the airport by train whilst a tram train link is built. The Airport said it was worthy of consideration but I am not holdingi my breath.

Personally I think a rail link to DSA is a longo way off. Their flight availability and passenger numbers don't justify the huge expenditure and they will have exactly the same hurdles to jump as LBA does.

 

[Galaxy]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

Thanks for your comments White Heather, in relation to some of the points you have made above:

1. Yes I can see the value in the link going from Horsforth to Guiseley - that would make very good sense, ad the tram train if utilised properly into urban centres would be very good indeed - however I though the plan for Leeds Centre was now trolley buses?
2. The Penistone line is no longer getting tram trains (as far as I'm aware), or if they are it has been severely put back.
3. I still think that a Cookridge Moseley Woods station would be the easiest, cheapest and quickest solution rail wise, look at the map here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en-GB& ... 54932&z=15 Smithy Lane and Scotland Lane could easily be made to meet, or failing that a new access road from Cookridge Lane, the land there is not a deep cutting and there is a lot of unused farmland that has been left as scrub on the East side of the track adjacent to the Moseley Wood estate. Pedestrian access would also be easily manageable via Moseley Wood Gardens, and I'm sure that the number of commuters who walk / drive / bus it to Horsforth Station from Cookridge would easily support a station development, which would also take pressure off roads into the centre of Leeds from Cookridge. The distance from Horsforth station for the best site in terms of gradients and access is around 900 metres.

Anyway this is an interesting debate, and I just wanted to add my two pennoth into it!

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

To answer your previous question about how to bring your ideas to the airport's attention, I would suggest you simply write to the Airport MD outlining your thoughts. Speaking as someone who used to live at Cookridge and in the Moseley Woods, I know that there would be massive objections to providing access to a new station in the vicinity, simply because traffic would have to go through the estate, which has roads which are relatively narrow and heavily populated with parked cars much of the time. I remember only too well the uproar at the proposals to build a new housing development in Moseley Wood bottom, even though access to that was via Cookridge Avenue, which is quite wide.

You are right about Leeds going down the trolley bus route as far as future transport is concerned but that wouldn't stop a tram train operating too, although I suspect it would never become an extensive route network. I imagine that at best it would simply come off the rails to go through Leeds and then back on again, if they decided to extend it through to York for example. It is a pity that they couldn't also have a small halt at Elland Road, enabling passengers flying into LBA to just get on the tram train and go through to the ground - that would have been particularly good for the World Cup if we get it in 2018, but also for fans flying to the Leeds matches.

 

[WYIA]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

If you ask me its stupid that the airport dont use a bus like they have for car park transfers to link the terminal and Horsforth Train Station every 15 minutes. Regular trains to Leeds are available and take only ten minutes at a cost of less than £2.

No need to start building tram or rail lines. this service could be implemented in a matter of weeks.

 

[White Heather]

Re: Consultative Committee Questions [LBASG]

I totally agree and have actually raisied this at two consecutive consultative meetings. The problems are mainly that Horsforth Station is very tight for space as it is, and certainly there is no room even for a midi bus in there without alterations and possibly the loss of some car parking spaces. In addition, getting out of there to turn right up Station Road is a nightmare. Thirdly, both Scotland Lane and Bayton Lane are not ideal for buses of any description. Apart from all that, its a great idea! :smile:

However, none of those excuses can be used at Guiseley.