Leeds Bradford: Airport Security, Immigration & Border Control

[Aviador]

Not suggesting that this is what is happening but it could be done if there is a defect with the equipment or if they are trying to maximise the usage of the body scanners. As with all airports it will be frequently sebjected to tests by the CAA to ensure the airport is meeting EU requirements. This is unlikely to change beyond Brexit as the UK level of security was always set high prior to the European harmonisation.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Have to say I was pulled out for full body scanning and we were going through with special assistance.
Whilst I had no issue with being chosen, was asked to raise my arms above my shoulder when I had already advised impossible to do. When he requested I raise my arms, I told him they were already at maximum height and it was extremely painfull for me. He then asked I move then sideways at this height, again impossible to do.
I was in so much distress I just walked out and luckly some one gave up a chair for me.
It just seemed that if the body scanner free they would throw some one in, whilst I sat recovering I watched folk going through the scanner and it was obvious the movement they require of folk are not possible for a good number of people, on lady needed her inhaler as she exerted herself too much..
I know from my rehabilitation programme many folk cannot move their hands to the side or above their head.
I accept I was basically invited to use the scanner, but thought they would be more sensitive when I had pointed out my restricted arm movement, I think I was not believed, but as a guy in their 70's and a frequent flyer, did I look a risk?

 

[Aviador]

Would that not be discrimination though, to treat you differently to everyone else on the basis or your age? We don't live in a Apartheid where we have age, racial or religious segregation. Everyone has to be treated the same however silly it might sometimes seem. That is something we in this country should be proud of.

Not sure about your problem to raise your arms. From what I understand, if you fail a body scan test for whatever reason you would then be subject to a more thorough phisical search. This kind of searching is more intrusive but the security officer would be required to be more understanding of your condition but you would still be required to undergo a search that meets the CAA requirements. ie under the arms.

 

[Finger66]

Have to say I was pulled out for full body scanning and we were going through with special assistance.
Whilst I had no issue with being chosen, was asked to raise my arms above my shoulder when I had already advised impossible to do. When he requested I raise my arms, I told him they were already at maximum height and it was extremely painfull for me. He then asked I move then sideways at this height, again impossible to do.
I was in so much distress I just walked out and luckly some one gave up a chair for me.
It just seemed that if the body scanner free they would throw some one in, whilst I sat recovering I watched folk going through the scanner and it was obvious the movement they require of folk are not possible for a good number of people, on lady needed her inhaler as she exerted herself too much..
I know from my rehabilitation programme many folk cannot move their hands to the side or above their head.
I accept I was basically invited to use the scanner, but thought they would be more sensitive when I had pointed out my restricted arm movement, I think I was not believed, but as a guy in their 70's and a frequent flyer, did I look a risk?

Let me throw a scenario into the equation here. How would you feel if a hijacker or similar got on to a flight you were on because they managed to get through security with something they shouldn't because of something they claimed they couldn't do when going through security? I am not saying for one minute that Tarnspotter isn't a very legitimate case but agree whole heartedly with Aviador that we all have to be treated equally however annoying, frustrating and probably embarrassing the situation may be for the individual concerned. Safety of all passengers has to be paramount

 

[Finger66]

And to add if it wasn't for the few mindless idiots that are hell bent on ruining all our lives then this whole airport security rigmarole wouldn't be necessary. I find it all as frustrating as the rest of us these days but accept it for the safety I know it adds

 

[KARFA]

Let me throw a scenario into the equation here. How would you feel if a hijacker or similar got on to a flight you were on because they managed to get through security with something they shouldn't because of something they claimed they couldn't do when going through security? I am not saying for one minute that Tarnspotter isn't a very legitimate case but agree whole heartedly with Aviador that we all have to be treated equally however annoying, frustrating and probably embarrassing the situation may be for the individual concerned. Safety of all passengers has to be paramount

There are protocols for dealing with people who can't raise their arms. No reason they can't be fully screened without distressing people who can't raise their arms.

And to add if it wasn't for the few mindless idiots that are hell bent on ruining all our lives then this whole airport security rigmarole wouldn't be necessary. I find it all as frustrating as the rest of us these days but accept it for the safety I know it adds

Has someone said they don't accept it?

 

[Finger66]

Nowt like being shot down in flames at the first given opportunity! Whilst not specifically quoted in this thread you can go through any airport security, not just LBA, and there are plenty of people that don't accept all the checks. And my point being that 99% of us are all decent human beings with nothing to hide etc. but as in all walks of life a minority spoil things for the majority. In this case the minority being those hell bent on blowing innocent civilians up whenever possible

 

[KARFA]

Nowt like being shot down in flames at the first given opportunity! Whilst not specifically quoted in this thread you can go through any airport security, not just LBA, and there are plenty of people that don't accept all the checks. And my point being that 99% of us are all decent human beings with nothing to hide etc. but as in all walks of life a minority spoil things for the majority. In this case the minority being those hell bent on blowing innocent civilians up whenever possible

Lol, shot down in flames 😉

 

[Aviador]

There are protocols for dealing with people who can't raise their arms. No reason they can't be fully screened without distressing people who can't raise their arms.

I spent 15 years doing the job, I would like some clarification as to what you think the protocols are for people who can't lift their arms?

It really is a case of show compassion by compromising and you risk being fired for not doing your job if you miss something.

 

[Peter Barber]

I spent 15 years doing the job, I would like some clarification as to what you think the protocols are for people who can't lift their arms?

It really is a case of show compassion by compromising and you risk being fired for not doing your job if you miss something.

 

[KARFA]

I spent 15 years doing the job, I would like some clarification as to what you think the protocols are for people who can't lift their arms?

It really is a case of show compassion by compromising and you risk being fired for not doing your job if you miss something.

Compassion and compromise is not mutually exclusive though. It is entirely possible to show the former without incurring the latter. As you noted yourself, there are ways to deal with screening someone who can't raise their arms sufficiently to use the millimeter scanner.

 

[Aviador]

Compassion and compromise is not mutually exclusive though. It is entirely possible to show the former without incurring the latter. As you noted yourself, there are ways to deal with screening someone who can't raise their arms sufficiently to use the millimeter scanner.

Indeed, but if a passenger is rejected by the body scanner they are subject to a physical search. Under the arms are still required to be search so it can be embarrassing for both parties when a passenger is unable to lift their arms.

 

[quik123]

Not suggesting that this is what is happening but it could be done if there is a defect with the equipment or if they are trying to maximise the usage of the body scanners. As with all airports it will be frequently sebjected to tests by the CAA to ensure the airport is meeting EU requirements. This is unlikely to change beyond Brexit as the UK level of security was always set high prior to the European harmonisation.

Or, it could be that the 'bleep' is turned off and the operators are using the visual indicators instead.
It is distressing though to hear how those who are less able have been treat. I hope they reported the incidents to the CAA.

 

[White Heather]

Some time last year, a Look North reporter, who is in a wheelchair, went through LBA and then did a report that hit not only the local news but also the national, basically stating that he hadn't been subjected to the required checks and it was therefore far too easy for anyone with ulterior motives to get on the plane without the required checks being fully carried out. LBA were criticised at the time and not really given much opportunity to defend or explain themselves. What they are now doing therefore is ensuring that nobody, whether they have any disabilities or not, are treated any differently and if selected are scanned thoroughly. To be fair, we don't know what information they have been given - it is possible they have been warned that terrorists may try to access aircraft by posing as being disabled in some way and by hiding whatever they intend to use in or around their wheelchair, or themselves. As long as all passengers are treated the same and with absolute respect, then surely there is no issue. Better safe than sorry.
When I travelled earlier this year, I walked straight through the scanner without a problem. My friend who was right behind me and who works for the MOD, was sent through the 2nd scanner and searched. They found nothing and it appeared to be random, or every so many passengers that were searched and scanned. She commented at the time that she felt assured that they were doing this and had no issue with it.

 

[lbaspotter]

I've been through the body scanner twice now.
First time it happened to me was when I went on the local KLM DC3 flight (won airport competition). Then went through last October whilst on a cheap £2 Ryanair day trip to Dublin. Got through the first x-ray machine no problem both times, but have then been asked/selected to go through the body scanner afterwards.
I have no problems having to comply to do this, it actully makes me feel more secure that airport security are doing there job properly, especially after the now famous BBC report which as White Heather says was covered nationally.

 

[Finger66]

I whole heartedly agree and rest my case. That said there are clearly legitimate occasions where common sense needs to prevail. The problem is that those that seek to cause harm will do anything they can and thus we all have and need to be searched accordingly.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Aviador: I have no issue with being chosen, I thought I made this point very clear, obviously I failed.
I accept that we all should be prepared for a full search, but thats not how it works especially at LBA.
My mother was in a wheel chair, so was my M I L and now my partner so I have vast experience for over 50 years taking a wheel chair through.
Since 9/11 I have never had a wheel chair searched, my partner never removes her jewellery nowadays, because never asked too, she has for medical reasons, bottles containing over 100ml of liquid and a tablet in her cabin bag, always declares, yet they are never even removed from the bag, then she is just wheeled through the arch. Its the same for all other wheel chair users that I have seen.
I have to accept this situation of fast throughput through security caused by limited SA staff, and limited equipemnt at LBA (now has been improved in the last 18 months), but the number using SA seems to have shot up, meaning their concern is to get you to gate 5 disabled zone asap, security checks just ignored.
Yet at overseas airports totally different, usually a medical official is called to security to check out the liquids, she always has to remove jewellery and she has been lifted from the wheel chair on many cases for a full check. I one in 5 journays a full check of all our medical documents will take place, to verify the drugs etc were taking through.
We both failed a drugs test at Malaga this Easter caused by the drugs we take, interestlingly their are no drug testing equipment at the seperate disabled security that exists at Malaga, this day they sent us all through the normal security lanes, we like many other failed the drugs test, no issues once we presented our medical notes, yet in the u.k. never been drug tested.
Since 2001 we have probably been through all the main u.k. airports, all have just waved wheel chairs through, so there does seem to have decided that wheel chair users not a high risk, why cant they operate the full body scanners on the same principles.

 

[Aviador]

I have no issue with being chosen, I thought I made this point very clear, obviously I failed.

Not at all Tarn Spotter. I respect you and you are entitled an opinion. You were very clear. You had an issue raising your arms in the body scanner as you find this difficult to do.

It is a requirement to raise your arms when using a body scanner. You should make security aware that you have difficulty raising your arms before you use the body scanner.

Unless things have changed recently it is my understanding that you are still entitled to bypass the body scanner but you will then be subject to a private search.

During a private search you maybe requested to remove items of clothing if the clothing inhibits satisfactory screening. Items removed during a private search maybe subject to a further X-Ray examination.

Since 9/11 I have never had a wheel chair searched

I am sorry but this simply can't be true unless you regard a search of a wheelchair as disassembled and an x-ray.

my partner never removes her jewellery nowadays, because never asked too

She is perfectly alright to leave her jewellery on and security only ever ask people to remove jewellery as a process of elimination.

she has for medical reasons, bottles containing over 100ml of liquid and a tablet in her cabin bag, always declares but yet they are never even removed from the bag

The scanners are fitted with software to flag items for further testing if deemed necessary. You are still required to present your liquids to the bag loaders as that is a legal requirement so you need to be declaring your liquids by removing them from your belongings.

then she is just wheeled through the arch

She is never just wheeled through a WTMD as a wheelchair wont fit through them.

With all due respect Tarn Spotter, I simply can't divulge any further information regarding the processes that security go though to screen wheel chairs. It would simply be inappropriate on a public forum. They have a methodology to follow and you need to just accept that.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Aviador: All the wheel chair information was given to me by my OH so I blame her if not correct. However, she is adamant that she has never been searched or asked to raise from the chair at LBA over the last 10 years, when this happens as a very normal situation in overseas airports

It is a requirement to raise your arms when using a body scanner. You should make security aware that you have difficulty raising your arms before you use the body scanner.
I think I was asked to use the scanner because I could not raise my arms for the guy who wanted to pat me down as I went through the arch and my shoes I think caused the machine to bleep.
When I entered the scanner I told the guy I was unable to raise, my arms, he chose to ignore me.

 

[Aviador]

Aviador: All the wheel chair information was given to me by my OH so I blame her if not correct. However, she is adamant that she has never been searched or asked to raise from the chair at LBA over the last 10 years, when this happens as a very normal situation in overseas airports

As I said previously, I can't discuss the wheelchair searching procedure so I can't elaborate any further.

Had something occurred once then I would probably take your word for it, but you say checks haven't been carried out since the twin towers went down. I can personally vouch for searching hundreds in fact almost certainly thousands of wheelchairs since 9/11 so I know that is absolutely untrue.

Nobody goes through without being screened. Staff can pass through security channels several times throughout their shift and they have to be screened every single time even if they only pop out to hand paperwork to somebody. So believe me, nobody in a wheelchair goes through without being screened.