Route Development & Rumours

[BHXsupporter]

Cabin baggage, Wardair 747s were a regular highlight for my spotting in Newcastle in the early 80s.

 

[thunderchild]

Looks like Indigo have shelved plans for Europe for the time being;

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/74700-indias-indigo-halts-plans-for-europe-ops

 

[IanFarquharson]

BHX- New York

View attachment 12052

 

[Silvercity]

Never known Wardair to provide 707/747 into any UK airport . They ran 747s/ DC-10s to YYZ . They flew a DC-10 into Leeds once which was a service via Birmingham . They also went into Exeter .

Wardair went to Liverpool too via Newcastle using a DC10 to Toronto. I remember my old neighbour telling me she jumped on the local bus from Prescot to Liverpool Airport, very handy for her. She said the in-flight service was very good.

 

[Silvercity]

Yep Wardair definitely DC10,747 and A310. CP Air DC8 and now diddly.

I used to love the CP Air livery , looked great on all their aircraft.

 

[Silvercity]

I've just seen a picture of a Wardair DC10 at BHX in 1981, so our Toronto link had been going for a very long time, maybe even since the 1970's....

Lots of operators in that time, as mentioned Air Canada, Wardair, Worldways, CP Air, Canada 3000, Nationair, Zoom, Royal Airlines, Air Transat being the Canadian Airlines, and of course Air India, PIA, Caledonian, MyTravel, Thomas Cook as well ….

have I missed any?

When I worked in travel I remember booking c!ients on British Midland from Gatwick to Toronto. B707s.

 

[Ianbutty]

BXH - YYZ Pax

View attachment 12051

Not good figures from 2009. I assume that was due to a frequency reduction. With c13k a year as a track record does not bode well for a return anytime soon.

 

[Ianbutty]

BHX- New York

View attachment 12052

At 136 and 147k in the last two years before we lost the route it is gob smacking that noone will fly the route. It is a good number to provide someone like westjet with plenty of confidence.

 

[Deleted member 8862]

Over the years BHX used to see a regular Wardair 747, also Air Canada provided at least one in lieu of a L1011.

There was also a CP Air example which positioned from Amsterdam covering for an over booked stretched DC-8.

 

[nwoody2001]

Not good figures from 2009. I assume that was due to a frequency reduction. With c13k a year as a track record does not bode well for a return anytime soon.

You’re kidding are’t you!!! 13,000 pax for a SINGLE weekly flight that lasted a few months is freaking stunning!

 

[rollo]

At 136 and 147k in the last two years before we lost the route it is gob smacking that noone will fly the route. It is a good number to provide someone like westjet with plenty of confidence.

Those figures will be United and American combined but after American pulled out you would think United could turn a decent profit on those passenger numbers but probably down to corporate policy to withdraw from the regions (MAN excepted) and yield. BHX always seems to struggle on business class.

So LCC is probably the way forward.

 

[nwoody2001]

It genuinely shocks me reading about the loss of AA, UA and TS and the arrival of Primera... and then suggest that the loss of AA, UA and TS was as a consequence of the arrival of Primera...

Yet next to no-one realises the arrival of Primera was the consequence of the loss of AA, UA and TS!

Primera were naive and unprepared opportunists. They were eager to get good deals to start TATL routes ...so they went to the Uk airports that struggle with such routes! Want a route to NYC? Don’t worry, we’ll provide you one. I’m sure we can find the aircraft ....

Can we end this idea that big beast like AA, UA and to a lesser extent TS went running in fear of Primera, it’s just not true!

 

[mullion]

Ironic pax figures 2nd highest ever and it gets chopped

 

[mullion]

Primera were the cause because they came in promising all sorts of things which caused the others where the yield
was marginal to back off before they thought they would lose a shed full

 

[JENNYJET]

I am sure that if capacity is tight, so shall be the loads.

 

[nwoody2001]

Primera were the cause because they came in promising all sorts of things which caused the others where the yield
was marginal to back off before they thought they would lose a shed full

Utter rubbish!

Have you got any evidence to back up these claims?

If this was indeed the case, Primera would have launched/put on sale their routes before the other airlines pulled out so they were in prime position to mop up the disappointed pax. They didn’t! Primera on EVERY route launched routes AFTER the competition pulled out. They simply wanted to take advantage!

The reality is AA, UA and TS saw other more efficient routes on which to operate their aging fleets, in UA/AA case, nearly all the 752s they have switched to domestic routes and their wide bodies were happily utilised!

Blame Primera or the airport all you like, it’s pure economics that led to this inevitable situation!

 

[mullion]

The airlines would have seen their plans months before we did so no it isn`t rubbish

 

[nwoody2001]

Really?! Last time I checked, these were highly conmercially sensitive discussions between airlines and airports. I didn’t realise that airlines tell their competitors their plans in advance of launch ...news to me!

And how on earth do UA,TS etc know what impact a new route is going to have on their route, not only before the route starts but before the route is even ANNOUNCED and put on sale!?!

In fact, can you tell me a single situation, ever, or anywhere where a single airline a has pulled out of an airport/route because a competitor MAY launch? I can’t think of a single one, yet you seem to think not 1, 2 but 3 airlines did in this case? Yes they may launch and have a price war until other airlines back out (Madrid a casing example) but you genuinely believe THREE airlines on THREE separate routers ALL pulled out because of competition before a route was even announced!?!?

I repeat, utter rubbish!

The routes were pulled because yields weren’t good enough and better yields could’ve found elsewhere. Simple as... Primera just tried to take advantage of the situation, it failed!

 

[IanFarquharson]

I agree with nwoody
American legacy carriers can make better money elsewhere than at UK regionals and the way forward is LCC.
I do believe even Manchester will loose the US mainline carriers soon as TCX and VIR expand.


Pity about Primera as I believe they would have been great at BHX if they had been more organised !
I don’t see any connection between the loss of AA UA or TS due to Primera, but Icelanair were not happy with the attention BHX were giving Primera.

 

[LichfieldBlue]

Sat at 36000 ft over North Atlantic on BA2167 in Club, lucky boy I know but Club is full whereas World Traveller is around half full, Business is where legacy airlines make their money so I as BHX doesn’t seem to have a large Business Class take up across the Atlantic a low cost carrier would seem the best bet, maybe Jet Blue with its Mint offerings? Technology don’t you just love it?