Leeds Bradford: Airport Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Aviador]

It seems the airport is looking at providing a new 1 hour free parking area at the bottom of short-stay 2 as part of it's planning consent for the terminal extension. It would seem this has to be implemented prior to December this year even if the terminal extension isn't built for three years.

http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/mgConvert ... x?ID=67995

 

[lbaspotter]

It seems the airport is looking at providing a new 1 hour free parking area at the bottom of short-stay 2 as part of it's planning consent for the terminal extension. It would seem this has to be implemented prior to December this year even if the terminal extension isn't built for three years.

http://democracy.Leeds.gov.uk/mgConvert ... x?ID=67995

And this is how the Good old Yorkshire Evening Post reported it. For once its not just a one sided argument.

Source: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....or-leeds-bradford-airport-taxi-rank-1-4625791

No-go to plans for Leeds Bradford Airport taxi rank

Taxi drivers want a rank on Whitehouse Lane

By David Marsh
Published on Friday 8 June 2012 10:27

Airport bosses are continuing to resist calls for a taxi rank to be laid out on the forecourt of Leeds-Bradford Airport.

And the issue will be discussed next week by councillors when they meet to discuss the airport’s proposed forecourt management plan, which does not include a rank.

The aim of the plan is to ensure the free flow of traffic to and from the airport.

It has to be approved by the council as a condition of a planning consent for a two-storey extension to the airport terminal, on which work has yet to start.

Members of the council’s east plans panel are to visit the airport before they make a decision on the traffic management plan at their meeting on Thursday.

A report to the panel says that in talks with airport bosses over some months, highways and planning officers have “requested the airport strongly” to consider providing a forecourt taxi rank but the airport has rejected those calls.

The provision of a rank has proved a contentious issue.

The airport has a contract with a private hire company and taxis are not allowed to “rank up” outside the airport.

It prompted a call from taxi operators for the council to create a rank on Whitehouse Lane, the main approach to the airport, but senior councillors rejected the scheme as too expensive.

There was further controversy last year when the airport introduced a £2 charge for motorists, allowing them to park on the forecourt for up to 30 minutes to pick-up and drop-off passengers.

Many motorists opted to avoid the charge by picking up and dropping off in Whitehouse Lane, causing traffic congestion in the area.

[hi-lighty:nnq7uope]Now the airport is proposing to help overcome the problem by creating a new designated drop-off facility in the long-stay car park.

It will have up to 50 spaces and provide one hour of free parking.[/hi-lighty:nnq7uope]

The report to be considered by the panel says the airport has pointed out the designated area would be “in sight of and within comfortable walking distance” of the terminal and a shuttle bus could be used.

 

[Aviador]

It says it's in the Long Stay car park but it's actually in Short Stay 2 opposite the Travelodge according to the plan in the council document.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Sounds like a climbdown of sorts to me. The charge is deeply unpopular and causes real traffic issues. It looks as though LBA are being forced to deal with this situation in return for their plans being approved. Whilst I would not blame a private enterprise for trying to make money, I would suggest that when that money making scheme begins to impact on the general public in the way that it has (people parking on roads funded through the Tax I pay on my vehicle causing an obstruction on said road and traffic wardens employed to patrol the area paid for partly through my council tax contribution) then the council are correct to do something about it. I appreciate that there will be people who wil see this as needless interfering and blocking expansion of legitimate business but the wider impact has to be recognised.

I would go further to suggest that the charge damages the reputation of the airport and could even be seen to be further damaging to the domestic route network, which is rapidly diminishing at LBA. Every extra cost compared to the competition (private car, train, coach) is going to decrease the popularity of domestic flight.

With regards Hackney Carriages, would it be possible or tenable to charge Hackney Carriages an amount of money each time they enter the airport grounds to pick up? It would potentially put enough of them off to ensure that Arrow remain the vastly superior service but also earn the airport extra cash.

 

[wawkrk]

I still cannot undertsand why all the fuss over 2 quid.

 

[Aviador]

I still cannot undertsand why all the fuss over 2 quid.

Yes, it's funny watching folk get soaking wet in the rain rather than paying the £2.00 to pick-up and drop-off outside the terminal.

 

[SNOWMAN]

I still cannot undertsand why all the fuss over 2 quid.

Yes, it's funny watching folk get soaking wet in the rain rather than paying the £2.00 to pick-up and drop-off outside the terminal.

we have just returned from 6 weeks in spain (out & back with jet2) i have no problem paying then £2.00 for 30 mins charge,if i could not afford the charge i would not be going on holiday.

 

[Aviador]

That's just it. It's no hardship after you've already forked out on your holiday. It would be better though it the airlines would just accept the charge and add the £2.00 onto their bookings but airlines like Ryanair would be completely against doing that.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

If air fares were £1 extra each way (with no parking charge) people wouldn't say a word probably believing in many cases that it was still good value, yet a couple of quid to park is the end of the world for some.

 

[lbaspotter]

That's just it. It's no hardship after you've already forked out on your holiday. It would be better though it the airlines would just accept the charge and add the £2.00 onto their bookings but airlines like Ryanair would be completely against doing that.

So in that case Aviador if the airlines added the tax to air fares why should anyone who uses the local bus service have to folk out the extra £2 when they don't have to pay for the drop off/pick up fee as it stands. Actually it would an extra £4 for a return flight on top of you return Bus fares. Where is the fairness in that?

The best thing to do is either keep things as they are (Charge the £2 pick up and drop off free and also allow free parking in the long stay car parks for up to 1 hour and the use of the free shuttle bus to the terminal building)
Or they could go for option 2 which is what the airport have suggested to the council so to offer another 50 free parking spaces/pick up drop off point in the long stay car park which will be a little near to the terminal building.

 

[Aviador]

Lbaspitter the bus services are subsidised by the airport so that argument works both ways, why should I pay to subsidise the buses? I rest my case.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

[leedslad]

For me it's a matter of principal. If we're going to have to pay 2x£2 to be get out of the car near the airport, why not £2 to enter the terminal building, £2 to check-in, £2 to get though security, £2 for access to the departure lounge, £2 to exit departures etc etc.

Very slowly this "incremental pricing" is creeping into everything - you've already paid your airfair, and in return the airline has paid a sum to the airport. It just smacks of opportunism. Supermarkets don't charge to park in (most of) their carparks, because they know what would happen if they did, but with little competition between airports then there's no choice.

I'd be less bothered about paying for it, if there was a more viable public transport (rail link) option, but until then you just have to pay up. And their "free drop off" is so much further to drive and walk etc they know that it is unattractive.

 

[leedslad]

Also in the report to be discussed by the Development Panel at the council, it has this line:

The planning
approval is conditioned to be implemented within 3 years of the date of decision –
i.e. by 14th December 2012. All of the conditions which need to be discharged
before work starts on the extension ( pre commencement conditions) have been
discharged apart from Condition 14 relating to the Forecourt Management Plan
(FMP).

Does this mean that construction has to commence this year? Or does it mean all of the conditions have to be met by the end of this year, regardless of whether construction commences or not?...

Further I don't really see why this plan is a condition - it doesn't allow for the new construction, and in fact plans for some parking on the footprint of what would be the new building... I would have expected any plan to be in place allowing for the new building?...

 

[Aviador]

Condition 14 needs to be met by the end of the year, building can wait three years.

As for your comments re the two pound charge. I can understand what you say but the matter has been brought about by airlines insisting airports offer reduced charges. In the meantime Air Traffic controllers, Firemen, Security and energy bills still need to be paid. The only way this can be done is through add on charges. The majority of people realise it is still cheaper to fly abroad for their holiday than staying here in the UK even if they do have to pay £2 to be picked up.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

[User0001]

Condition 14 needs to be met by the end of the year, building can wait three years.


Incorrect. If a spade has not hit the ground by Dec 2012 new planning permission will have to be sort.

 

[wawkrk]

Sorry,I still cannot understand the fuss about 2 quid. You cannot even buy a pint of beer for that.The airport is a business that has to make money,it's not a charity.In order for us to have cheap fares, what is wrong with a small charge that could make the difference between making a profit or not making a profit.The airport makes very little on landing fees etc.All those that don't like it can always drive to Manchester.

 

[dmrodgers]

Sorry,I still cannot understand the fuss about 2 quid. You cannot even buy a pint of beer for that.The airport is a business that has to make money,it's not a charity.In order for us to have cheap fares, what is wrong with a small charge that could make the difference between making a profit or not making a profit.The airport makes very little on landing fees etc.All those that don't like it can always drive to Manchester.

And pay £2.50 for the privedge of picking someone up!!!!!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I don't understand the fuss that some people make about such things as drop-off car park charges at airports.

In the old days airlines paid significant fees to airports to use their facilities. In return the fares were much higher and most regional airports had few flights - compared to nowadays.

Airports have to get their income from somewhere so to make up for the much lower receipts from airlines they look to ancillary revenue streams such as retail outlet sales, car parking, luggage trolley charges, fast-track security and others things.

Would people prefer not to have the drop-off charge and 'enjoy' the much higher fares and far fewer flights of yesteryear?

I can speak at first hand of Bristol Airport which has much in common with LBA.

25 years ago BRS had very few scheduled flights and the once or twice a day to Scotland were well over £100 return which is probably over £300 in today's prices.

These days I can get to Scotland and back for £60-£70 and have several flights a day to choose from. I don't use the BRS drop-off car park (£1 for 20 minutes) because I access the airport by other means but I certainly would not begrudge paying the charge. It's a small price to pay for having such a network at low fares (compared with days gone by).

Scotland routes are but one example.

If people really object to paying the drop-off charges on principle then travel to the airport by other means.

Perhaps an airport passenger charge would be fairer as it would apply to everyone. Ideally it would be added to the ticket price but Ryanair for one wouldn't go for that with their lowest fare boast - often not the lowest when the add-ons are factored in.

Vancouver Airport's 'improvement fee' (paid by every passenger except on local routes) has gone up to £20 Canadian dollars per passenger.

I remember paying this 'improvement' fee at Vancouver in the early 1990s. Then it was paid at the airport on departure - now it's included in the air ticket price.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... rease.html

 

[White Heather]

Exactly. If you don't want to pay £2 to go in LBA's coffers (to help the airport develop), go on the bus and pay a lot more than £2 that will go into the bus companies coffers and do nothing to help develop LBA. Have fun carting the luggage around too.

The airport costs £29m a year to run and makes less than half of that from the airlines. There are loads of things that have to be paid for 'behind the scenes' - for example the airport is having to pay to upgrade the water run off to ensure there is no environmental damage from the use of de-icing fluid, spilled fuel etc. The airport has to make money to survive and the chief source of money is car parking. The expected income from parking has diminished due to off airport parking companies (who were previously trading without planning consent) winning an appeal against the council's refusal to grant planning consent. That decision certainly had an impact on the decision to charge £2 as the loss of income had to be made up.

I find it amusing that people will pay significant sums to fly yet complain bitterly about paying £2 to be dropped off at the door. To compare with a supermarket is pointless. They don't charge because they don't need to. They make a fortune without doing so. Most airports are now charging anyway and anyone who says they will travel to other airports rather than pay the £2, go on then! They will probably still pay a charge, plus at least £20 in fuel costs.

 

[leedslad]

I agree the airport has to make money, but I still go back to my point above. Why not make EVERYTHING an addiotional charge - the airport would make loads of money then... We don't pay to go through security, or to sit in departures (but give don't tell Ryanair this!), because this is an expected service included in your air ticket. Many people see the right to drop someone off (usually literally a 2 minute stop off for many) as a 'service' that should be included in the ticket.

It already often costs more to fly from Leeds airport than others, so adding in these extra charges just makes it even worse when trying to support your local airport.

Finally - it may be £2 now (effectively £4), but given a couple of years it could be upto £5 (effectively £10) - by which time it might as well be an "airport improvement tax"?...

I for one don't object to paying if someone is going to park up and come inside for 15 mins to wave me off. But if I am getting dropped at the door to pick a bag out of the car boot, then the charge I do object to. Bring back 10 minutes free!

I guess it is the same argument for Ryanair ticket pricing. You pay the airfair, but then ridiculously have to pay to check-in online too. People object to this as it feels like a hidden cost - why not include the cost in the price of the published airfair...

Don't think I'll change anyones mind, but this is the thinking behind many peoples objections, rather than the actual cost of the thing.