A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

[rabbitfoot]

i have always wondered why peel decline to sell the airport if it is such a dead duck ?

and no one on here seems to think it will ever make it as an airport, and all the points you make are valid.

Peel said they was not a credible offer but when CDC offer to buy the airport , it was peel who turn them down and instead proposed a leasehold.

there is no way they are going to build on there for a lifetime, so that could not be the reason.

 

[pug]

i have always wondered why peel decline to sell the airport if it is such a dead duck ?

and no one on here seems to think it will ever make it as an airport, and all the points you make are valid.

Peel said they was not a credible offer but when CDC offer to buy the airport , it was peel who turn them down and instead proposed a leasehold.

there is no way they are going to build on there for a lifetime, so that could not be the reason.

They never declined to sell it, but they’d only sell at the right price. If you look at how it played out at MME, they sold it for £40 million which is what they invested into it. So you’re probably looking at £250+ million to take it off their hands, and they’d gladly offload it. The lack of credible offers is likely because anyone who may have looked at it, the council included, will have offered way below that to buy it. The CPO was a non starter because they’d crush CDC with legal challenges. Similarly, if the airport doesn’t go ahead the council have conceded that it will be lost as an airport and they’d be forced to look at alternatives for the site. I expect the council will have agreed with Peel an option to purchase down the line as part of their unrealistic ambitions for the airport should the private sector decide it’s a great thing to invest in, you know cos look at MAG etc..

Was involved in a chat elsewhere about Corvera airport, somewhere I played a small part in the opening of about 6 years or so ago. It’s a fantastic facility but has fallen way below the projected employment figures and far exceeded the costs.

The airport has faced considerable controversy and criticism due to significant cost overruns and unmet expectations. The Regional Assembly of Murciaapproved a commission in 2024 to investigate the “failed settlement for damages” in the airport’s construction and operation. Key criticisms include the closure of the nearby San Javier Airport—previously serving over 2 million passengers in 2007—in favor of Corvera Airport, which only surpassed 800,000 passengers in 2023.[8] Despite earlier promises that the new infrastructure would cost "not a single euro" to the citizens of Murcia, the airport has allegedly incurred costs exceeding 300 million euros as of 2024.[9]Additionally, initial projections that the airport would support 16 flights per hour and create 20,000 jobs[10][11]have not materialized, as current operations and employment figures fall far below these targets.[12]

Despite its low utilization, Corvera Airport has faced significant issues with flight punctuality, making it the least punctual airport in Spain, with only 64.5% of flights departing on time. This has added to the ongoing concerns about its efficiency and viability as a regional transport hub.[13]

Región de Murcia International Airport - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I remember years ago, well before the airport closed, that I used Ciudad Real as an example of what happens when you build an airport for which there is no demand.

Ciudad Real International Airport - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The similarities with DSA past, present and future are striking, only in the case of Corvera at least they can say it promotes inbound tourism. You’ll not have a load of Spanish tourists flocking to cleggy for 14 nights of some possible sun, likely rain and lots of sea fret.

 

[David_itl]

I noticed the YP story on Facebook and someone in the comments wanted DSA to have flights to Australia, Japan, China and California. Another buffoon said they through that both Emirates and Etihad has chosen MAN is their UK "hub and so wouldn't likely want to move their hub but perhaps one of the other Middle Eastern carriers like Gulf Air would be tempted.

yes I responded alluding to the subsidies and how even them couldn't make routes work, and no serious airline would think about adding scheduled services to Small Penis airport at Finningley.

 

[pug]

I noticed the YP story on Facebook and someone in the comments wanted DSA to have flights to Australia, Japan, China and California. Another buffoon said they through that both Emirates and Etihad has chosen MAN is their UK "hub and so wouldn't likely want to move their hub but perhaps one of the other Middle Eastern carriers like Gulf Air would be tempted.

yes I responded alluding to the subsidies and how even them couldn't make routes work, and no serious airline would think about adding scheduled services to Small Penis airport at Finningley.

These opinions not limited to the average person, the Chair of Sheffield Chamber transport forum is constantly posting stuff like this, most recently saying that LOT should be a good airline to fly from DSA because they only serve London at the moment (although I’m pretty sure they serve MAN?). It’s people like this who are pushing this along as they are in positions of influence, yet they clearly have no clue what they’re on about. Friends in the trades may ask if he’s ’smoking crack’, but it’s clear he’s another one who’s basing the entire thing on hopes and wishes and hasn’t any grounding in reality whatsoever.

The principles are simple. Airlines have high fixed costs and there’s lots of risk associated with this. They tend to gravitate towards developed markets. Your Lufthansa’s LOTS etc will not serve an airport that has fewer than 5mppa because it heightens risk. KLM will serve smaller markets because of the their legacy regional connections, but they are really the only one who would ever entertain somewhere like DSA as a small airport, and even then there are constraints due to competition. Emerald are another, but they appear to not be making the same mistakes as Aer Arran and Stobart did.

They’re all once again setting themselves up for disappointment and it works in the councils favour. These are the exact same things that were talked about 20 years ago.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Just a quick correction to @pug's post. LOT do not currently serve Manchester.
I really appreciate all the posts on this thread - thank you all.

 

[GolfFox]

I noticed the YP story on Facebook and someone in the comments wanted DSA to have flights to Australia, Japan, China and California. Another buffoon said they through that both Emirates and Etihad has chosen MAN is their UK "hub and so wouldn't likely want to move their hub but perhaps one of the other Middle Eastern carriers like Gulf Air would be tempted.

yes I responded alluding to the subsidies and how even them couldn't make routes work, and no serious airline would think about adding scheduled services to Small Penis airport at Finn

Finger trouble! For the next few months I guess that there is not much to talk about so the frustrations heighten and comments seem to become even more silly. Whilst such posts provide entertainment sensible responses will not be believed because the expectations of most (but not all) of the supporters have been elevated to an unrealistic level. No one has explained to them that without a very significant catchment area on the doorstep it's going to be a limited operation.

 

[pug]

Finger trouble! For the next few months I guess that there is not much to talk about so the frustrations heighten and comments seem to become even more silly. Whilst such posts provide entertainment sensible responses will not be believed because the expectations of most (but not all) of the supporters have been elevated to an unrealistic level. No one has explained to them that without a very significant catchment area on the doorstep it's going to be a limited operation.

We saw this last time, only it’s CDC allowing wild rumours to spread and not Peel. All it does is lead to people supporting the project without anyone having to officially misinform or manage expectations and it’s wrong in my view, particularly when it comes to the public sector.

People like Chadwick and his followers seem to think that airlines are like personal taxi services. Perhaps someone could provide them with a link to Netjets or one of those business jet charter companies so they can see the options for their requirement to get to Outer Mongolia ‘cos I have a family friend who lives there and I visit them once every few years so I hope there’s a flight to there’.

 

[Aviador]

I do hope airlines do their due diligence before commencing flights from there.

 

[White Heather]

I do hope airlines do their due diligence before commencing flights from there.

If they don't, they will learn the hard way and have management that need a good slap. ,

 

[GolfFox]

I do hope airlines do their due diligence before commencing flights from there.

Don't think that there will be much danger in that. I expect it might be a similar pattern as before - if even that - a couple of airlines who are getting paid to operate but then clearing off when the incentive period comes to an end but who knows.

 

[pug]

Don't think that there will be much danger in that. I expect it might be a similar pattern as before - if even that - a couple of airlines who are getting paid to operate but then clearing off when the incentive period comes to an end but who knows.

I don’t see how they’ll afford incentive payments. If for instance the airport costs £60million to reopen, and they must be anticipating losses for at least 5 years until their expected break even then that can’t be any less than another £50million. Then you have the lease payments and payments to their ‘strategic partners’, the pit of money suddenly starts running dry.

I think they’ll have to forego incentives like Peel offered. Instead in order to break even they’ll have to actually charge for things from airlines AND passengers, not just expect that they will get to critical mass to break even just on passengers alone. Similar story with freight, they won’t get very far with that sector unless they actually invest in it properly and that investment will need tangible interest to be viable.

MAI are in a solid position elsewhere, because they operate airports in markets that airlines want to serve, so they don’t need to bend over backwards to get them in. It’s just not like that with DSA where an airline can happily serve LBA or even just MAN and not have to bend concerned about market share in Doncaster.

 

[GolfFox]

I don’t see how they’ll afford incentive payments. If for instance the airport costs £60million to reopen, and they must be anticipating losses for at least 5 years until their expected break even then that can’t be any less than another £50million. Then you have the lease payments and payments to their ‘strategic partners’, the pit of money suddenly starts running dry.

I think they’ll have to forego incentives like Peel offered. Instead in order to break even they’ll have to actually charge for things from airlines AND passengers, not just expect that they will get to critical mass to break even just on passengers alone. Similar story with freight, they won’t get very far with that sector unless they actually invest in it properly and that investment will need tangible interest to be viable.

MAI are in a solid position elsewhere, because they operate airports in markets that airlines want to serve, so they don’t need to bend over backwards to get them in. It’s just not like that with DSA where an airline can happily serve LBA or even just MAN and not have to bend concerned about market share in Doncaster.

Yes - fraught with Catch 22 situations

 

[Egyptian King]

The mechanic is going to do a vlog inside the House of Commons after the local political party paid/invited him

 

[GolfFox]

The mechanic is going to do a vlog inside the House of Commons after the local political party paid/invited him

Thanks for the 'heads up' - you have to admire the tenacity if nothing else! Unfortunately won't be watching the 'spectacle' - football on TV tonight!!

 

[pug]

Thanks for the 'heads up' - you have to admire the tenacity if nothing else! Unfortunately won't be watching the 'spectacle' - football on TV tonight!!

Suspect he’s a useful tool to the MP who’s arranged it because he’ll be posting it all over Facebook where he has a captive audience. I don’t really know what these parliamentary debates actually do, is this MO just going to stand and talk a load of rubbish about what DSA will do for the economy? Seems a bit pointless if they aren’t asking for more financial support.

Anyway not sure how many will turn up since PM is apparently putting us on a war footing of sorts. That’ll do no favours to commercial air travel if anything kicks off!

 

[Egyptian King]

No new funding

No guarantee the airspace is restored

 

[White Heather]

No new funding

No guarantee the airspace is restored

DSA should only get a fraction of the airspace it had last time, assuming it gets some. What it had before was ridiculous for what turned out to be a small regional airport.

 

[pug]

No new funding

No guarantee the airspace is restored

It was just a bunch of people talking in nonsense soundbites about something they clearly don’t understand.

Bit of a concern that the guy who makes the final call on it is having public pressure applied in spite of serious concerns raised from numerous corners about it not being a responsible investment.

 

[Egyptian King]

It was just a bunch of people talking in nonsense soundbites about something they clearly don’t understand.

Bit of a concern that the guy who makes the final call on it is having public pressure applied in spite of serious concerns raised from numerous corners about it not being a responsible investment.

Oliver will probably get a promotion in return for approving it, that is what happens in public life.
It will be whoever the Mayor is having to manage this with no Gainshare left, and in all likelihood, it will be Reform or Nick Fletcher.

 

[northsouth]

Watched the clip on YouTube seemed a waste of time ,only a handful of people in the house listing to the MP seem a bit like he was pleading the point about jobs prosperity growth and even history about finningley, nothing detailed mentioned about any financial figures any why it failed previously only seems to thank all the efforts from the council, I said in many previous posts I can’t believe that some senior mp or government officials have stepped in to seriously question why this has got this far