Route Development & Rumours

[hammerb32]

Assuming it's Norwegian let's have some thoughts and predictions on what routes we can expect.

Boston, Bangkok and Mumbai mentioned so far, I'm suggesting Orlando and Baltimore.

 

[Brum X]

What about Norweigan entering the Canada market ?? They could seriously give Air Transat a good kick up the a-s.

 

[JENNYJET]

It was not so long ago that Sir Raymond and others were trumpeting the Beijing Capital Airlines service to Beijing and it was proven.

It, however, was not the fault of the aforementioned members that the service was withdrawn.

It intrigues me that not a word of explanation has emerged to date!!

 

[flymetothemoon]

Canada is a good call for Norwegian,it is woefully underserved and Mr.Kehoe and the routes
team have indicated that Canada is a priority.Boston,Orlando and new routes to India are
probably the first to be tried though

 

[Ray Finkle]

the Beijing Capital Airlines service to Beijing and it was proven.

It, however, was not the fault of the aforementioned members that the service was withdrawn.

It intrigues me that not a word of explanation has emerged to date!!

I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear an explanation.

Routes are announced with as much fanfare as can be gathered, routes are dropped without so much as a mention.

Mr Pearson has said that he is confident of a service to Beijing in 2017. If it was Mr Kehoe then I would be mildly sceptical as it seems as if he can be a bit of a motormouth on occasions. Mr Pearson however seems to speak in a very level headed way and I'm not aware of him previously making statements that he can't back up?

 

[davecleaver777]

hey Ray your the main reason I come on here, a sensible forum full of fact keep up the good work buddy. So hopefully the red end pointy things maybe heading our way ..... routes we would like ??

 

[jfy1999]

Well I've been having a think and despite the pressing need for MCO and probably Boston too, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Norwegian, in starting a long haul base here, chose to launch JFK as one of their first routes, if not the first. I'm not going to let my pessimistic self believe there isn't enough demand though, in fact I think we need the lower prices to claw back demand. The volume of traffic to New York down at LHR leads to a fare war and flights are usually cheaper at LHR, as a result people are pulled down the M40.

Looking further afield I would like to get Vegas and a route to the US west coast. Preferably San Francisco/Oakland as I've heard it's much nicer than Los Angeles. I can't see us getting both.

Do we need Norwegian to start Canada? For me it depends on the outcome of the RD team's talks with Rouge and Westjet, however those are probably still at an early-ish stage because I'd have expected Air Transat to react if they knew their rivals were sniffing around.

I'm a little less enthusiastic about India since I believe AI/Qatar/Turkmenistan have it pretty much sewn up for the short term, but Bangkok would have me dancing in the streets

 

[hammerb32]

Fares to NYC from BHX are eye watering at times. I've been fortunate enough to fly over to the States quite a few times over the last couple of years, usually UA from BHX but also BA and AA from LHR, service from the 'legacy' carriers isn't exactly inspiring. Be nice to see Norwegian mix it up a little, TCX certainly seem to be making an impression up north with a better service offering and lower fares.

JFY if Bangkok is announced i expect a video of the street dancing posted....

 

[Ray Finkle]

As much as I'd like it to happen I really can't see BKK.

It will be a big step for them and they're most likely to go in conservatively until Birmingham proves itself. Any 787 ops will most likely be to MCO and LAS, possibly FLL too. I could see BOS and possibly JFK or BWI following on the MAX. I wouldn't totally rule out the west coast but I think that we may just see Florida and Vegas to start. There is also the outside option of a Caribbean route.

The other option is India. Norwegian have said that they were aiming to start India ops this winter and the CEO has said that flights from Delhi, Kolkata and Mumbai could arrive into BHX and LGW. If their struggles with the US authorities are putting expansion there off (the CEO has said that they can fly there on existing permissions) then they may look east.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens and what the autumn 'announcement season' may bring. I just hope that we hear soon, there was several months between mentioning Jet2 and the actual announcement, I started to lose faith myself

 

[Ray Finkle]

I wouldn't get any hopes up but the boss of POP, the potential new start up at STN, has said that services from Birmingham and/or East Midlands remain in the mix. He also says that Bangladesh is a possibility for the future. I wish them the best of luck but won't be holding my breath.

And why the choice of London Stansted?

Stansted is a very useful middle ground in many ways because the whole of East London is part of its catchment area and, in fact, it’s very accessible by train from the whole of the London conurbation. But it’s also got good road and rail links with the Midlands.

We have had discussions with potential service providers about the merits of using Birmingham and/or East Midlands airports and they remain in the mix. So, whilst we’ve decided to base ourselves at Stansted, there’s no reason why we couldn’t also operate from Birmingham and East Midlands by bussing crews to and from Stansted. We could also run buses from, say, Birmingham city centre with an on-board check-in system so when passengers get off at the other end, they already have their boarding passes in hand and their baggage has already been tagged. How efficient would that be compared to the whole business of dragging your bags into the terminal at any airport?

http://aviationtribune.com/ceo-interviews/interview-pops-chief-operations-officer-founding-partner/

 

[BHXsupporter]

Well you wouldn't catch me on a bus between Birmingham city centre and Stansted! A terrible journey of M6, A14 and M11. It looks straightforward but there are routine traffic issues at several points on the way through and I have missed a Stansted flight in the past watching my flight go from a motorway queue a few miles away. Checking in en route sounds good but how long would you need to embark before needing to be there? It's 120 miles - they'd be chancing it for anything under 2.5 h and longer would be more successful statistically. For exactly the same reasons I wouldn't travel to LHR or LGW by bus.

 

[rutamkrd]

Gentlemen with regards to a Norwegian base just stop a minute and analyse some of your suggestions as some aren't even possible due to the bi-laterals and relevant fifth/sixth freedoms.

They can't serve Canada from the UK or even the most of the Caribbean (French/Dutch isles that are EU members through their home nation excluded), Bangkok is served only from their three Scandinavian capitals where there are very long standing positive bi-latteral arrangements AND very heavy tourist traffic for some reason ( some of which is rather unsavoury)

So any long haul WILL be the usual suspects under the EU-US openskys treaty.

That is Boston with a max or 321LR when they arrive
Similarly JFK

And mousewitz (MCO) twice week or W pattern with a 788 - Bout it really.

West Coast would be some distance in time off as it has yet to perform from Gatwick.

I can't see them operating any isolated long haul route destination from a UK regional airport that is unserved from the three Scandinavian plus Gatwick major bases - That's a recipe for painfully expensive crewing costs - Totally beyond their tightly controlled business model - simply won't happen.

Now those max/321LRs deliveries are quite some distance in the future and BREXIT may yet effect their deployment within the UK if and only if we are unable to get an addendum to remain covered within the EU-US openskys treaty (I think the UK will but there is a significant risk)

IMHO those max/321LRs will find a way into Eire and possibly Western France (which is ripe for trans atlantic growth) markets and may be used reduce operating costs on some of those seriously long Scandinavia-Canary holiday routes.

I can't even see how a Norwegian carrier would get through the Indian bureaucracy and gain clearance to operate UK- Indian routes any time soon. The Indian authorities will insist in requiring a majority UK ownership and a simple AOC won't cut it imho - This is a country that still applies seat capacity limits as a tool within negotiated bi-laterals - An arbitrary measure that over last third years largely abandoned in most treaties !

 

[richard winterbourn]

So there you are, Mr R has told we haven't got a hope in Hell. Let's put all our toys back in the box and go and watch the buses.
The Hell i will. I like this forum because we are friendly and courteous and stitched in between all the success of the past two years, we have been allowed to express our wishes and, yes, dream a little. And i for one am going to continue in that vein.
People always want to put us Brummies down - but we are made of sterner stuff than that and will always make up our own minds.

 

[BHXsupporter]

From the dried plum site wrt Delta and Atlanta:

'Read a post by a BHX handling agent on another forum and this is expected to be announced "soon" for a 2017 start.'

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/506454-birmingham-6-a-202.html

 

[jfy1999]

That post was by my alter ego (or not, as I use the same pseudonym on both forums) and I was actually referring to a couple of posts by Glenn and Ray on this forum!

 

[rutamkrd]

So there you are, Mr R has told we haven't got a hope in Hell. Let's put all our toys back in the box and go and watch the buses.
The Hell i will. I like this forum because we are friendly and courteous and stitched in between all the success of the past two years, we have been allowed to express our wishes and, yes, dream a little. And i for one am going to continue in that vein.
People always want to put us Brummies down - but we are made of sterner stuff than that and will always make up our own minds.

Where did i dumb down the possibility of a Norwegian base at all - just a reasoned critic of what can or can't be expected based on legal realties and niceties .BTW all those factors and restrictions also apply at that other regional airport said to be in the running.

Other possibility that could be possible for Norwegian under various UK - Third country opensky treaties however do include Dubai and Singapore !

As Norwegian has a working relationship with Fred Olsen cruises either of those plus Fort Lauderdale in the future might work on a rather low frequency with the appropriate support contract but of course still reliant on main bases also contributing.

Other oft talked about max/321LR routes could include BWI down the line I suppose.

Differing subject BHX-ATL is almost certain with VS/DL as they continue to carve a rather large presence in the UK regions - In markets where they know the data very well via the Virgin booking databases and long standing KLM Joint venture operations.

A rumor should at least have reasonable levels of speculation and supporting evidence not just fantasy based to be credible !

Just such a rule applies to the Atlanta story and not much of the Norwegian tagline.

 

[Paulsstrange]

From the dried plum site wrt Delta and Atlanta:

'Read a post by a BHX handling agent on another forum and this is expected to be announced "soon" for a 2017 start.'

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/506454-birmingham-6-a-202.html

Is there person quoting a previous post off this forum one wonders ?

Either way it seems numerous sources are suggesting this route is likely fingers crossed...

 

[Paulsstrange]

From the dried plum site wrt Delta and Atlanta:

'Read a post by a BHX handling agent on another forum and this is expected to be announced "soon" for a 2017 start.'

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/506454-birmingham-6-a-202.html

Is this person quoting a previous post off this forum one wonders as I'm sure he/she is also on this forum with the same name ?

Either way it seems numerous sources are suggesting this route is likely fingers crossed...

 

[Brum X]

So there you are, Mr R has told we haven't got a hope in Hell. Let's put all our toys back in the box and go and watch the buses.
The Hell i will. I like this forum because we are friendly and courteous and stitched in between all the success of the past two years, we have been allowed to express our wishes and, yes, dream a little. And i for one am going to continue in that vein.
People always want to put us Brummies down - but we are made of sterner stuff than that and will always make up our own minds.

BHX has got a great future ahead and so has the City Of Birmingham.

As supporters of a certain football club say KEEP THE FAITH and your reward will follow.

If it is to be a new service to Boston and a new twice weekly flight to MCO with another route somewhere, i would be very happy with that to start with.

 

[Butty]

Fares to NYC from BHX are eye watering at times. I've been fortunate enough to fly over to the States quite a few times over the last couple of years, usually UA from BHX but also BA and AA from LHR, service from the 'legacy' carriers isn't exactly inspiring. Be nice to see Norwegian mix it up a little, TCX certainly seem to be making an impression up north with a better service offering and lower fares.

JFY if Bangkok is announced i expect a video of the street dancing posted....

Eye watering but still popular and still going. Makes you wonder how the US market will open up when a Low cost airline starts crossing the pond.