Future Infrastructure Developments

[a300boy]

I see on another forum discussing the merits of Leeds and other local airports in Yorkshire that the runway here is being described as the worst in Europe and in need of extensive repair.
I hope this is not the case and is only the opinion of an individual who may or may not be qualified to assess the situation.

 

[White Heather]

I am sure that it isn't the best, but equally sure that such comments are total nonsense - the CAA would be on the case if there was a problem with the runway. No doubt a comment from someone who is pro DSA.

 

[lbaspotter]

A300boy I'm 100% sure you and the 15 other European Airlines wouldn't use LBA runway if it wasnt safe enough.Its a story made up and in my eyes a load of bull.

I also think the CAA would have a field day if they thought the runway wasn't up to scratch.

 

[a300boy]

Its fine for my light aircraft or I would have been complaining to the appropriate people.
The post seemed to have been written by an aircrew member but could be anyone of course.
Leeds is not liked by many operators for all the reasons we have debated in the past.
I am just disappointed but realistic about the future so will accept the inevitable slow growth as I have no option.
The expansion at Mancheter last year together with that planned for this year is incredible and must have an effect on our future and other regional airports in the north.
I wish I had as much confidence in the CAA as you and White Heather have.

 

[Aviador]

A300boy I'm 100% sure you and the 15 other European Airlines wouldn't use LBA runway if it wasnt safe enough.Its a story made up and in my eyes a load of bull.

I also think the CAA would have a field day if they thought the runway wasn't up to scratch.

From what I understand, the CAA have made numerous recommendations over the years and added restrictions to various parts of the operation out of LBA. The most obvious ones include the width restrictions on Taxiway Alpha which has been inforce for some years now. The 757 used to be able to enter/exit the runway at A2 but it was discovered the taxiway was a couple of feet too narrow. I believe it's the CAA that restrict the size of aircraft on stands 1-5 because because it affects the ILS localiser.

I don't know at what point the CAA will insist, but I was once told you are supposed to be able to see the entire aircraft maneuvering area from the Fire Station Watchroom. This isn't possible at LBA because of the terminal buildings and stand layout. I think there may also be a similar requirement for ATC.

"Determining the dimensioning of these areas is challenging to most airports, which are trying to find the right balance between over-dimensioning (leading in unnecessary operational restrictions and capacity limitations) or under- dimensioning (leading potentially to unsafe situations)."

Advanced Airport Solutions.

Some years ago the YEP ran a story saying the EU was going to force airports to increase runway overrun areas siting LBA as one of the worst offenders because of the land slope at the beginning of the runway. I never heard or saw anymore about this story so I'm not sure why nothing further was said about it? It maybe that LBA doesn't need to carry out such work as it uses the first 300m of the actual paved runway as it's RESA, the very area which would be beyond the runway paved area at most other airports.

This RESA extension at Sydney cost in the region of £58m to build so I guess LBA won't be in any rush to build one.

http://www.airportsinternational.com/2010/07/no-mean-feat/5248

Designed to prevent this:

Or this:

There are alternatives which could be cheaper and more suitable to LBA such as this:

EMASMAX Arrester bed http://www.aircraftarrestingsystems.com/commercial.html

 

[Aviador]

I see on another forum discussing the merits of Leeds and other local airports in Yorkshire that the runway here is being described as the worst in Europe and in need of extensive repair.
I hope this is not the case and is only the opinion of an individual who may or may not be qualified to assess the situation.

Would that be "LEEDS APPROACH" by any chance, the East Leeds centric?

In all honesty, we know LBA isn't in the greatest position but we also know it is possible to make it considerably better than what it is. Many of the obstacles LBA faces can be overcome. It's position on a hill is not the best place to site an airport, but it is central to the populous it serves which is a positive thing. Many airport managers would give anything to be 9 and 7 miles from the city centres of cities as large as Leeds (3rd) & Bradford (6th).

http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uk_topcities.html
.

 

[White Heather]

With regard to the runway condition - the fact that LBA's is ribbed concrete slabs, each with its own expansion joints, is bound to result in a somewhat 'rough' feel when using it compared to something like a tarmac type surface which is smooth. It does help the runway drain faster though, lasts longer (it has been there 52 years already) and should also provide additional braking action when there is snow or ice around provided that the brushing equipment can actually get the snow/ice out of the grooves in the first place. The runway has had to have patch repairs done on numerous occasions in recent years, as do many runways, but that doesn't make them unsafe and to suggest LBA is the worst in Europe is totally ridiculous - particularly bearing in mind how many airports are in Europe. I doubt very much that the englightened person making this nonsensical comment has ever used every runway in Europe.

As for the CAA, they are very much involved in ensuring that airports in the UK are up to scratch and I don't believe for one minute that they fail to do this at LBA or anywhere else. Not sure why you have such little faith in them A300boy. Apart from anything else though, whatever we think about Bridgepoint and their investments (or lack of depending on point of view), the people that run LBA are experienced professionals who take airfield safety very seriously. There is no way that they would overlook runway defects or fail to ensure the runway is up to standard as the implications, should something go wrong, would be significant.

 

[a300boy]

Some good information and discussion points have been made which is why I introduced the subject.
My comment about the Caa is due to several situations I have been party to and witnessed during my career both as aircrew and ground crew.
Others may disagree with my conclusions which is fine by me.

 

[White Heather]

Further to today's consultative committee meeting here is an update on the infrastructure and development of the airport, and so it is all together I have included a couple of snippets about buses too which operate within the airport boundaries.

• LBA has appointed a new Head of Property Development, Charles Johnson. He is from Leeds, obviously passionate and his previous role was to deliver the Kirkstall Forge station and housing project. He will deal with all strategic, land, planning and development matters at the airport before handing over to the Head of Projects, Sophie Murrs, who will then oversee the physical works on site. A clear sign of things to come and both are impressive. His key role is to implement the Masterplan. This is now back with the council for any final comment and should be published in its final form in February (2017 before you ask!). Charles will also implement public transport initiatives in conjunction with the council and West Yorkshire Combined Authority, including all matters relating to the Parkway Station and access road scheme. He confirmed LBA want Option 1, which appears to be the only viable option in view of the proposed park and ride scheme, but he confirmed that the final decision had not yet been taken by the project board. The intention is that the road scheme, station, park and ride etc. are all completed together but this seems to have gone back 2 years now as the year given for completion was 2024. He will also oversee all development of the Airport Economic Hub and plans for this will be submitted to planning in the summer of 2017.

• It was confirmed that the airport have planning approval to carry out works to the White House Lane roundabout and this will be delivered this summer. The roundabout will include a 6m by 5m airport logo in the centre, which will be illuminated. The slides of how it will look were impressive.

Sophie Murrs then confirmed the list of works undertaken in 2016 which were as follows:

• Completion of new car hire centre (proving a huge success apparently and has freed up considerable space in the terminal ground floor, which has enabled the current works to be undertaken).

• Full toilet refurbishment throughout terminal (photos shown looked impressive)

• Current works to open up terminal front, create more space, replace blacked out windows, new floors - I had a look at these works and there is some way to go before they are finished but it has helped increase space to move around and lightened up the whole area, although there are still a huge number of pillars which sadly will always be there.

• New floor area above check in hall A, providing 270m2 of additional space and approximately 100 more seats, although these are for the eateries and bars, not for those that don't want a meal or drink (but see below). Nevertheless it is 270m2 more space than we have now.

• Planning approval secured for the airside mezzanine floor infill, which will fill the gap upstairs between the old part of the terminal and the extension to the Eastern side. The infill will not only fill in the gap, providing terminal space where currently there is external external roof space, it will also continue through into the eastern end extension turning that into a two floor building. This will deliver a minimum of 440 new seats and these will NOT be linked to eateries and bars. They will be freely available. The contract for this will be let very shortly. Whether it is delivered by summer or deferred for an October 2017 start will depend on the programme of works and whether it can be guaranteed for completion before the peak season commences, but it sounds worth waiting for if we have to wait.

• LED lighting has been installed in check in hall B (Jet2)

• Entrance canopy to terminal repaired, decorated and new LED lighting and signage installed.

• Mid stay car park reconfigured to improve space utilisation

• Contract now awarded to completely replace all airfield lighting and lighting ducting, approach light masts etc. with LED lighting. This will commence next week and will be carried out overnight when the airport is closed throughout the rest of this winter and all of next winter. It will take 2 years to complete.

• New car park barriers introduced which operate on a token system instead of paper tickets.

• On the transport side - 2 brand new Alexander/Plaxton single deck coaches bought and now operating on the car park shuttles. The old ones (of which there are 3) have been retained as back up so there now 5 car park shuttle buses available. I saw one of these after the meeting and it looked smart and was full of passengers too. It was stated that the older buses were unreliable and therefore so was the shuttle bus service. The new buses have resolved this and there is now a greatly improved service on new vehicles.

For 2017, the following is planned:

• Additional (3rd) exit barrier to be constructed from drop off express car park

• Consideration being given to construction of covered walkway from drop off area to terminal

• Commencement (and possible completion) of airside mezzanine infill project (as above) to create at least 440 more seats which will not be linked to any bar or eatery and therefore freely available.

• New self check in and bag drop facilities in Check In Hall A and introduction of common airline use check in desks by March. There will be 12 self check in points which will be a similar system to that now in use in Edinburgh. This will be extended to Hall B at a later date. The system is exceptionally efficient and versatile.

• New way-finding signage throughout terminal & new signage for external road & parking areas.

• New flooring in Check In Hall A

• Additional X Ray lane in Security area

• Relocation of, and demolition of existing Swissport desk in terminal to open up more space in that area

• Re-organisation of departure gate processes so that they are common use by any airline (different airlines currently use different gates). Linked to this, the LBA have purchased 3 more airside high capacity bendy-buses, to increase the use of buses for disembarking etc. The current 2 ex London bendy-buses, plus 2 standard buses will be retained. The intention is to bus passengers directly to the terminal more often so they by-pass the departure gate areas. This will prevent backlogs caused by departing pax having to wait while arriving pax have crossed the area outside as is the case now. The intention is to keep arrivals and departures away from each other completely as far as possible and speed up the process for both

• Upgrade to fuel farm so that bowsers can fill with jet fuel at the same time as tankers are delivering fuel into the storage tanks. Currently bowsers have to wait until fuel deliveries have finished as there is a common in/out filler system. This will reduce delays and it is also to conform to new regulatory requirements.

I did discuss afterwards the issues of parking stands, taxiways and the terminal extension. These remain on the agenda for the future along with something being done to upgrade and increase capacity of the baggage reclaim areas, which I pointed out were completely inadequate.

Although none are confirmed for 2017 I did come away with the feeling that things are starting to happen at LBA and will do so more quickly going forward. There was a real air of positivity for the future.

Within the meeting, Tony Hallwood covered route development and progress and whilst there was nothing we don't know about, he was positive for the future and promised more significant route additions over the next couple of years. The general theme was that the passenger numbers will increase at a rate that requires the acceleration of developments in the terminal and on the airfield and I guess that the appointment of both a Head of Development and Head of Projects to work in unison can only be a good sign.

Hope you all find this informative. I have posted information re the April to December passenger figures on the Consultative Committee thread.

​

 

[Aviador]

Very helpful and informative Heather. Good to hear things appear to be moving.

 

[Aviador]

Heather, Is there any chance of photos or renders of the various things you've been shown today subject to confidentiality.

 

[White Heather]

Sadly not Aviador. We saw photos and architects designs etc. on a projector screen but nothing was shared with the committee to take away.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Thanks for the fulsome update White Heather, although little additions, more seats, another x-ray lane, another exit car park etc. all positive news.
A covered area from the car park to the terminal would be great and some sheltered area so those who need to be placed in wheelchairs have some protection from the elements, it always seems to be raining when we walk across this area.

 

[Aviador]

It would need horizontal rain proofing!

 

[Bigman]

It's a shame we cannot do what they are doing at Vilnius this year, ie shut the runway for a few months, rip the damn thing up, bulldoze the hump, relay from scratch, put the new LED lighting in, sort the ILS out and install ground radar at the same time. Right, back to sleep now!!!!

 

[a300boy]

With you on all points Bigman but no will or business case to do so as thing stand so pointless wishing.

 

[lbaspotter]

Concrete runway can be resurfaced over with tarmac, it's just that it's a big job as it would mean having to scrape and grove the top surface of the existing concrete runway first. Then a bottom and finished top layer of tarmac could be applied after which more groves would have to be cut in for drainage/surface water run off and runway line painting would be required as well.

So Instead of closing down for a solid 2 months like they are doing in Vilnius this summer they could plan it the way East Midlands did, ie close the runway in the quite period November-December for 48 hours from 8pm Saturday to 8pm Monday.
In LBAs case might be better running from 8pm Friday to 6pm Sunday. Could also possibly include all day Wednesday with it been so quite.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Certainly don't want this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6238311.stm

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Re-organisation of departure gate processes so that they are common use by any airline (different airlines currently use different gates). Linked to this, the LBA have purchased 3 more airside high capacity bendy-buses, to increase the use of buses for disembarking etc. The current 2 ex London bendy-buses, plus 2 standard buses will be retained. The intention is to bus passengers directly to the terminal more often so they by-pass the departure gate areas. This will prevent backlogs caused by departing pax having to wait while arriving pax have crossed the area outside as is the case now. The intention is to keep arrivals and departures away from each other completely as far as possible and speed up the process for both

Perfect plan for the airport and for all the airlines. Make it more streamlined you'd hope. Did they mention however plans to improve the arrival doors where currently buses drop off arriving passengers? Also did the airport mention who will be driving these buses? At the moment they are airport owned, swissport driven and only trained and Jet2 are neglected when a swissport flight lands minutes AFTER a Jet2. Should hopefully decrease immigration times as a bus load is easier to process then constant flow.

Guessing Stand 5/6 and Airbridge 7/8 will use as current the arrival flows?

This plan on paper is going to work so much better then the current system (and should hopefully allow for the current arrival lanes to be turned into more departure space) however as i've highlighted above thats only one of the many problems that could occur.

 

[White Heather]

With you on all points Bigman but no will or business case to do so as thing stand so pointless wishing.

And if they did, what happens to all the aircraft, flights, passengers, staff, their wages etc? I rather suspect airlines would have a lot to say - mostly objections. They could move their ops elsewhere - and not come back. One of the main purposes of the runway being built the way it is, was so that it can be repaired one concrete block at a time with quick drying concrete, enabling runway repairs to be done quickly and without disruption. You don't close an airport at all if you can avoid it.