Leeds Bradford - General Thread

[SNOWMAN]

I see that Robin Hoods passenger figures are growing with just under 1.3 million per year.
It is beginning to look like a real competitor these days !
What do you people think ?
It is only 12 years since it became a civilian airport so coupled with its cargo operations it must be doing pretty well.

hi 300boy
2 nice freighters in doncaster yesterday
atlas air 747-400 n475mc
antonov 124-100 ur-82073
regards
sm1

 

[jason1-11]

I see that Robin Hoods passenger figures are growing with just under 1.3 million per year.
It is beginning to look like a real competitor these days !
What do you people think ?
It is only 12 years since it became a civilian airport so coupled with its cargo operations it must be doing pretty well.

The Airport is definitely attractive logistically especially with a catchment area that now covers South Yorkshire, Lincs and parts of North Notts, West and North Yorkshire. If you live in Wakefield, Pontefract, York and Scunthorpe, the commute it is either better of comparable with Leeds .

I don’t see much expansion from Wizz going forward as their Eastern European operation is already significant, but expect to see more A321’s on existing routes. They may choose to base aircraft at Donny which could possibly ply the “bucket and spade market” in the future. This would be a worrying development for Leeds as would pull passengers away and dilute its major business source. TUI – I think only longhaul is left for them now and wouldn’t be overly surprised to see Orlando and Cancun in the not too distant future.

Cargo may well struggle due to the close proximity of EMA and a very aggressive MAN, but there is definitely potential and they will continue to see some amazing “ad hoc” charters.

The real game changer for me was the Flybe decision to choose Doncaster over Leeds. I still can’t get my head around how the 3rd largest city in the UK with a huge untapped customer base was overlooked. It will be interesting to see if Flybe commit to expanding their operation from there and establish a long-term scheduled operation. They have the right aircraft and their services could appeal to passengers in the Leeds area that ordinarily use Manchester.

 

[a300boy]

jason 1-11 that would mean it took 50 years to get to the same point at Leeds but of course travel and life is different now.
So much more variety of aircraft down there even if a lot less traffic.

 

[White Heather]

LBA was growing (or not growing!) at a time when aviation was not as popular or vital as today so the two cannot be compared. LBA had, for years, a runway too short to allow many aircraft or routes and for political reasons, an extension was persistently refused, and then when we overcame that in 1984, we ended up with a night time flying ban which again prevented significant expansion. Leeds only really began to grow when that curfew was lifted. However - since DSA opened, I think you will find that passenger numbers at Leeds have increased by considerably more than 1.3m and passenger numbers have tripled in the past 20 years. The catchment areas of LBA and DSA are different, but do overlap. DSA will pull some LBA passengers down there and we are certainly getting passengers that reside in the DSA area. Time will tell if Flybe stay and grow at DSA when their wonder deal ends and they have to pay their way, but take them away and with the exception of Wizz and TUi, DSA has little to offer still. I seem to recall that when they first opened, Peel Holdings proclaimed that within 10 years they would be Yorkshire's No 1 airport. They are still carrying only slightly above a third of the LBA passengers and for me DSA remains too far from its largest population in Sheffield. Those living in that area can just as easily reach East Midlands, Manchester and if they live to the North of Sheffield, LBA.

 

[lbaspotter]

In hindsight LBA would have got to 1 million per year whole a lot quicker if Capital Airlines hadn't gone bust, If the ban on 24 hour operations had been lifted before 1995. Also the collapse of several leading airlines & UK tour operators after the 1990 gulf war didn't help matters as well..

Real question should be! How long did it take LBA to reach 1 million, then 2 million and now over 3 million passengers per year after night flight ban was lifted?

 

[White Heather]

The loss of Capital was a huge set back to LBA although of course it was their holding company that went under and not the airline itself. I am not sure people realise just how much that night flying ban harmed LBA not just in terms of airlines and passengers but also freight. How many know for example that due to that ban, LBA lost the chance to become the TNT Hub for the North? At the time they wanted to come to LBA but due to the night ban went to Liverpool instead. Had they come, LBA's freight situation could have been very different.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

If you wish to compare LBA and DSA surely you have to acknowledge that the deregulation of the european airline market in 1992 led to the growth of Ryanair and the formation of Easyjet, Jet2, etc., and the formation of LCC's which has had a major bearing on the european passenger market in the last 20 years.
DSA has rode on the back of this new market and its impossible therefore to judge LBA growth as before the advent of the LCC and as White Heather explains LBA has had a constant battle with regulators, whereas DSA has had a relatively smooth path since its opening.
Tour companies and national carriers basically ruled the skies when LBA commenced, we have seen a major power shift in the market and pricing structures and a movement to book from travel agencies to internet in homes, all this has played in to DSA hands, its unlikely they would have even commenced under the old regimes.

 

[Finger66]

DSA has only one thing going for it over LBA and that's the easier road access. That is no use to anyone if there are a) not the services on offer and b) not the densely populated catchment areas right on the doorstep. LBA has as its name suggests both Leeds and Bradford to immediately call upon before we even consider the Harrogates and Yorks. This is just the same for HUY and MME that lack the real dense populations in close proximity and the services on offer reflect this. As has been pointed out by more than one, will BE really be interested in DSA once their wonder deal expires. They needed to use surplus aircraft somewhere so in that sense it was a no-brainier to virtually ensure no losses under the deal. If LBA was that bad we wouldn't have the airlines and services we have today would we? I appreciate the spotters amongst you love the variety of aircraft types seen elsewhere inc DSA but I will tell you one thing, I would rather have LBA over DSA any day of the week for the choice of services available. Yes I occasionally fly from other airports but the vast majority of occasions is always LBA. I have yet to use DSA even though it is very accessible by road from where I live. The reason I haven't - not enough choice of flights. Long live LBA

 

[dmrodgers]

DSA has only one thing going for it over LBA and that's the easier road access. That is no use to anyone if there are a) not the services on offer and b) not the densely populated catchment areas right on the doorstep. LBA has as its name suggests both Leeds and Bradford to immediately call upon before we even consider the Harrogates and Yorks. This is just the same for HUY and MME that lack the real dense populations in close proximity and the services on offer reflect this. As has been pointed out by more than one, will BE really be interested in DSA once their wonder deal expires. They needed to use surplus aircraft somewhere so in that sense it was a no-brainier to virtually ensure no losses under the deal. If LBA was that bad we wouldn't have the airlines and services we have today would we? I appreciate the spotters amongst you love the variety of aircraft types seen elsewhere inc DSA but I will tell you one thing, I would rather have LBA over DSA any day of the week for the choice of services available. Yes I occasionally fly from other airports but the vast majority of occasions is always LBA. I have yet to use DSA even though it is very accessible by road from where I live. The reason I haven't - not enough choice of flights. Long live LBA

The other thing you have forgotten about Doncaster is the runway length and the fact it points in the right direction. We all now the issues about our runway so I wont go into it further. Fully agree with all your other points and would always chose LBA over DSA and MAN.

 

[Finger66]

Yes very good point a300boy re the runway. Ours isnt ideal as we know but still 3 x the annual pax of DSA. I am sure DSA will grow a little more, but equally so will LBA

 

[Finger66]

Sorry meant dmrodgers

 

[doofhead]

RAF A400M Visits Leeds Bradford Airport for the First Time


A Press Release from Leeds Bradford Airport: A RAF Airbus A400M Atlas today landed at Leeds Bradford Airport from RAF Brize Norton for the first time; as part of ongoing mutual training between the RAF and LBA.

The aircraft, which has four engines and is one of the largest and newest in the RAF’s fleet, arrived around lunchtime; after which RAF crew met with LBA operational staff to discuss ongoing mutual training opportunities. While on the ground there was an opportunity for staff at LBA to look around the aircraft. All usual flight operations at LBA remained on schedule.

James Baldwin, Operations Support Manager at LBA, said:

“Organising visits such as this with the RAF is beneficial for both LBA and RAF personnel, providing training for operational team members. In addition, it’s a fantastic opportunity for the LBA staff team and business partners based at the airport to see it on the ground.

“It was great to welcome the A400M Atlas to LBA for the first time today – it is such an impressive aircraft. I’d like to thank the team members at RAF Brize Norton for their time and we very much look forward to continually working together.”

Flight Lieutenant Beca Lee, originally from Harrogate, said:

“It’s really exciting to be able to be back in Yorkshire and to land at LBA; 50% of the crew today are from Yorkshire so it’s been fantastic to show airport staff around the aircraft. We look forward to coming back to LBA in the future for more valuable training exercises

 

[lbaspotter]

Leeds/Bradford Airport has just released its Masterplan

http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-the-airport/airport-masterplan

This includes both 'Route to 2030' Strategic Development Plan (SDP) final Masterplan document informs stakeholders and the local community of the airport’s likely growth and development to 2030. This document was published in March 2017, replacing LBA’s 2005 Masterplan and the Surface Access Strategy (SAS) which has also been updated to set out short, medium and long term plans for improving surface transport to the region.
The public consultation period ran from 3 March 2016 to 30 April 2016 and the airport arranged a series of locations for the documents to be viewed during that time.

Both documents can be downloaded in PDF format here

(SDP) = http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/media/2522/masterplan-2017-update.pdf
(SAS) = http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/media/2521/route-to-2030-strategic-development-plan-update.pdf

Full Press Released issued here: http://www.routesonline.com/airport...-bradford-airport-publishes-final-masterplan/

Leeds Bradford Airport publishes final Masterplan
Posted 7 April 2017 14:33

L-R Tony Hallwood (LBA), Cllr Ian Gillies (York City Council), Cllr Keith Wakefield (West Yorkshire Combined Authority), Julian Jackson (Bradford Metropolitan District Council), Tracey Brabin MP, Richard Corbett MEP, Naz Shah MP, Wallace Sampson (Harrogate Borough Council), John Parkin (CEO, LBA).

Leeds Bradford Airport’s Masterplan has been formally launched today, outlining the next 13 years of development at LBA.

‘Route to 2030,’ the Strategic Development Plan, was first released in draft form in March 2016, after which stakeholders were invited to submit feedback to shape the final Masterplan document.

The final document has been launched at the airport today during a regional event attended by a group of senior council leaders, councillors and MPs. The Masterplan outlines how the airport will grow and develop to carry a projected 7.1m passengers by 2030.

The Masterplan sets out ways in which LBA will: -

• Meet the demand for air travel
• Deliver a great service
• Improve surface transport links
• Expand employment opportunities

John Parkin, Chief Executive at Leeds Bradford Airport, said:

“This Masterplan paves the way for the future of LBA and importantly sets out ways in which we will seek to meet air travel demand in a sustainable way, while contributing significantly to the economy.

“Our vision is to be an outstanding airport, connecting Yorkshire with the world and this document is central to how we will deliver that. We will continue to work closely with the Local and Combined Authorities and Local Enterprise Partnership to ensure that our plans are of benefit to all.

“I would like to thank everyone, including many community groups, for their feedback during our consultation process. We very much look forward to the coming years, in which passengers will see a step change in many areas of our development – exciting times for LBA.”

Endorsements have been included in the Masterplan from Leeds City Council leader Cllr Judith Blake, Bradford Metropolitan District Council leader Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe, and Chair of Leeds City Region Enterprise Partnership Roger Marsh OBE.



Key points in the Masterplan include:

• Support for a new road link around the airport between the A658 and A65 with a spur to the airport;

• Support for an airport Parkway station on the Harrogate-Leeds railway line;

• Creation of an ‘Economic Hub,’ with three key components: Airport Village, Air Innovation Park and Air Freight Park – creating further job. Further economic analysis is taking place to establish demand for new industrial and office space to establish LBA as an employment hub as well as a transport hub;
• Expansion of aircraft stands, boarding gates and new taxiways to maintain efficiency of operational performance throughout LBA’s growth;
• Further development of the terminal building, including extra seating and enhanced retail/food and beverage options in the departure lounge;
• How LBA manages environmental matters. This includes new monitoring equipment and working closely with airline partners to reduce any potential impact.

The Masterplan ‘Route to 2030’ is available to read online at www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-the-airport/airport-masterplan

Leeds Bradford Airport currently offers flights to 75 direct destinations across 23 countries; alongside three hub services which connect to hundreds more. In the last 12 months, a record 3.6m passengers have flown through the airport.

Development has taken place at LBA over the winter in preparation for summer, including the installation of a glass frontage to the terminal building and bag drop facilities in check-in hall A. Further work to improve facilities ahead of the summer is being completed at present, including adding an extra security lane and preparing for a first floor extension which will add further seats to the departure lounge.

 

[GolfFox]

Having read some of the bits in which I am interested in the updated Master Plan, the categoric statement (still) is that there will be no runway extension BUT navigation enhancements will enable long haul traffic. I have been intrigued since this 'concept' was reported on the forum some time ago as to exactly what this means. It does not seem logic to assume that if the available concrete is not adequate now for reliable long haul operations, then a 'navigational' enhancement will make it so. Anyone know what it means and are they in a position to say?? Is this just 'creative' marketing wording to paper over the cracks or is there really something positive and achievable in the statement??

 

[rangieowner]

One would expect that modification of the ILS will allow the change in position of the thresholds therefore increasing the length of available runway, Just speculating..........

 

[quik123]

One would expect that modification of the ILS will allow the change in position of the thresholds therefore increasing the length of available runway, Just speculating..........

How would you expect that the ILS could be modified?

 

[Aviador]

Well if that is the case they're on with the lights now. Is there any indication to suggest the new LED lighting is possitioned differently to enable the ILS glidepath beams to be moved back?

 

[Finger66]

I hope this is true because what it should mean is less diversions away if we have a slightly longer landing track. May also encourage new airlines to think about LBA if potential increased operational reliability can be achieved. Still not sure about the prospect of long haul but would take it if it happened. Every little improvement LBA make is a good thing. Remember the word "improvement" is a positive and I think LBA are doing a good job on improvement within some fairly tight physical land boundaries. It's a shame the old AE factory cannot be bought. Perhaps there could be a dedicated domestic terminal there. Now that's food for thought!

 

[GolfFox]

If there is not to be any physical extension to the runway, then the only alternative is to configure the existing concrete to provide an increased usable distance. At the 32 landing end that could be achieved by moving the threshold back to where it originally was and adjusting the glideslope accordingly. There would also need to be changes to the approach and runway lighting. Moving the threshold back would require a dispensation which would seem unlikely to be granted or re-profiling the land at the end of the runway to provide the required 'protection' (in case of undershoot) for the threshold. Approaches would be a bit lower which in itself will cause negative reaction from some neighbours.
I would not class any of these options as 'navigational' enhancements so am still intrigued as to what is meant.

 

[blotbuc1]

Agree GF, not 'navigational' enhancements, yes intriguing!