Future Infrastructure Developments

[leedslad]

I ask two simple questions to anyone objecting to the new terminal on environmental grounds.

What is the scenario if this terminal is blocked? How is that better for the environment?

As I see it there are only two scenarios if terminal is blocked and both are worse for the environment.

Scenario 1. The terminal is blocked so instead the airport built the Arrivals extension for which it already has permission for. Same growth in flights but less energy efficient buildings in place so worse for environment than new terminal.

Scenario 2. Airport decides not to build anything so the 3m extra pax that would have flown from new terminal now instead drive to Manc to take same flight. Since they are now driving to Manc they are creating more ground transport pollution to take same flight so worse for environment.

 

[XEROX]

Height	Descending	Climbing
1000-2000	Airbus A321 at 1,400ft 69.6dBA
	Boeing B737-400 at 1,400ft 70.7 dBA
	Airbus A320 at 1,400ft 64.9 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 1,400ft 67.7 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 1,400ft (with train noise included in clip for comparison)
2000-3000		Boeing B737-800 at 2,800ft 70.9 dBA
3000-4000	Boeing B734 at 3,300ft 62.1 dBA	Boeing B737-800 at 3,700ft 70.8 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 3,500ft 64.1 dBA	Airbus A319 at 3,800ft 70.2 dBA
	Airbus A320 at 3,700ft 64.7 dBA
	Airbus A321 at 3,700ft 58.1 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 3,800ft 60.3 dBA
4000-5000	Airbus A320 at 4,100ft 59.2 dBA	Airbus A319 at 4,500ft 69.7 dBA
		Airbus A319 at 4,800ft 67.9 dBA
6000-7000	Airbus A321 at 6,000ft 60.2 dBA

 

[Bigman]

Isn't that what the NIMBY's want thought Leedslad? Not in my back yard, but not bothered if they go somewhere else. They will be moaning about the noise the dustbin trucks make early morning next!!

 

[Aviador]

Height	Descending	Climbing
1000-2000	Airbus A321 at 1,400ft 69.6dBA
	Boeing B737-400 at 1,400ft 70.7 dBA
	Airbus A320 at 1,400ft 64.9 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 1,400ft 67.7 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 1,400ft (with train noise included in clip for comparison)
2000-3000		Boeing B737-800 at 2,800ft 70.9 dBA
3000-4000	Boeing B734 at 3,300ft 62.1 dBA	Boeing B737-800 at 3,700ft 70.8 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 3,500ft 64.1 dBA	Airbus A319 at 3,800ft 70.2 dBA
	Airbus A320 at 3,700ft 64.7 dBA
	Airbus A321 at 3,700ft 58.1 dBA
	Airbus A319 at 3,800ft 60.3 dBA
4000-5000	Airbus A320 at 4,100ft 59.2 dBA	Airbus A319 at 4,500ft 69.7 dBA
		Airbus A319 at 4,800ft 67.9 dBA
6000-7000	Airbus A321 at 6,000ft 60.2 dBA

Yet nobody bats an eyelid about train noise.

 

[ls27]

If any one is interested the make up of the Planning Committee is
David Blackburn Green Party Farnley and Wortley
Colin Campbell Lib Dem Otley and Yeadon
Peter Carlill Lab Calverley and Farsley
Dan Cohen Cons Alwoodley
Al Garthwaite Lab Headingley and Hyde
Caroline Gruen Lab Bramley and Stanningley
Asghar Khan Lab Burmantofts and Richmond Hill
James McKenna Lab Armley Chairman

 

[White Heather]

Colin Campbell is a member of the Consultative Committee at LBA but always seems to keep his cards close to his chest in terms of whether he is in favour of not. I think we all know which way David Blackburn will vote though!

 

[ls27]

Yes, he was the one I tried to inform about the legality of the 'parking area' by the cemetery. He couldn't understand it.

 

[rmac]

Question: How does it work? Does the Planning Committee decide if they are in favour or not and then recommend that decision to the full Leeds City Council. Or does their decision for or against finalise the matter. Or is there more to it that this, and on what date, if decided does all this come about. Can the airport (AMP) appeal or can the environmentalists appeal if the decision is not to their liking.
Does the Planning Committee recognise the lies and misleading comments that some make and therefore dismisses them. Or do they go by expert analysis and reports. ? Anyone!

 

[LBA787]

Question: How does it work? Does the Planning Committee decide if they are in favour or not and then recommend that decision to the full Leeds City Council. Or does their decision for or against finalise the matter. Or is there more to it that this, and on what date, if decided does all this come about. Can the airport (AMP) appeal or can the environmentalists appeal if the decision is not to their liking.
Does the Planning Committee recognise the lies and misleading comments that some make and therefore dismisses them. Or do they go by expert analysis and reports. ? Anyone!

I would very much like to know the above and also.

Does it require a majority vote or does it have to be 100% if the latter then it’s over... the green will never vote this through!

 

[White Heather]

I think it's a majority vote but not sure if it's the plans panel only or whether they refer it themselves to the full council chamber for something as big as this. Personally I think they should. A lot more Councillors and less likelihood that they could all be influenced by ER.
I think the airport can appeal but equally ER could take it to court if approved and at best cause a delay - as they have threatened to do. I suspect Local Yokel will know as Bristol Airport has just had its expansion plans rejected.

 

[White Heather]

ER are having a 12 our long on line sit in from home on Saturday, entirely aimed at stopping the terminal. They have various speakers including a key figure who opposed Bristol Airport and they are intending to get as much anti airport stuff into LCC as they can. They are showing people how to make anti airport posters and, (wait for it)..... will be having an anti airport quiz. Says it all really.

Sorry but I really hate these people.

 

[rmac]

What a selfish bunch.

 

[lbaspotter]

Posted on here with thanks to Stuart Moss on facebook.

Just received this email from Councillor Barry Anderson:

You will be aware Leeds Bradford Airport have recently submitted an application for a replacement terminal building and operational modifications.

It has become apparent since the submission however, a certain amount of misinformation and misrepresentation of the facts contained in the application has been circulated. In this respect, I attach a fact sheet correcting the statements being made, and outlined below is a press release we issued yesterday.

Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me

Press Release 03/06/20:

· We respect the views of others and have taken great lengths to consult with all interested parties.
· However, we need to be clear here that some of the information you have been sent is factually inaccurate or has been misunderstood and/or taken out of context:
o We have performed an assessment on noise compiled by leading aviation noise experts, which is publicly available on the planning portal and illustrates how noise impact will be minimal
o The claims relating to 26,100 more people and 1 and 50 more planes are misunderstandings of our data on the planning portal and are incorrect.
o LBA already has consent to fly 24 hours and already flies from 06.00. The proposed change to daytime hours is about normalising LBA’s operation to align it with other UK airports, providing improved choice and a level playing field for both business and leisure flights.
o The airport will continue to limit the aircraft that can operating during the night based on the amount of noise they can produce. These limits are more stringent than those which exist at other UK airports.
o It is incorrect that we would be imposing fewer noise restrictions than at Manchester and Heathrow airports. The restrictions that are being proposed are more stringent in terms of the types of aircraft that fly at night, and would seek to set a limit on the total amount of noise at night. Comparable restrictions are not in place at other UK airports, including Manchester and Heathrow airports.
o The aim of the restrictions is to limit the amount of noise that can be produced annually, whilst allowing the airport to grow. In reality, there would be a range of aircraft types operating at the airport. Under the new arrangements, greater limitations are placed on noisier aircraft than quieter aircraft.
o LBA is not seeking to remove flight controls. As part of the development, we are planning on doing more to mitigate noise through changes to operations and the implementation of new noise insulation measures. This includes a noise quota system that applies between 2330-0600, and a noise exposure limit that applies throughout the entire night-time period (2300-0700).
o The point about abolishing the existing cap on the number of noisy flights between 2300 and 0700 is taken out of context. The existing cap is aircraft specific, and does not apply to all aircraft operating at the airport. The proposals are to limit noise in the form of a noise budget, which will apply to all aircraft operating at the airport over an annual period.
o Commercial aircraft arrivals & departures will increase from circa 30,000 per annum to circa 46,000 per annum (not 70,000 as has been reported). This is about meeting the projected demand for 7 million passengers in a more sustainable way.
· We have been clear in our proposals about estimated impact on noise and flight numbers
· The aviation industry as a whole – including airlines - has a target to become carbon net zero by 2050; this has not changed during the COVID-19 pandemic.
· We have worked with a team of aviation noise experts and highly respected specialists to ensure all figures we have submitted and presented are robust and accurate, rooted in evidence-based work (all of which are cited and verified and publicly available), and we strongly urge the public and interested parties to visit the planning portal, where they can read that specialist advice.
· The assessments we have undertaken will be peer reviewed by the Council, their advisors and other statutory bodies, and therefore all parties can be assured of a fair judgment of the noise and other environmental effects.

Statement:
A spokesperson for Leeds Bradford Airport said: “We have been very clear in our proposals about how we will reduce the impact of noise. Not only are aircraft already becoming much quieter with technology and new innovations, but we have also performed a detailed and robust assessment on noise, compiled by leading experts, which is publicly available on Leeds City Council’s planning portal and illustrates how the noise impact will be minimal.

“The public is free to review these evidence-based analyses and their sources via the portal and make a decision on its merits rather than unsubstantiated hearsay.

“We are pleased that many in the business community and general public have submitted their views through the proper judicial process, and we urge the pubic and interested parties to visit the portal and read the facts for themselves.”

The attached fact sheet
View attachment 16711

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

ER are having a 12 our long on line sit in from home on Saturday, entirely aimed at stopping the terminal. They have various speakers including a key figure who opposed Bristol Airport and they are intending to get as much anti airport stuff into LCC as they can. They are showing people how to make anti airport posters and, (wait for it)..... will be having an anti airport quiz. Says it all really.

Sorry but I really hate these people.

I despise them too. They are fund-raising too to stop it. I wish they'd come knocking on my door. I'd give them a piece of my mind. I may turn up Saturday and ask a) why the are promoting fake news about extra flights when there is 0 plans for expansion on stands which is what an airport needs to increase overnight based aircraft therefore more flights, B) what do they propose to do with the nearly 1,000,000 jobs it directly & indirectly and the £66bn it contributes? and C) why not lobby the government/council for a transport system that works around the Leeds City Region rather than fails it?

If Alex Sobel is up there too ... he will get told what i think.

 

[leedslad]

All those laptops burning electric all day...

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

All those laptops burning electric all day...

And their precious iPhones, iPads, iMacs and any other tablet needs charging, their charge doesn't last long, they carry around lithium batteries as charging ports which again needs charging. I've found that they are a bunch of hypocrites.

 

[White Heather]

Just received this email from Councillor Barry Anderson:

You will be aware Leeds Bradford Airport have recently submitted an application for a replacement terminal building and operational modifications.

It has become apparent since the submission however, a certain amount of misinformation and misrepresentation of the facts contained in the application has been circulated. In this respect, I attach a fact sheet correcting the statements being made, and outlined below is a press release we issued yesterday.

Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me



The attached fact sheet
View attachment 16711

That is what was needed. I forwarded documents to LBA showing how facts were being misrepresented by councillors and MPs and clearly by GALBA and ER and they said they were on the case in response. This was much needed and good to see LBA's PR team responding - and Cllr Anderson issuing this. Fortunately, the Council will make their decision based on true facts not a pack of lies and fiction out about by hysterical anti aviation groups.

Can you copy on to the various FB groups LBASpotter to add to your earlier appeal for support?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Question: How does it work? Does the Planning Committee decide if they are in favour or not and then recommend that decision to the full Leeds City Council. Or does their decision for or against finalise the matter. Or is there more to it that this, and on what date, if decided does all this come about. Can the airport (AMP) appeal or can the environmentalists appeal if the decision is not to their liking.
Does the Planning Committee recognise the lies and misleading comments that some make and therefore dismisses them. Or do they go by expert analysis and reports. ? Anyone!

I think it's a majority vote but not sure if it's the plans panel only or whether they refer it themselves to the full council chamber for something as big as this. Personally I think they should. A lot more Councillors and less likelihood that they could all be influenced by ER.
I think the airport can appeal but equally ER could take it to court if approved and at best cause a delay - as they have threatened to do. I suspect Local Yokel will know as Bristol Airport has just had its expansion plans rejected.

It depends on the standing orders of the particular local authority. Usually, as White Heather says, it's a simple majority of the planning committee.

Bristol Airport lies in the area of the small North Somerset unitary authority and because their BRS rejection decision was contrary to the recommendations of the local authority's own professional planning officers their standing orders required the rejection had to be ratified at a subsequent planning committee meeting which it was.

If LCC rejects the LBA application the airport can appeal to the the national Planning Inspectorate where a professional planning inspector would conduct an enquiry which usually features a public enquiry hearing. The planning inspector can make the final decision him/herself or in the case of major applications the matter can be referred to the secretary of state for a final decision along with the planning inspector's recommendations after that officer has conducted an enquiry.

If LCC approves the LBA application objectors always have the option of applying for a judicial review which would be conducted by a judge. A judicial review is a challenge to a decision made by a public body but can only address the lawfulness of the process (ie the way the decision was made), not the rights and wrongs of the decision itself. So if a judge upholds a judicial review challenge the local authority could still come to the same decison again so long as it did so in a lawful way.

I'm not a planning expert but I have read up in connection with BRS planning applications over the past decade purely out of personal curiosity.

 

[752]

LBA have sent another Airport Updates / News e-mail around with of course news of the terminal development and a link to encourage support - hopefully this will have another good response like the first email!

 

[LBA4EVER]

My words for ER would get me banned from forums4airports if I was to post on here, so I will try to remain calm, but im sure many on here have the same feelings for them as I!