TUI Airways

[Aviador]

I read somewhere, that LHR had heated runways. I don't know if this is what was in use at LBA, but it was prohibitively expensive to use.

No actual snow clearing vehicles were used but wow yes that would be good.

 

[White Heather]

No actual snow clearing vehicles were used but wow yes that would be good.

The problem now is that at busy periods, there isnt time for equipment to go on the runway to attempt to get rid of water, by whatever means. There's a lot of runway to deal with, the rain just undoes what's been done again, and, unlike the 80s, the gaps between aircraft movements is very short at peak periods. They'd never get it done, even if there was a practical way to do it.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Its certainly a very bizarre incident thats occured, alot simply does not add up, no way would that 737 aquaplane over 500metres on a diagonal straight line to the left, and if the pilots were trying to avoid an overrun its a flipping early point to start veering to the left when your only passed the half way point!
It dont add up.

 

[Finger66]

We really do need to stop speculating and wait for the official report. What has happened has happened and we can’t change that

 

[ChrisBBB]

We really do need to stop speculating and wait for the official report. What has happened has happened and we can’t change that

You’re right, but it is a forum where people discuss, debate, speculate. It’s human nature to do so.
Not dissimilar to a football fans forum where people have different opinions, share rumour and speculation.
That said - there’s a fine line between that and potentially damaging comments where it involves business and individual reputation

 

[White Heather]

You’re right, but it is a forum where people discuss, debate, speculate. It’s human nature to do so.
Not dissimilar to a football fans forum where people have different opinions, share rumour and speculation.
That said - there’s a fine line between that and potentially damaging comments where it involves business and individual reputation

I agree, but, the discussions are revolving around an event which the press and media have already reported as an aircraft skidding off the runway despite the fact that we don't actually know that is what happened. If it's in the papers and on the TV and internet, then it's inevitable it will be discussed here. Most of the discussion is questioning the accuracy of that reporting and discussing whether the weather and runway was the cause, which are fair questions.

As you say though, we have to be careful not to make statements or claims that could be damaging especially as whatever is said at this point, cannot be substantiated. The only certainty is that it was raining!

 

[Finger66]

Yes a fair comment @ChrisBBB but I think we all know how this will go - once one starts everyone will start - and that is where the damage could be worst. It's over to the experts for me

 

[ls27]

Under runway heating may or may nor be a good thing. When I worked for the highways in Calderdale, the viaduct over the valley (A58)
had heating cables. The problem was that they cause transverse rutting. The snow between the heating cables didn't thaw , but over the cables it did, Causing very bumpy rides.

 

[Len Fish]

Like all aviation incidents the cause will be down to a series of factors all conspiring to and culminating in the accident. Also let’s remember that the AAIB investigation is not to apportion blame as such but is to try and ensure that the cause is identified and can be eliminated to make flying that much safer.

 

[Aviador]

The way I view this is although we should be able to express our opinions openly, we need to be mindful what we say isn't slanderous in anyway towards the airport, TUI or their employees. So in this instance we can't say a particular action or procedure carried out by LBA, TUI or their crew caused or contributed towards the accident.


The practicality of this means you can say something like this:

It is my belief xxx may have contributed towards the incident because of xxx

but you can't say anything like this:

xxx who works for xxx did or didn't do this and that's why it happened.

 

[Finger66]

And all the more reason why I for one won’t be commenting - it’s a very fine line that can be too easily crossed. Once we have the experts findings then that may be a different matter

 

[Aviador]

Its certainly a very bizarre incident thats occured, alot simply does not add up, no way would that 737 aquaplane over 500metres on a diagonal straight line to the left, and if the pilots were trying to avoid an overrun its a flipping early point to start veering to the left when your only passed the half way point!
It dont add up.

That information you were referring to is from the data presented on FR24 but we all know anomalies can cause display errors. Only a few weeks ago I watched a Balkan flight landing on runway 14 and FR24 showed the aircraft landing on the airport industrial estate which clearly wasn't that case thankfully. The aircraft eventually stopped somewhere in Horsforth proving the point that FR24 must only be used as a guide.

Only today I have just watched a Jet2 departure on FR24 and the data presented showed the aircraft veering to the left side of the runway. It is highly unlikely this was the case and it is more likely the aircraft was on the centreline and on its runway departure track. If the aircraft did veer to the left side of the runway it would surely trigger a report being filed. It is incredibly unlikely though and we must take FR24 anomalies with a pinch of salt and you can be sure they will tell you that too in their T&C bumph.

 

[LBA4EVER]

That information you were referring to is from the data presented on FR24 but we all know anomalies can cause display errors. Only a few weeks ago I watched a Balkan flight landing on runway 14 and FR24 showed the aircraft landing on the airport industrial estate which clearly wasn't that case thankfully. The aircraft eventually stopped somewhere in Horsforth proving the point that FR24 must only be used as a guide.

Only today I have just watched a Jet2 departure on FR24 and the data presented showed the aircraft veering to the left side of the runway. It is highly unlikely this was the case and it is more likely the aircraft was on the centreline and on its runway departure track. If the aircraft did veer to the left side of the runway it would surely trigger a report being filed. It is incredibly unlikely though and we must take FR24 anomalies with a pinch of salt and you can be sure they will tell you that too in their T&C bumph.

For the aircraft to leave the runway where it did is very unusual esp as there is still around 500metres or just over a quarter of a mile of runway left! Will be an interesting AAIB report

 

[Aviador]

For the aircraft to leave the runway where it did is very unusual esp as there is still around 500metres or just over a quarter of a mile of runway left! Will be an interesting AAIB report

In all honest I don't think it is that unusual. Runway excursions are actually quite common. Just a quick visit to the Aviation Herald highlights this.

Thai A333 at Bangkok on Sep 8th 2013, runway excursion on landing
Arabia Maroc A320 at Tangier on Oct 22nd 2023, runway excursion on landing
TUI B738 at Leeds on Oct 20th 2023, runway excursion on landing
CAA AT72 at Bunia on Oct 11th 2023, runway excursion on landing

 

[Finger66]

And absolutely no commonality in locations, airlines or aircraft type. Once again everything pure speculation that is now best left to the AAIB. At least that's my view anyway

 

[airforced]

FR when asked some time ago about them showing an aircraft landing nowhere near the runway answered by saying that the track shown on FR comes from the aircraft itself as the information comes from the ADS transmitter onboard and is not FR data explaining that the age of the onboard equipment, (ie the older the equipment is) the more likely it is to be inaccurate. I read that and accepted it as being a reasonable explanation. Were they telling porkies?

 

[LBA4EVER]

One such incident here at bhx during 2020

 

[White Heather]

Looks like an ATP? Can't be many of those around . That was acquired violently executed excursion although it seemed to find its way back on to the runway.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Those west atlantic ATPs are always flying around at night been a freight operator, we get one or two of their 737s passing over LBA on an eve heading south to EMA.
Always been a fan of the ATP, one of my favourite props!

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Yes, it was a West Atlantic BAe ATP, 'landing' R33 at BHX. Personally, I prefer the HS748 and the Viscount (which I've flown on) over the ATP..