American Airlines

[User001]

I'm not sure. It's the same person who keeps adding it after it gets deleted. More chance of seeing flybe do Shanghai on a dash-8 that AA doing MAN-DTW direct.

 

[Jerry]

It's the same person who keeps adding it after it gets deleted.

Who ever he/she is I wish they would stop! Flybe doing long haul now that would be interesting!

 

[Dobbo]

More chance of MAN-DFW...

Which says it all. AA have a lot of work to do in order to protect their European business.

 

[ethanegcc]

I just read a post from the AA 'Birmingham' thread and someone said they aren't too bothered about the AA route being cut due to the inferior product etc. andl especially with MAN, this is how I feel. We still have many airlines with far greater products operating MAN-NY. It will be dissapointing to go from 3 wide bodies this summer on the ground to, on two days of the week, none and most one throughout Jan/Feb but we will be back to the rather pleasing line up of 330/763/788 next May/June. Hopefully they will do better with the 788 on the ORD route. In my opinion, they should roster it on the JFK route.

 

[Dobbo]

Clearly AA are facing some serious issues with their european business, but I don't see how seasonal operations can help the situation.

if the airline and JV wants to maximise its position at MAN, they need to find a way to make the core routes daily and year round if they possibly can.

 

[ethanegcc]

I think that 5 weekly PHL is fine throughout Jan/Feb as long as it maintains 332.

ORD is a route we could aspire to get year round, even if it is 752 Oct-Apr and 788 Apr-Oct. This would be a good development.

It is disappointing that JFK won't operate throughout the winter season, however, there could be some changes on this by the time W17/18 comes about.

Overall, I think we have been extremely successful to keep the routes we have at a relatively good frequency, we still have 3 widebodies on the ground in summer, when more high profile airports such as BRU and ZRH have lost services.

I was reading the raging debate on the Birmingham thread and have to say that there were several comments about their flights 'having no PTVs' in economy and facing competition with UA (who operate to a different airport) who have a better product. I would like to point out that our JFK and ORD 763 services do not have PTVs in Economy and our JFK service is in direct competition with DL/VS, TCX and UA, all who have a better product and AA can still sustain widebody operation, with only a reduction throughout winter. The reason of the AA BHX demise can continue be covered up with the constant 'LHR on our doorstep', 'inferior product' excuse but the fact is that if the route was in so much demand, it would be used and losing a direct link to one of the largest aviation markets is no mean feat.

 

[Dobbo]

I'd like to see AA continue at MAN, but it is going to be hard for them in the face of competition from VS (if that remains year round) and TCX in particular.

There is also UA and via LHR to factor in. It's a difficult equation to get right, and I'm not sure tinkering here and ther around the edges makes a material difference.

As you say, we are fortunate that the strength of the MAN market is such that AA continue to keep their hat in the ring for now.

 

[Land23R]

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38...go-manchester-aircraft-changes-as-of-08nov16/

I suppose it depends whether it's better to have a superior product or, arguably based on this summer's experience, a more reliable service.

Was it ever established whether the problems encountered with the B787 in early summer were primarily technical or delays on the a/c allocated to MAN into ORD from elsewhere?

 

[Dobbo]

I think you would have to say a reliable service.

Some of the delays and cancellations over 2016 were nothing short of ridiculous. In the long run, a new product is necessary but if the B767 is more reliable then that's the way AA much go.

There will probably be some change in this moving forward into 2018 and beyond, but for now it is important for AA to get the service right in 2017 and start to build some confidence in what they are doing otherwise the ORD market could be up for grabs.

 

[Land23R]

Yes, I tend to agree with you - and of course I should have said superior product (787) or more reliable service with the 767. (now amended). I hope that AA use the improved J class version of the 767 with 4 across rather than the older 2-2-2 configuration. (not that I'm likely to use it!). It seemed to vary this summer.

 

[ethanegcc]

I think in general, they use the 1-2-1 as IIRC one of the main reasons they installed it was to provide consistency throughout MAN/LHR services in terms of lie flat seats.

 

[ethanegcc]

I guess this was on one of the days the 788 was actually operating the Manchester-Chicago route:
'More details are emerging of an American flight attendant who showed up to work a Manchester to Chicago flight while being eight times over the legal alcohol limit. Fortunately this was discovered while the crew was doing their pre-flight checks, before the 787 was set to take off for Chicago. Therefore she could be removed from the plane and the flight could continue.'

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2016/12/07/intoxicated-flight-attendant/

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Rather a sympathetic approach from the blog writer. It's a bit like being sorry for a drink driver. Unless someone's drinks were unknowingly 'spiked' (not the case in this incident) I have no sympathy at all for drink drivers; neither do I have any for aircraft crew who are over the limit.

This one was twice the England/Wales limit for drink driving.

The only commendable point is that the flight attendant seems to have fully accepted her folly and is no doubt genuinely sorry.

 

[ethanegcc]

Yes, I completely agree with you and highly commend the Japanese system whereby hardly any alcohol is allowed when driving.

It is, however, more shocking with airline crew and particularly aircraft pilots.

 

[ethanegcc]

As we all know, the AA 788 will not operate the MAN-ORD route next summer, instead the old and drab 763, which is (sometimes) refurbished but only in business class. According to one poster on airliners.net, the only transatlantic 763s from ORD next summer are to CDG and MAN and these 767s will be gone by S18 so perhaps a return to the 788 is on the horizon.

Just as a point to put it in to context, some of these 763s operate (or will do) long-ish routes such as MIA-CDG/MXP and DFW-AMS I think so it is a pretty bad situation and AA's TATL product is ridiculously old fashioned. I honestly do not know how they attract customers - perhaps the ones who don't research the cabins first! I believe that if UA launched MAN-ORD they would knock AA and their product out of the water.

 

[ethanegcc]

It is also a massive deal to get subbed from a 788 to a 763, which is why I suspect many will not have been pleased at all with AA's performance on the ORD route this summer, although you would have been lucky to get on a flight that actually left MAN!

 

[ethanegcc]

View attachment 4282

 

[Dobbo]

I don't know enough about AAs fleet plans to comment, save to say that as a general rule the US3 seem to be a generation behind the rest.

My lazy assumption is that the B788 is likely to replace the B763 on a type basis, but I don't know whether it has been ordered in sufficient quantities to be a like for like replacement.

If VS really commit to the A333 on MAN-JFK, there is good reason to think AA will start to loose passengers. I don't know the ORD market at all, but the staggering lost passengers over the past 10-15 years speaks volumes for the way the route has been handled.

 

[ethanegcc]

'as a general rule the US3 are behind the rest'

Pretty much, although American is decent on 77W/788/789, United's new Polaris product looks great (77W) but the business class on others is subpar, economy is decent on all UA and Delta is probably the most consistent in both classes with direct aisle access and lie-flat seats on all long haul a/c.

'If Virgin commit to the 333 on MAN-JFK'

Why would that make a difference; Delta's 763 product is as good as VS' 333 in business and economy. The only advantage is Premium Economy which American has anyway.

 

[Dobbo]

If VS commit to the A333 on a daily basis throughout the year (accepting there will be the odd day it doesn't run) the consistent quality of a known brand should place it significantly ahead of AA and UA.

I bet it's cheaper too, and can disrupt the market in the same way TCX has and NAX clearly want to.