Archive Route Development & Rumours

[Aviador]

Do US Pre Border clearance staff carry firearms? That might be what @mullion was referred to?

@domino85 is correct. No fire arms would be permitted by any foreign personal if that is what would be required.

@gulftraveller Is it really much of an investment? What exactly is involved? Surely it's just a person sat at a desk with a laptop with access to a database which is not exactly a major infrastructure undertaking?

 

[laviation]

EDI have been gunning for it although imho it’s a bit of a vanity project. Vast majority of EDI-USA pax is US domiciled apart from MCO (as GulfTraveller said)

USPC would probably be the catalyst for the US carriers to come back, and, dare I say it, a BA base/greatly expanded EIUK

That said though JetBlue is looking nicely likely as well as a couple of good routes by 2025 .
United not happening 2024 as we speak. 2025 a possibility there
Delta will return as soon as EI or B6 start BOS so 2025 most likely
American waiting on XLR deliveries

USPC is not really a worthwhile investment according to MAG, apparently.

 

[gulftraveller]

@domino85 is correct. No fire arms would be permitted by any foreign personal if that is what would be required.

@gulftraveller Is it really much of an investment? What exactly is involved? Surely it's just a person sat at a desk with a laptop with access to a database which is not exactly a major infrastructure undertaking?

It is an important question. My understanding is that as well as the cost of infrastructure (a segregated area of the airport), there is a cost levied per passenger. Whether that goes to the airport or to Homeland Security I do not know. But the bill for the facility is certainly not (fully) footed by USG.

As I said, there must be a reason why MAN and LGW have blown hot and cold but money must come into it.

 

[Aviador]

It is an important question. My understanding is that as well as the cost of infrastructure (a segregated area of the airport), there is a cost levied per passenger. Whether that goes to the airport or to Homeland Security I do not know. But the bill for the facility is certainly not (fully) footed by USG.

As I said, there must be a reason why MAN and LGW have blown hot and cold but money must come into it.

That's a fair point. Who has most to gain by having pre-clearance, I would expect the airport has most to gain as it's a huge selling point for an airport which can offer such a service. On the other hand the airlines have a lot to gain too if for example an airline from a neighbouring airport in the UK doesn't offer such facility it's not going to be as attractive to passengers using their services.


According to Wikipedia
The cost of CBP personnel who are deployed abroad to staff pre-clearance facilities is typically shared between CBP and the host airport 1.

 

[domino85]

Just seen an article on Twitter (X) about Routes World 23 in Instabul and noticed that MAN isn't on the attendees list. I'm just curious if anyone would know why they haven't gone, as most other UK airports have attended. It's odd that they haven't as it seems like a missed opportunity for new routes, potential new carriers and growth for the airport. Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Land23R]

Just seen an article on Twitter (X) about Routes World 23 in Instabul and noticed that MAN isn't on the attendees list. I'm just curious if anyone would know why they haven't gone, as most other UK airports have attended. It's odd that they haven't as it seems like a missed opportunity for new routes, potential new carriers and growth for the airport. Does anyone have any thoughts?

That's strange. Only STN & LTN shown, but I understand the Route Development team from MAN were attending. Perhaps only one of the MAG group were registered even though MAN will be there. I'd expect BHX to be there as well.

 

[domino85]

That's strange. Only STN & LTN shown, but I understand the Route Development team from MAN were attending. Perhaps only one of the MAG group were registered even though MAN will be there. I'd expect BHX to be there as well.

I agree. Have had a look at the European 23 in Poland and MAN we're there along with EMA but listed separately rather than under one umbrella so to speak. It seems odd for them to miss this. Yeah BHX are also in attendance and have attended both.

 

[Land23R]

Have now looked at the full list of attendees rather than filter for airports 15m-30m in Europe - which would have excluded BHX. You're right. BHX is listed, and so are LPL, EDI, LGW, LHR.
Personally I'd find it astonishing if MAG chose to include MAN under STN or MAN itself were happy to do that.

 

[domino85]

I can't see them doing that either, but it's the only way I could think of them attending. It'll be interesting to see if anything else comes from this because after the European one SunExpress expanded.

 

[Timberwolf]

Have now looked at the full list of attendees rather than filter for airports 15m-30m in Europe - which would have excluded BHX. You're right. BHX is listed, and so are LPL, EDI, LGW, LHR.
Personally I'd find it astonishing if MAG chose to include MAN under STN or MAN itself were happy to do that.

I'm not sure it matters these days.Do they ever lead to new routes after ?

I'm sure MAN Is already in talks with airlines they're interested in and perhaps don't need the speed dating chats.

BHX never attended Routes USA in recent months either.

 

[IanFarquharson]

I'm not sure it matters these days.Do they ever lead to new routes after ?

I'm sure MAN Is already in talks with airlines they're interested in and perhaps don't need the speed dating chats.

BHX never attended Routes USA in recent months either.

Routes meetings are probably the biggest events in the route development calendar and something BHX have attended for years.
All airports are in constant communications with airlines as you would expect but these Routes events are the big opportunity to meet existing and build new relationships / contacts.
Comparing it to speed dating is bizarre !
BHX would not spend the money to send teams around the world if it was not productive.

 

[Land23R]

I'm sure Ian is correct. Some years ago, I recall being told by a former member of the MAN Routes Development team that they can't afford not to attend these events, especially World Routes, for the reasons Ian mentions.
It's not just the formal booked appointments with airlines but the more informal chats and networking that takes place, as well perhaps as being able to note what the competition are doing.

 

[Timberwolf]

Routes meetings are probably the biggest events in the route development calendar and something BHX have attended for years.
All airports are in constant communications with airlines as you would expect but these Routes events are the big opportunity to meet existing and build new relationships / contacts.
Comparing it to speed dating is bizarre !
BHX would not spend the money to send teams around the world if it was not productive.

BHX did not attend Routes Americas in March 2023.

It was one of BHX own Route development team who a few years ago jokingly described Routes events as a sort of speed dating.
Saying, Airports and airlines are given a set time and table to speak to an airline and after the set time, can move onto the next they are interested in..

 

[laviation]

Pretty convincing talk of Shanghai, with the routes team going out to China (thanks Scottie Dog for the info - find his post here)

Juneyao who did announce PVG-HEL-MAN in 2019 for a 2020 start are aiming to finally launch it next year. Route would likely be direct as the reasoning for the initial HEL tag on was Juneyao awaiting 787 deliveries.

China Eastern, recently, have prioritised MAN in its expansion plans out of Shanghai for the next couple of years.

Some more from the Greater China region -

As mentioned, the routes team went out to China for negotiations with Hainan over increasing MAN. Would expect to see potentially a couple more frequencies added - currently 4 weekly - and/or an upgauge from the A333 to the B789

Cathay Pacific look fairly likely to return Honkers back to daily next summer (5 Weekly from 29JAN24)

 

[laviation]

ACL report should release to the general public the tail end of this week / start of next so do keep your eyes peeled for any developments. (cross-post from other threads)

My two 'wildcard' guesses are a two-aircraft Norse Atlantic base and an IAG short-haul base. (BA Euroflyer / Vueling)

 

[BlueManc]

My two 'wildcard' guesses are a two-aircraft Norse Atlantic base and an IAG short-haul base. (BA Euroflyer / Vueling)

Let's hope they are the Tampa Bay Buccs of Superbowl LV!

There's a few that literally don't seem to get off the ground - Amman, Shanghai, Bangkok, Mumbai, Delhi, multiple once-served US destinations and when will Islamabad return?

 

[Land23R]

Too true BlueManc. Even if there are one or two pleasant surprises in the ACL report for S24, recent history suggests slots for new long haul are often returned. Not sure whether the AI slots for a Feb'24 start to Mumbai are still in but otherwise I don't think optimism is high for next summer.

 

[Scottie Dog]

The following has been received this evening, however the link does not work. As soon as I have an update I'll let you know.

The link below is the MAN W23 Start of Season Report



Click in this link

view the report. (Or visit the ACL website to view the report).



W23 season started 29Oct 2023.



The Summer S24 Initial Coordination Report should follow next week

The link has been corrected and is as follows:

Microsoft Power BI

app.powerbi.com

For those without access to the link I'll provide a summary later tonight.

Here we go - all items are subject to change:

View attachment 29549

 

[laviation]

Very encouraging to see a proper Southampton service, and interesting to see once-weekly Stornoway. Loganair do codeshare with EUK on the transatlantic routes, so every little helps!

 

[laviation]

Air India intends to add more than 400 weekly flights to its domestic and international network during the winter schedule | India News - Times of India

India News: Air India plans to add over 400 weekly flights to its domestic and international routes by March 2024. The airline aims to strengthen its domestic net

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

The latest rumour is BOM-MAN from May.