The government would support a runway extension at LBIA as they would at any regional airport with potential, as they do not want to have to face tackling the problem of much additional runway capacity in the southeast. They would much prefer additional runway capacity and extensions at regional airports, although this would result in London losing out even further to continental rivals such as Paris, Frankfurt, and Amsterdam who have twice as many runways as Heathrow already, as well as twice as many flights to key markets such as China.

However back to the crucial issue which is that the Councillors who have campaigned to get the PIA 777 in to LBA in order to solve this noise problem, have absolutely nil in the way of ideas as to the operational issues bringing the beast in to LBA at the moment. It would have to fly lower on approach at both ends of the runway especially 14, eradicating any potential noise reductions, and would still be delayed. If they really want to solve this problem they should use any influence they have to urge a runway extension to be built asap, and then aircraft would not need to fly as low over the affected communities, and increase the landing distance at both ends.

A loan should be able to be arranged for an expanding outlet such as LBA to enable this to happen, and therefore enable the PIA 777-200's and more importantly the 300's to come in, and therefore sort out this so called noise problem. Once PIA's 777-200 starts regularly a runway extension means that the 300 can be substituted, and therefore eradicate the problem of the flight having to be diverted to Manchester, which seems to happen at least once every month.

It would also as White Heather states mean the potential for a lot more long haul flights such as PIA to Karachi and Lahore, as well as an all important daily service to Dubai with Emirates A330-300, and then the 777-300ER, which Newcastle handles with no problems at all, with a runway which is little more than 250 ft longer than LBIA's. Ethiad and Qatar Airways could be tempted with similar daily services, as well as all important transatlantic services to the USA.

At the moment the 787 should not be a problem, as it is specifically designed for longer flights from shorter runways, although the problems they have had with it alone and the delays in its introduction these have lead to, vindicate White Heather's comment about it being a few years before regular operations commence. The poor state of PIA means there is no chance of them acquiring any Dream-liners at any time in the near future, not that they would acquire one just for the :BA service, and no one would have the right to expect them to.

The last runway extension of 1984 was built in order to bring the airport in line with other regional airports, and having visited East Midlands this week which has a 9000ft runway, and Birmingham extending theirs to around 9400ft the airport should show similar initiative and get theirs extended to at least 8400ft, or ideally to 9000ft. 1200ft should be added on Runway 14 , with the remaining 418-420 ft on Runway 32 which given the proximity to the local residential area is around the largest extension you can implement at this particular end.

As the introduction of the PIA 777 has been mooted since around the autumn of 2009 the initiative should have been taken back then, and the extension could have been built by now, and the PIA 777 would have been introduced on March 13th as planned, and all so called noise issues could have been eradicated.
 
Do you think the current owners will build a runway extension I think the answer to that is NO, I work at the airport and have been in the terminal on a few occasions at busy times recent and there is not even enough space for people to sit down apart from on the floor. Personally they have a good management team in with Micky mouse backers in bridgepoint
 
AndrewE said:
It would have to fly lower on approach at both ends of the runway especially 14, eradicating any potential noise reductions, and would still be delayed.

Cannot understand this comment - if on ILS the 777 would fly down the glideslope so it would surely be at the same height as other aircraft on approach?
 
lbaspotter said:
Concorde use to land before the thresholds on both runway 32 & 14.

That doesn't mean a PIA 777 would do so though as the displaced threshold is there for a reason.
 
Concorde used to do visual landings, not use the ILS, which is why it touched down up the end of 32 - my photos show one doing just that. I don't think there is any way that a PIA 777 would do visual approaches and do likewise, which immediately brings them on to the down slope area and the inherent problem of 'drift' down the slope. However, I cannot see Bridgepoint funding a runway extension - period. There doesn't seem to be the will to do it. As I have said previously, they do not see that the return for the investment will justify building it. The reason for that they say, quite openly, is Manchester. Most airlines will continue to use MAN for long haul, and will not use both MAN and LBA together. We may see the Pennines and M62 as a barrier and still be living the Wars of the Roses, but they don't. They see Leeds as city just 55 miles from MAN and a source of passengers, without the need to divert their operations over to Yorkshire. Sad, but true.

In terms of prestige, LBA will not be happy if they lose the Pakistan connection, but in terms of Passenger numbers and hassle, I suspect they would rather lose it than build a runway extension.

My view is that the greatest need for more runway concrete is the reduce the diversion rate. We lose more pax per year due to diversions than we would ever gain from a handful of longer haul flights. However, inbound pax spend nothing, so the airport loses little if they end up in MAN. Outbound pax often still spend money at LBA whilst waiting for a transfer elsewhere, so there is little incentive for LBA to spend mega bucks on a runway extension unless airlines are banging on the safety drum so much they have no option but to act or passengers start to desert the airport.

Personally I am sick of this negative attitude to a runway extension - LBA may be growing rapidly now, but it could and should handle longer distance flights more frequently - certainly Dubai, Florida, Canada, New York, as the demand is there. The runway length does not completely prevent this if the airlines have the right equipment, but many don't and they are not about to buy specific aircraft just so they can fly into LBA. We will only get these flights with any regularity if there is more concrete available, although even then the presence of Otley Chevin actually means that much of it would remain unused for 14 landings as aircraft already have a 3.5 degree glide slope to provide the required clearance over the Chevin.

LBA has been playing catch up with other regional airports in recent years, and it is a shame that just as they are starting to make progress, the goalposts are being moved again. So LBA will once again be left behind due to location and its impact on useable runway.
 
I notice that Saturdays flight (8th June) was operated by AP-BDZ which is in the new 'all economy' configuration.

What happens to the passengers who pay for business class in these cases? Do they get refunded the difference or if they are adamant they want to fly business they are shipped over the hill to the B777?

Can we assume this will not be the only time an all economy aircraft makes an appearance at LBA, which to me signifies more bad news for PIA at LBA surely. If more regular all Y class flights operate, it could end up suppressing J demand and thus making the flight unviable should J class be available. I mean, why would you book a J class ticket if there is a chance that cabin will not feature on your flight?
 
AP-BEG was one of our most regular visitors too! It sounds as though it will be up in the air again before too long though.
 
Rumours going around the airport today that due to crew shortages, the captain bringing in today's flight will also be the operating captain back to Pakistan as there isn't one here to fly it back and it would be grounded otherwise.

I'm not sure how he rules work with regard to Pakistan working hours but various people from LBA were talking about this and seemed to think it was legal in Pakistan as long as he took a rest period during the inbound and outbound flight.
 
still a mega shift. do the inbound crew into LBA go over to Manchester for example and return back to Pakistan from there after rest or are they put up until saturday to return from Leeds?
 
PIA seem to have updated their website.

The A310 now seems to run through the winter (was still the B777 loaded until recently).

What is worse, Business class is no longer sold from LBA. Surely a worrying sign given the higher yielding front end has been removed, and now AMS/FRA seem to have been cut from September, both some of the last remaining A310 destinations in Europe.
 
from user001s post its running through the winter just with the usual A310 with no business class. its Amsterdam and Frankfurt that are dropped from september.
 
Seems Geo News in Pakistan are reporting that LBA flights will end in September too, however flights are still fully bookable at this time.

Even if flights do not get cut right now, surely LBA does not have long left?

From promising a B777, to now not only keep the A310 on the route, but to remove the business class cabin on flights too? This is bad because:

-You loose passengers to nearby Manchester who not only use the B777 with a business cabin, but also has Emirates, Air Blue, Qatar and Etihad who are becoming more and more popular

-Taking away the Business cabin also makes it much less likely to get the B777 at LBA. It means it could be argued there is 'no demand' as 0 pax used the J cabin (a convenient excuse rather than one with basis).

-Also, it seems with this all economy A310, seems they are being re-fitted for regional operations, not long haul, so, with no apparent sign of a B777 for LBA, it seems there is more chance the route gets cut (as AMS/FRA have just found out).

So, what next for LBA's only regular long haul link?

It seems Shaheen air have gone very quiet on launching any routes into Europe, amd Air Blue seem more than happy just operating into Manchester.

I just don't see who could come onto the route this time? ISB-LBA has been tried and tested through many formats, and whilst this time its more down to management incompetence, one has to wonder who will be brave enough to try the route in the face of middle eastern competition down the road and no less than 3 airlines coming and going at LBA (obviously this is if PIA do pull)
 
Just found out that PIA will continue flying into Leeds as the media in Pakistan reported the news wrong. Only Frankfurt and Amsterdam services been dropped in September..

But I would hazard a guess that the airport's managerment will know what's happening with PIA and be trying to work around the situation. I'm sure if PIA were to leave another airline will step in to fill the gap...
 
[offtopic][/offtopic]Although the demand is there for longhaul, unfortunately, the infrastructure isn't. Why operate from an airport where load restrictions apply and in winter it's hit hit or miss if you can even make an approach. Leeds has a longhaul airport 45 miles away where none of these restrictions apply and airlines are already operating successfully.

As Mode 1 stated, Manchester will always win on this front, so Leeds should concentrate at what it's good at.
 

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