Pakistan International Airlines

[Aviador]

Two lots of landing fees I suppose unless they have a specific deal with each airport to allow it at no extra cost. Plus I think it would also mean shortening the life of the airframe on aircraft that already have a limited remaining lifespan left in them.

 

[backtrack]

Two lots of landing fees I suppose unless they have a specific deal with each airport to allow it at no extra cost. Plus I think it would also mean shortening the life of the airframe on aircraft that already have a limited remaining lifespan left in them.

In addition to that, It would cost more in fuel, as it would mean 2 x Take Off which im sure you can all appreciate takes a hell of a lot more fuel than does in the cruise or descent when engines can be even at idle in some parts of the descent. You may not think its a lot, but it sure is, there is a huge difference in fuel consumption on Take Off and initial climb out. On top of that, there is taxi times, perhaps short, but again adding up the fuel bill.

 

[White Heather]

I think the problem would be that with the A310 only holding around 180, a split load would mean double landing fees and the above mentioned fuel consumption problems for only around 90 pax at each airport, so the figures might not stack up. Otherwise, it would be an interesting proposition as you suggest. Perhaps if it were the 777 with a bigger capacity and both GLA and LBA agreed to reduce landing fees, then both airports could benefit - GLA by keeping an ailing service and LBA by getting a new one.

 

[Aviador]

Latest provisional stats by the CAA indicate a +62% increase in the number of passengers using the LBA - ISB route compared with the same month the previous year.

A poster on the Fruit board has suggested that the average load factor will be around 75% after taking into account the extra Monday rotation.

The airline needs to fill about 74% of seats if they are to break-even so will PIA view this positively or negatively? If they decided to operate the route just twice weekly again the route would remain in profit whereas if they continue to operate three times weekly the service will continue to operate at near break even.

 

[White Heather]

Does anyone know how that compares with the same route by PIA out of MAN?

To be honest I would have expected that a 62% increase would equate to better than 75% loads as although there is now an additional flight, the passenger figures last year were said to be good already and had they not already been hitting or exceeding the break even point, they would surely not have added an extra flight in the first place? One extra flight per week can only add 50% more passengers if full so there has been a good increase in addition, and at a time when airlines are generally struggling to keep passengers. I would have thought that PIA would be delighted with this route given that it remains relatively new to them.

 

[Bigman]

Bad news!!! Looks as if PIA are scaling back to twice weekly. The Monday flight has disappeared, certainly from July onwards.

 

[eastcoaster]

Mondays have gone from start of summer timetable, end of March onwards.

 

[Runway 32]

Is this flight still operated by the A310 or has it been scaled down so that it is operated by a 777?

I have just been on the PIA website and just by putting in some random dates throughout April, May and June it appears that all outbound flights are unavailable - does this mean they are full? Surely not? However inbound flights to LBA are showing as available.

I thought the load factors were quite good out of LBA and PIA were very happy with the loads.

Slight change to the rumours that were going around nearly a year ago with the talk of the 777 replacing the A310.

 

[empire]

Flights continue to be operated by A310.
The last Monday flight from LBA is on the 22nd March. This Monday flight will then continue operate into Manchester with a Boeing 777

 

[backtrack]

At one point, not so long ago, it was rumoured PK were wanting to transfer their operations from MAN to LBA. I guess they havent seen that feasable, after all their long established at MAN and it has the runway to cater for the B777/B743 no matter what weights, length of flight or weather etc.

We can now only hope they see this move as a mistake, then re-instate the 3rd weekly ISB route or add some other destination to LBA, such as LHE or KHI.

 

[White Heather]

At the consultative committee meeting, the directors did say that they are still working closely with PIA to get the flights changed to the 777 and based on what was said, it sounded like it was just a matter of when, rather than if, this will happen. Certainly it would be nice to see an alternative PIA route from LBA though and bearing in mind the increase in passengers, this reduction seems rather strange unless it is driven by the need to reduce operations with the A310 and LBA not yet 'ready' to accommodate the 777.

I think that this is a question I will have to put forward to the MD at the next meeting!

 

[Aviador]

If you look at it this way, if PIA were to decide to upgrade the service to a Boeing 777 through the summer, the flight would now remain in profit even with an upgrade. However, If the airline was to transfer to Boeing 777 operating the current three times weekly schedule it wouldn't even break even.

 

[User0001]

thats based on the assumption that a certain payload equals a profit though, it would be interesting to see if there is a difference in yield ex MAN vs LBA. The fact that the Monday flight has switched to MAN as a 777 suggests demand is good enough from the north as a whole, but they'd rather fly the 777 to MAN. And would you blame them, if we weren't all LBA fans? It is a concern that they've added capacity from the north as a whole, but by switching to MAN. I hope they don't consider doing this again in the future as a strategy.

 

[Bigman]

Interesting CAA stats again for January.

LBA-ISB - 3527 - Up 30%
MAN-ISB - 13001 -Down 14%

LBA must be doing something right!!

 

[White Heather]

Bigman I assume those MAN stats include the flights to ISB that are not operated by PIA?

I think Aviador will be proven right on this. We maybe cannot sustain 3 777's a week from LBA but we can sustain 2 and this reduction may well pave the way for this upgrade. As I just posted, LBA management are confident this will happen in the not too distant future. PIA will surely be starting to reduce the scale of their operations with the A310 but I don't think LBA is quite ready to accommodate it yet. Does anyone know if the PIA fleet of A310's is being reduced or the number of flights being cut due to their age and non reliability?

 

[Aviador]

Don't know about the reliability of this but I heard today that "PIA are to use the Boeing 777 from March"

 

[Runway 32]

Still showing on the booking engine for PIA an A310. Lets hope that the rumour you heard is true. Where did you come across it if you don't mind me asking????

 

[backtrack]

Don't know about the reliability of this but I heard today that "PIA are to use the Boeing 777 from March"

How reliable do you honeslty think this source of information was Aviador?

 

[Aviador]

Reliable in a sense that the person who told me doesn't share our interest in aviation so he has no reason to boast or tell fibs. Fingers crossed but we've been here before if I'm honest, but there's no smoke without fire so sooner or later one of these rumours is bound to come true.

 

[Runway 32]

Its been said before that those A310's don't have that much more life in them and it has been mentioned that the 777 will replace the A310 on the LBA route, its just a case of when??