Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[StanMan]

My take on this is there is no point on holding out for an airline to come to Cardiff on the basis of having a slightly longer runway than Bristol airport, or by hoping passengers will revolt from Bristol because of overcrowding. Cardiff airport needs to find its own way and not rely on the shortcomings of competing airports. While the facilities are underused the airport needs to capitalise on the positives this brings by focusing intensely on customer service. If the airport can then attract a new based operator such as Ryanair they will be able to build up passenger numbers to reach the all important critical mas which in turn will provide more growth opportunities.

Also @Samdorob Welcome to Forums4airports, good to have you with us!

I don't disagree with anything you've said in your response. The context of my post was a little unclear.

All businesses look for opportunities in all forms of business growth. The factors you've identified are typical of organic growth. You're quite right in that CWL has more control and influence over its organic growth opportunities and therefore should do all it can to maximise the potential benefits.

What I was thinking about was what factors may CWL be able to use or benefit from for strategic growth. It seems WG is reluctant to sell or attract an outside investor in the airport (and even if they did, that's no guarantee of success), so I was just suggesting what I thought was the most likely of the other potential strategic growth factors that may occur.

I think just about everyone who posts on this forum wants CWL to be successful. I certainly do - as well as being a reasonably regular passenger, I spent the first 10 years of my working career at the airport (seems a long time ago now, though!

 

[Foxlimayankee]

The runway used to be an advantage but not so much anymore with more advanced aircraft.

I do however agree that CWL needs to capitalise on BRS current misfortunes.
When you look at social media, the rhetoric has changed. People at many points are actually wishing they can fly from CWL, rather than just discounting it. Those that do use CWL always have positive things to say. Many using BRS criticise it's overcrowding.

Many people use BRS on routes that operate from CWL. The perception that CWL is always more expensive than BRS is still there. That is what CWL needs to try and change. I'm sure many of you have seen a Facebook group created by a CWL fan that promotes all the routes, flights and holidays from CWL. That group now has over 36,000 followers and has generated a lot more talk about what's available from CWL. In turn those 36k followers many tag a number of friends and family on posts, further promoting what's available.
In comparison, Cardiff Airports own official long term page has 35,000 followers, so 1k less!

It needs to be stripped back to basics and CWL needs to encourage more people to look at CWL first and then decide based on price/convenience comparison. They need to concentrate on filling the flights currently operated at CWL before considering new Airlines and routes (But that should always be targeted). CWL don't particularly do this very well. Social media is free advertising and it's taken a CWL supporter to create more talk about CWL's routes than CWL has itself.

The concentration on good customer service and seamless journey has been implemented in CWL. It's not perfect but it's much better than it used to. That in turn is what they can focus on and how it's so much nicer to fly from CWL than BRS and other Airports currently. The two go hand in hand.
What they do need to be careful of is that if things do pick up, they can keep up and CWL doesn't become just as chaotic and busy as BRS (in terms of comparable terminal capacity).

 

[Jerry]

The challenge the airport has now, and it may actually be one that can focus it on certain airlines like TUI and Ryanair, is that there's not really any alternative airlines that they can turn too to provide an alternative for people to fly from Cardiff. In the past they've sought out airlines like Flybe and Wizz but those airlines are gone so the focus especially on the low cost side now is on the airlines Bristol has mostly Ryanair. Hopefully them and TUI can grow at Cardiff over the next few years.

 

[Samdorob]

The challenge the airport has now, and it may actually be one that can focus it on certain airlines like TUI and Ryanair, is that there's not really any alternative airlines that they can turn too to provide an alternative for people to fly from Cardiff. In the past they've sought out airlines like Flybe and Wizz but those airlines are gone so the focus especially on the low cost side now is on the airlines Bristol has mostly Ryanair. Hopefully them and TUI can grow at Cardiff over the next few years.

Ryanair and Vueling are the only options on the low cost side in my opinion. Ryanair have the network to be able to offer city break flights which people are more likely to take a few times a year.
Does anyone know or have heard if they’re planning on opening a base at CWL?

 

[Jerry]

Ryanair and Vueling are the only options on the low cost side in my opinion. Ryanair have the network to be able to offer city break flights which people are more likely to take a few times a year.
Does anyone know or have heard if they’re planning on opening a base at CWL?

The problem is with city breaks the amount of destinations that are viable from Cardiff are limited and this poses the challenge for any low cost carrier wanting to base at Cardiff especially in the winter. I think at the moment a low cost carrier base just isn't viable and the airport needs to concentrate on building up it's sun routes using away based aircraft.

 

[Jerry]

Just going to add as well with reference to city routes is that Cardiff and Wales in general doesn't have the tourism profile to help sustain them either.

 

[Aviador]

The problem is with city breaks the amount of destinations that are viable from Cardiff are limited and this poses the challenge for any low cost carrier wanting to base at Cardiff especially in the winter. I think at the moment a low cost carrier base just isn't viable and the airport needs to concentrate on building up it's sun routes using away based aircraft.

Do you think so? A city break only needs a couple of flights a week to make a weekend break possible. They are flexible enough to be able to run flights only two or three times during a season where the market isn't as strong or even to test the market before adding more flights later.

 

[Jerry]

Do you think so? A city break only needs a couple of flights a week to make a weekend break possible. They are flexible enough to be able to run flights only two or three times during a season where the market isn't as strong or even to test the market before adding more flights later

Yes, i think there's only a limited amount of destinations that would work. Barcelona, Milan, Paris and Rome, maybe Krakow, but the problem as well is i also feel they inbound passengers as well to help make them more viable and Cardiff struggles with that. Unfortunately at the moment i think CWL will have to focus on the sun routes for now and maybe once those are built up then maybe a base with a some city routes may be viable.

 

[CWL94]

Getting scheduled services back on Palma and Tenerife should be more a priority

 

[Jerry]

Getting scheduled services back on Palma and Tenerife should be more a priority

I've been told Mallorca is a big priority.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

The focus should be on what routes they know work, which is pretty much sun routes.
The routes Wizz operated seemed to be working - LCA, TFS, ACE, ALC, AGP, PMI, FAO, CFU and HER
LCC routes should be:
AGP and ALC should be minimum 5 weekly, or at best daily.
PMI should be minimum 3-4 weekly or at best daily
FAO should be minimum 3-4 weekly or at best 5-6 weekly
TFS should be minimum 3 weekly
ACE should be minimum 2 weekly
They are all routes that have proven to work in the past. Granted we're talking most were 15 years ago with bmibaby on smaller 737's.
Using PMI as an example, compare 2007 (CWL's peak) to 2019.
2007 - CWL 169781 (56669 scheduled / 113112 charter) // BRS 214027 (96094 scheduled / 117933 charter)
2019 - CWL 107360 (35905 scheduled / 71455 charter) // BRS 363704 (323585 scheduled / 40119 charter)

Total passengers (CWL+BRS combined) flying to PMI:
2007 - 383,808
2019 - 471,064
That's around 22% increase in passengers flying to PMI in 12 years. TUI has held their own on the charter market, carrying nearly double that of charter passengers from BRS in 2019.
If VY were to relaunch PMI at 4x weekly that would generate around 41k seats over the summer period or 3 weekly around 31k seats.


CFU, HER and LCA don't appear to be FR bases so would need a W pattern in some form or a CWL based airline.

 

[CWL94]

FR do have a base at CFU. They operate a weekly service to MME. One for CWL to look at considering it’s not offered by FR at BRS

 

[Aviador]

Backing up my previous post after looking at the airport website yesterday it would seem they are already pushing city breaks from the airport. Some may see this as not being a priority but flights like these will be a good indicator as to whether these routes can be made into a more permanent operation.They will also provide the airport with valuable real data to feed back to airlines. To use my local airport as an example a number of short breaks were operated to places like Reykjavík and Rome. More permanent flights now operate to these destinations.

 

[Jerry]

This is what Summer 2024 for Cardiff Airport looks like at the moment
94 weekly departures, 26 destinations, 3 based aircraft, 1 overnighting aircraft.
TUI
Palma de Mallorca 6 weekly
Tenerife 3 weekly
Dalaman 3 weekly
Antalya 3 weekly
Ibiza 2 weekly
Lanzarote 2 weekly
Bourgas 2 weekly
Alicante 2 weekly
Malaga 2 weekly
Larnaca 2 weekly
Paphos 2 weekly
Kos 2 weekly
Rhodes 2 weekly
Corfu 2 weekly
Menorca 2 weekly
Zante 2 weekly
Enfidha 2 weekly
Dubrovnik 1 weekly
Heraklion 1 weekly
Gran Canaria 1 weekly
Kefalonia 1 weekly
Reus 1 weekly
KLM
Amsterdam 20 weekly
Loganair
Edinburgh 6 weekly
Aer Lingus
Belfast City 7 weekly
Ryanair
Dublin 6 weekly
Malaga 3 weekly
Faro TBC
Vueling
Alicante 3 weekly
Malaga 2 weekly
BH Air
Bourgas 1 weekly

 

[Samdorob]

This is what Summer 2024 for Cardiff Airport looks like at the moment
94 weekly departures, 26 destinations, 3 based aircraft, 1 overnighting aircraft.
TUI
Palma de Mallorca 6 weekly
Tenerife 3 weekly
Dalaman 3 weekly
Antalya 3 weekly
Ibiza 2 weekly
Lanzarote 2 weekly
Bourgas 2 weekly
Alicante 2 weekly
Malaga 2 weekly
Larnaca 2 weekly
Paphos 2 weekly
Kos 2 weekly
Rhodes 2 weekly
Corfu 2 weekly
Menorca 2 weekly
Zante 2 weekly
Enfidha 2 weekly
Dubrovnik 1 weekly
Heraklion 1 weekly
Gran Canaria 1 weekly
Kefalonia 1 weekly
Reus 1 weekly
KLM
Amsterdam 20 weekly
Loganair
Edinburgh 6 weekly
Aer Lingus
Belfast City 7 weekly
Ryanair
Dublin 6 weekly
Malaga 3 weekly
Faro TBC
Vueling
Alicante 3 weekly
Malaga 2 weekly
BH Air
Bourgas 1 weekly

I see Vueling have loaded Malaga for S24 - at long last. Along with TUI and FR that means 3 flights on a Wednesday. 1 on a Monday and Sunday and 2 on a Saturday. Decent coverage throughout the week, although may have worked out better if Vueling flew a Thursday or Friday instead.

Looking at your list it would be great to see Ryanair pick up TFS at twice weekly (fingers crossed) and Vueling pick up PMI again.

 

[Jerry]

Looking at your list it would be great to see Ryanair pick up TFS at twice weekly (fingers crossed) and Vueling pick up PMI again

LCC airlines for Tenerife and Mallorca are desperately needed and personally I'd like to see Ryanair add Alicante. 3 weekly just isn't enough for a route like that.

 

[Aviador]

This is what Summer 2024 for Cardiff Airport looks like at the moment
94 weekly departures, 26 destinations, 3 based aircraft, 1 overnighting aircraft.
TUI
Palma de Mallorca 6 weekly
Tenerife 3 weekly
Dalaman 3 weekly
Antalya 3 weekly
Ibiza 2 weekly
Lanzarote 2 weekly
Bourgas 2 weekly
Alicante 2 weekly
Malaga 2 weekly
Larnaca 2 weekly
Paphos 2 weekly
Kos 2 weekly
Rhodes 2 weekly
Corfu 2 weekly
Menorca 2 weekly
Zante 2 weekly
Enfidha 2 weekly
Dubrovnik 1 weekly
Heraklion 1 weekly
Gran Canaria 1 weekly
Kefalonia 1 weekly
Reus 1 weekly
KLM
Amsterdam 20 weekly
Loganair
Edinburgh 6 weekly
Aer Lingus
Belfast City 7 weekly
Ryanair
Dublin 6 weekly
Malaga 3 weekly
Faro TBC
Vueling
Alicante 3 weekly
Malaga 2 weekly
BH Air
Bourgas 1 weekly

Flights on domestic routes like Belfast and Edinburgh are weak with no day return offering on what are essentially business flights. Dublin is the same with Ryanair only offering 6 x weekly service so no day return offering. What I would normally take from this is there isn't the scope to offer more services, but then you have 20 flights a week to Amsterdam which surely tells a different story? This isn't because KLM doesn't offer flights from neighbouring Bristol.

 

[Jerry]

Flights on domestic routes like Belfast and Edinburgh are weak with no day return offering on what are essentially business flights. Dublin is the same with Ryanair only offering 6 x weekly service so no day return offering. What I would normally take from this is there isn't the scope to offer more services, but then you have 20 flights a week to Amsterdam which surely tells a different story? This isn't because KLM doesn't offer flights from neighbouring Bristol.

I think these routes are now essentially leisure routes.
With Ryanair I think we need to remember the size of the aircraft. Hopefully they might look to build the frequency up over time.
Belfast City I think it's a case of trying to build the route up and add more frequency over time.
Edinburgh I wonder if the challenge may well be Loganair and persuading them to add more frequency and if they have the aircraft they can deploy. I also wonder how well known they are among the Welsh population in general. They'll be known to the Scots but have less of a presence among Welsh passengers.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I always go back to the stats to see what has the potential to work or not.
Under Flybe CWL-BHD carried the following:
2010 - 41.5k (Daily) (EZY BRS - 150k)
2015 - 41.8k (Daily - E95?) (EZY BRS - 246k)
2019 - 62.2k (Unsure of frequency and aircraft type) (EZY BRS - 279k)
2022 - 14k (EI started Jul 22) (EZY BRS 250k)
2023 (Up to August) - BHD - 18.7k // BFS 8.5K - Total 27.2K so far

Annual seats offered by daily ATR is approx 52.5K.
If you estimate an average of 3000 passengers per month for Sep - Dec then thats just under 40k.
Hopefully we'll see EI do what BE did and add double daily and peak days like Monday and Friday to further boost capacity and demand and reach those 2019 figures.

 

[Nuffsaid]

There is an interesting post on the dried plum forum re:CWL Is any of this true about CWL? It appears harsh.