Pakistan International Airlines

[michael]

Tony Hallwood's obviously not happy, he's just been on Look North stressing the routes increase in numbers over the last 12 months. depending on which TV/radio you listen to either 1 or 2 extra flights to MAN per week are planned

 

[The Pole]

Nice of them to use lba footage Not

 

[User0001]

Ive just watched the Look North report (the joys of Sky and being able to view any region's local news).

What strikes me is Tony Hallwood saying 'we have figures which show passenger growth'.

Believe it or not Mr Hallwood, but as the airline carrying those passengers, Im pretty sure PIA have seen that growth too.

However, he seems to have gleaned over the fact the argument is not about passenger loadings, but, the yield that the flight is creating, which, may not be enough to sustain the flight. How many times does it need to be said, high loads does not always mean high yields. If people are unwilling to pay the higher fare brackets, and instead bargain basement travel agent fares, then that route is not going to make money.

As I have said before, PIA is the one airline that is less concerned at making money as it is about prestige. If the money pit of PIA can not keep LBA going, then there aint' no other airline likely to do that either, so I really do wonder who this 'saviour of the LBA-ISB route' that Mr Hallwood is so confident of securing could be?

 

[Moo2009]

Shahean with the A330 maybe

 

[User0001]

Shahean with the A330 maybe

They seem happy ferrying people between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I notice they were in no rush to replace the LBA route/A310's last time they ran.

I wonder when the hint will drop that maybe, just maybe, the LBA-ISB route is unsustainable in its current form, until perhaps the B787 arrives in Pakistan, or, the runway is extended? How many airlines must try, and, fail in a relatively short space of time (3 attempts in about 10 years is some good going, Its taken Cathay 13 years to get the guts to try MAN just a second time for example) before people admit 'yeah, perhaps this route doesn't quite work'?

 

[Moo2009]

Did pia not jump straight in after Shaheen pulled out if I remember they went 3 x a week as well

 

[rmac]

Fair comment user001. Do you think then that Turkish Airlines or Pegasus would be a better alternative via Istanbul perhaps 4 weekly thus giving more options for onward travel and of course even Turkey itself?

 

[BigT2207]

Did pia not jump straight in after Shaheen pulled out if I remember they went 3 x a week as well

Shaheen Jumped in after Swe-fly proved there was a market for flights to Pakistan.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Good bye, and good ridance to bad rubbish. I don't care how good the route was performing it was a cowboy airline running into a tin shed on a hill. Turkish would provide a better connection and wider coverage of that region (such as iraq, more destinations within pakistan) then this poor outfit. Hope the door hits them on the way out and we hang out the flags.

 

[Aviador]

I agree with much of what's been said, which is why I keep sighting the runway limitations as the main problem LBA faces if is to ever maintain ANY sort of long haul presence. LBA can't rely on airlines going out and purchasing aircraft just to suit operations from Leeds Bradford Airport's short runway. As for the Look North programme, the only reason we've seen this story break on telly is because the news has leaked. I am sure the airport would much rather have seen the route disappear off the radar like so many other routes have in the past. I think TH put a brave face on the matter today, hence his comments so far as passenger numbers using the route.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I agree with much of what's been said, which is why I keep sighting the runway limitations as the main problem LBA faces if is to ever maintain ANY sort of long haul presence.........................................................................I think TH put a brave face on the matter today, hence his comments so far as passenger numbers using the route.

A similar discussion has been taking place about Bristol on a couple of aviation message boards in the past few days. It too is unable to fulfil its long haul potential because of runway limitations.

TH must feel a certain sense of frustration having been at BRS prior to LBA.

 

[User0001]

Good bye, and good ridance to bad rubbish. I don't care how good the route was performing it was a cowboy airline running into a tin shed on a hill

Funny how those sort of comments only appear when an airline pulls out. Nuff said.....

Fair comment user001. Do you think then that Turkish Airlines or Pegasus would be a better alternative via Istanbul perhaps 4 weekly thus giving more options for onward travel and of course even Turkey itself?

If I was Tony Hallwood, I would be focusing all my attention on getting the Pegasus link. They have already said they are looking at LBA with 2 other airports. Time to make an offer they cannot refuse.

Shaheen Jumped in after Swe-fly proved there was a market for flights to Pakistan

But, where are all these airlines if the market was so successful? Every single operator has blamed 'lack of suitable aircraft, but what is stopping them using 'suitable' aircraft? By all accounts the B777 was going to be just fine using LBA?

 

[muscleboy33]

Like ive said many times before its just 300metres of runway extension or touch down point moving back thats stopping lba, fact!

 

[White Heather]

Last year, PIA pulled out of Glasgow, that as far as I am aware, doesn't have the 'issues' that LBA has. Yet, we all point the finger at the runway and infrastructure as the reason for this route being terminated. The route carried 31,600 pax in the past 12 months, an average of around 150 pax per flight. There may be a yield problem as stated by User001, but having discussed this with someone who knows much more about this than any of us, I remain convinced that this is all about the lack of competition, coupled with the way past their best and inefficient A310's that need to go. Much as I hate the fact they are leaving LBA, for long haul flights, it makes more commercial sense to operate from MAN. And for someone who has supported LBA for many years, that is hard to say.

I do not accept though that this is a decision caused by the infrastructure at LBA. Anyone who thinks it is, perhaps they can explain why PIA axed Glasgow too, well before LBA? Given the fact Glasgow is nowhere near MAN, logically they should have axed LBA first and left GLA operating.

As for Shaheen, they dropped the route due to lack of aircraft when they had to send their A310's back to the leasing company. Nothing to do with the route failing or being uneconomical. PIA replaced them very quickly and have flown the route for a good few years now. If the route was so much of a loser, they would have gone long since and would never have even considered the 777. It is no co-incidence that they have pulled the route not long after Air Blue ended their MAN operations, leaving the entire market to them. They don't need to bother flying here now as anyone who wants a direct flight to Pakistan has little choice but to follow them to MAN.

 

[lbia]

Whilst I'm not a huge supporter of LBA's managent from an instrstructure point of view, White Heather is totally correct. For once I can firmly say that LBA managent have done their hardest to keep PIA and the infrastructure has nothing to do with it. It all comes down to economics and PIA is in a terrible state as I'm sure we all know.

There clearly is a LBA-Pakistan market, albeit just not commercially viable in the long term by PIA on A310 aircraft. We all know the 777 is just that little but too big, and with MAN over the hill LBA was bound to face the chop when things got tough for PIA. For now all we can do is be thankful that PIA have lasted this long, and if anything it might help bolster onward connections from LBA to Pakistan via LHR/AMS.

Does anyone really think that if LBA has a massive runway that PIA would still be here? If so, google profit and have a read. If they don't make any then it's not happening.

 

[lbaspotter]

Funny you should mention Qatar Airways. As it would seem that now Qatar are part of the "Oneworld Alliance" you are able to book flights from Leeds/Bradford to Doha.

Okay It's a one-stop service using the British Airways London Heathrow shuttle, surly it's an option to look at?'

 

[User0001]

This is my take on the situation;

It is a very difficult time for PIA and when you are struggling financially you have to look for 'the best fit situation'. The management at LBIA would love to keep PIA but all the amount of pleading they and the local community can offer will always lose to an airport that actually puts its money where its mouth is. Instead of pleading they build a long runway which is comfortably able to accomadate the more modern larger and more efficient jets, instead of pleading they build some aircraft parking spaces, instead of pleading they offer them a highly attractive deal.

At the end of the day the best way to attract airlines is to offer them an airport that is truely fit for purpose. It really is not rocket science.

 

[imagineif]

As I mentioned when I originally published the heads up that the route was about to be axed.. the A310's are going to be phased out very soon. They only have a handful airworthy now as it is. The writing was on the wall as soon as this call was made...

That leaves them with no suitable aircraft to operate into LBA and ACMI/Charter - outsourcing is too expensive.

Air Blue did well operating from MAN with the A321 with a fuel stop... that operation is viable if it is a low cost model - it could well work from LBA.

Until and IF any airline or body comes forward with an alternative - these will be the options for LBA pax wishing to reach ISB after May 14th...

BA - LHR then PIA - ISB
Prices from £900
Duration time 13 hours avg.

Or go to Manchester.

 

[White Heather]

I don't know what the PIA was doing tonight but it just performed the weirdest take off on 14 I have seen since the Virgin 747 around 1985. It took off and immediately banked sharp Left, passing directly over my house, which for those that know the area, is close to the playing fields at the top of Otley Old Road, Cookridge. It was as close to a 90 degree bank to port as you could do in a wide body airliner. LBA ATC will NOT be happy as this take off was about as far off the departure routing as its possible to get! Perhaps now they are leaving PIA are happy to disregard the required routes, which if so is naughty - but I certainly enjoyed seeing it climb overhead. Being a mile East of the flight path, it was a first! There was no obvious storm activity in the area to warrant such a flight path. Thanks PIA - enjoyed that!

 

[Aviador]

Did he wave the wings as he passed. Maybe he was waving goodbye?