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Pakistan's Shaheen plans used, new Boeing purchases

Pakistan's privately owned Shaheen Air plans to buy seven used and two new Boeing (BA.N) aircraft and start flights to India and Iran, its executive director said on Tuesday.

"We have almost completed the process of acquiring seven Boeing 737-200 aircraft from an airline in South Africa," Khalid Bashir Anjum told Reuters on the sidelines of an aviation conference in the United Arab Emirates. He did not give details.

"We will also be acquiring two new Boeing 737-900 ERs by end-2010. The new aircraft will enable Shaheen to start new routes to Mumbai and Mashhad in Iran," he said, adding that Shaheen would also increase flights to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Muscat.

The airline, which has a fleet of seven Boeing 737s, flies to six destinations in the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar and Kuwait.

Shaheen stopped flights to Leeds in Britain last year after fuel prices peaked, he said.

"But we are seriously thinking about resuming flights to the UK, to some secondary airport, and to Canada provided fuel prices remain stable and not too high" said Anjum, adding that the airline may lease a few Boeing 777 ERs for the flights.

The airline, which also operates on domestic routes in Pakistan, carried 1 million passengers in 2008, up 22 percent over 2007, he said. (Reporting by Stanley Carvalho; Editing by David Holmes)

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:rolleyes: ...you mean like 'wawkrk' suggested ^^^^ :reallyshocked:

I don't know the answer as to whether or not the Boeing 777 could operate to ISB direct from LBA but we weren't too sure about the A310 capabilities before they started the ISB operation using them. They could of course operate into DSA but they could also operate into other secondary airports. Birmingham and Manchester are probably classed as secondary airports to most airlines outside of the UK. Shaheen did say that they intended to return to LBA when they left. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't but they were so unorganised and unpredictable that anything is possible with them.
 
This announcement by them also seems disorganised to me. And what about them making out that they stopped flying to Leeds after fuel prices peaked? I seem to recall it was nothing to do with fuel prices and was because the Pakistani Government wouldn't let them keep the leased Turkish A310's and they couldn't get any more. So either they were telling porkies then, or they are now. Odd that they couldn't source used A310's but PIA don't seem to have a problem with doing so?

They did originally state they were going to DSA last time before switching the flight to LBA. If they did try to operate from either they obviusly have PIA to compete with now, so I don't think they would do ISB. They would be better doing Lahore. Personally, I would be surprised now to see them back.

If this is Pakistan's 2nd airline, operating ancient 737-200's for the most part I would hate to fly with their 3rd airline!!
 
White Heather said:
This announcement by them also seems disorganised to me. And what about them making out that they stopped flying to Leeds after fuel prices peaked? I seem to recall it was nothing to do with fuel prices and was because the Pakistani Government wouldn't let them keep the leased Turkish A310's and they couldn't get any more. So either they were telling porkies then, or they are now. Odd that they couldn't source used A310's but PIA don't seem to have a problem with doing so?

That is actually the truth. Fuel price was the trigger for the demise of the route. Shaheen were making circa 6,000 USD per sector loss on its LBA flights mainly due to over a doubling of fuel prices from when the service was put on sale and high (fixed) wet lease costs of the aircraft. Shaheen had a lease purchase agreement with Saga airlines for 2 A310's, but were unable to re-negotiate the sale price for such a purchase to an acceptable level after the 120 days wet lease period (the maximum duration a Pakistani registered airline can operate an aircraft on a foreign register) to potentially cover the costs of operating the route. There are very few available A310's left in the market, and lease costs (and per seat operating costs) are expensive. Air Algerie secured the Saga aircraft on a wet lease at a rate presumably more attractive to Saga. Obviously it made little sense to source (let alone try to find one on the market) alternative equipment for what to Shaheen was an unsustainable route whilst fuel was at over 140 USD per barrel.

PIA have had their A310's for donkeys years and own all but 6, so hardly a fair comparison.

I hope Shaheen stay as far away from LBA as possible. As far as them getting 777's, don't hold your breath.
 
So, Shaheen were being economical with the truth then at the time, as they never let on about any problem with the route being non viable due to fuel costs. None of their announcements at the time mentioned this. In fact, very little information was given by either Shaheen or LBA and there were a lot of queries about why they had dropped the route, even on the internet.

Right up until the end, Shaheen were talking the route up and saying they intended to increase frequency and add another route, so at the very least, if you are correct (which I don't doubt incidentally) they were saying one thing and planning another.

As for an unfair comparison, I don't think so. PIA have since acquired some more A310's which are to replace some of their older airframes. If they managed to source them then they must be around somewhere.

Finally, if the route was non viable to Shaheen, how was it viable for PIA to launch it at a time when fuel prices were even higher? Presumably PIA charge a more sensible (higher) fare, but still manage to carry healthy loads.
 
White Heather said:
So, Shaheen were being economical with the truth then at the time, as they never let on about any problem with the route being non viable due to fuel costs. None of their announcements at the time mentioned this. In fact, very little information was given by either Shaheen or LBA and there were a lot of queries about why they had dropped the route, even on the internet.

Shaheen were a victim of circumstance, escalating unhedged fuel prices triggering a chain of events that made the route unviable with the business plan they had ultimately allowing the aircraft purchase deal to fall through. some would argue they were unfortunate, for me it highlights the fact that their business plan was not flexible enough to react to changing market conditions. The fact that they based their business case on 218 pax each with 2 bags at 40kg and 3 tonne of freight on the LBA-ISB sector (off a short runway) at a price that undercut their competitors in the region by at least 10% must have come as a shock when the realisation came in that they had to weight restrict the aircraft (ie reduce sector revenue), perhaps indicating a management acumen restricted to short term, ill planned (local Pakistan time) thinking.

White Heather said:
Right up until the end, Shaheen were talking the route up and saying they intended to increase frequency and add another route, so at the very least, if you are correct (which I don't doubt incidentally) they were saying one thing and planning another.

To be fair, I'm sure developing the route was their intention, but faced with high fixed costs and astronomically increasing operating costs and the impediment of a Pakistani CAA restriction imposed only 2 months before the operation started, then I dare say the desire to keep the airline afloat and postpone their mid/long haul ambitions seemed like a sensible move. Had they started the route in early 2007 as originally planned, perhaps the circumstances may have been different. You also have to take into account that this was Shaheen's first attempt at a mid/long haul route therefore experience was not within the company - and it showed, combined with the traditional view that Pakistani companies are not the most forthright in their external communications will have undoubtedly created an element of suspicion on the part of our more familiar media culture/thinking.

White Heather said:
As for an unfair comparison, I don't think so. PIA have since acquired some more A310's which are to replace some of their older airframes. If they managed to source them then they must be around somewhere.

I am not aware of any inductions to the A310 fleet since 2004:

Reg----Type of Aircraft--Cn ---Ex-------Mfd -Delivery Date to PIA
AP-BDZ Airbus A310-308 585 F-WWCH 1991 Jun 25, 1991
AP-BEB Airbus A310-308 587 F-WWCT 1991 Jul 26, 1991
AP-BEC Airbus A310-308 590 F-WWCX 1991 Sep 02, 1991
AP-BEG Airbus A310-308 653 F-WWCZ 1992 Sep 23, 1992
AP-BGN Airbus A310-324ET 676 F-WQTG 1993 Dec 23, 2003
AP-BGO Airbus A310-324ET 678 F-WQTC 1993 Dec 27, 2003
AP-BGP Airbus A310-324ET 682 F-WQTF 1993 Jan 29, 2004
AP-BGQ Airbus A310-325ET 660 F-OGYT 1992 May 26, 2004
AP-BGR Airbus A310-325ET 687 F-OGYU 1993 Jul 12, 2004
AP-BGS Airbus A310-325ET 689 F-OGYV 1993 Jun 29, 2004
AP-BEQ Airbus A310-308 656 F-WWCB 1992 Dec 21, 1993
AP-BEU Airbus A310-308 691 F-WWCD 1994 May 11, 1994

The fact that PIA tendered in Nov-08 for a small number of newer vintage AB6/310 aircraft and as yet not sourced any may be testamount to the number of airframes available at a competitive price in the market.

White Heather said:
Finally, if the route was non viable to Shaheen, how was it viable for PIA to launch it at a time when fuel prices were even higher? Presumably PIA charge a more sensible (higher) fare, but still manage to carry healthy loads.

You cannot compare apples with oranges. The entire structure of the companies are different as are the reasons for operating the route.
 
Taking into account that PIA are now considering the Boeing 777 type on the ISB route from LBA, this does of course mean that Shaheen will also be able to operate the type into LBA should they decide to resume the service. Like most people on here, I have many reservations about the Boeing 777's operational capabilities from LBA but it would be nice to see the type here.

It will be interesting to see how things pan out over the coming months. We all know that LBA is on the borderline of offering long haul capabilities but the future is looking very much more in our favour with the Boeing 787 'dreamliner' and the Airbus A350 come onto the scene.
 
I will try to find the the take off performance chart that I have somewhere.
I remember the take off distance for the 777-200 and the A310-300 are almost the same.
 
Hi All

Well you not going to believe this from what I hear Pakistan based operator Shaheen Air have had meetings recently with Leeds/Bradford Airport Management regarding recommencing long-haul flight operations.

They are to acquire a Boeing 767-300 within the next 2 months or so and are looking to operate 2x weekly flights to Toronto from Pakistan via a UK airport.

From what I hear talks are on going, but I understand that they don't look to promising for Leeds at the moment due to aircraft weight restrictions and Cargo facilities problems.
 
wow!! IF the airport can pull this one off it will be great! Would they count the flight as two different sectors with passengers travelling also between LBA and Toronto??
 
I am lead to believe Doncaster, Birmingham and Manchester are the 3 airports in the running for flights.
 
DSA did announce that Shaheen were to operate from Islamabad to there several years back, but of course they never did, as they came to LBA instead! Purely from an LBA perspective, it would be good if the same thing happened again (sorry to all Donny folk, but you know how it is!!). However, given Shaheen's track record, I wouldn't get excited about them operating anything at all, and frankly I would be very worried if they opted to come to LBA as it could result in PIA quitting and then when Shaheen do their usual and disappear again, we could be left with nothing.

If the route was operating from somewhere other than Isalamad though, then it would be worth a gamble. Given that 767-300's have made it from LBA to Bridgetown on occasions (depending on weather and load), I would have thought that YYX is not impossible, but 'troublesome'. My money would be on MAN - again!
 
Just thought I'll let you know that Shaheen Air has taken delivery of it's first Long Haul Airbus A330-301 (ex VQ-BEU built 1994 c/n 55) from Leasing company ILFC.

I wonder if they may look at returning to the UK with flights to Leeds again?
 

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