Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Tarn Spotter]

"Doctors against diesal" campaign launched in London this week end highlighted Leeds as a city where either a ban or a charge for bringing a diesal car in to the centre could be in place by 2018 as the legal powers now in place for the local council.
Whereas a total ban on diesal cars unlikely, Leeds will be in the forefront of curbing diesal car uses, park and Ride schemes, using bus or rail will have to be brought in at the same time as ban/charges.

 

[leedslad]

But since when Heather do councils fund new rail lines? The govt was funding the trolley bus, surely the council would have to lobby govt to build a new branch line? where would Leeds council get funds to build such a line in future (note they have the funds now as a once in a lifetime chance).

Also it might be a quick fix, but it will be a £20m quick fix that ultimately will need demolishing if a branch line is built? Also likely is the business case will be ruined for a direct link because they'll state the parkway is sufficient and there's other priorities...

So a £70m branch now becomes a £70m plus £20m quick fix...

 

[White Heather]

But since when Heather do councils fund new rail lines? The govt was funding the trolley bus, surely the council would have to lobby govt to build a new branch line? where would Leeds council get funds to build such a line in future (note they have the funds now as a once in a lifetime chance).

Also it might be a quick fix, but it will be a £20m quick fix that ultimately will need demolishing if a branch line is built? Also likely is the business case will be ruined for a direct link because they'll state the parkway is sufficient and there's other priorities...

So a £70m branch now becomes a £70m plus £20m quick fix...

Why on Earth would it be demolished?? It is going to be a park and ride station, permanently. Even if the tram train to LBA is built, the park and ride will remain and will in itself justify the building of the station. And it would not be just Leeds City Council that would fund it - what about the West Yorkshire Transport Authority? What about the funds that the entire area will get when we finally get control of our own transport spend (we need an elected Mayor first but it will come). It will be a joint venture, not just Leeds City Council.

As for the business case, Leeds needs a modern transit system and the loop between Horsforth and Guiseley via the airport and quite possibly Yeadon will just be a part of a system operating around the city. A tram train isn't just going to be built in isolation to service LBA from Leeds. It will be part of a new generation transport system. Whether it happens or not in the future is dependent on a great deal more than whether this parkway station is built.

 

[rmac]

I could not agree more White Heather! West Yorkshire needs an integrated transport policy and the P&R schemes are part of it designed to reduce car usage into city centres and to some extent airports. Sorry to harp on about Edinburgh but in the Scottish News tonight the BBC reported the opening of the Edinburgh Gateway Railway Station costing £41m. (Allows train users to change onto the tram for the last 2 miles to the airport in comfort, undercover and using escalators and lifts as needed. !! no standing out in a bus shelter!) The reporter explained that all this was part of the project for a more "integrated transport system" in Scotland allowing travellers the freedom of being able to use various means of transport, ie tram to train all on one ticket to easily get from one place to another, saving time and money. Of course he said that Scotland was far behind London in doing all this but it would seem to me that Scotland is ahead of the game compared to Yorkshire!

 

[leedslad]

But Heather surely if the parkway is going to be so conveniently close to the terminal then a second platform outside the terminal won't be justifiable because it would be suitable because it would be such a short distance? That seems to contradict many of the points above?

And why when no direct link has been built up to now would it become any more likely once a Parkway was site just a mile from the airport? The business case would be decimated by the existence of the parkway.

Finally a Leeds region metro system is indeed needed to cover the whole city, but it will almost certainly start with just one line being built. The best candidate is surely the Harrogate line which can alleviate Headingley, the airport and is relatively stand alone in rail traffic terms... Therefore surely a first leg of any system may well be a standalone airport link?

 

[yorkguy]

Extremely upbeat report in today's Yorkshire Post with the CEO of DSA talking about £150m rail link to the ECML and potential for 25m passengers annually. No doubt this will be dismissed by some as pie in the sky, but at least it demonstrates a vision sadly lacking at LBA with the plans for two platforms on the Harrogate line a bus ride away from the terminal. DSA is also talking about a 90 min train journey from Kings X. LBA could never obviously compete with that but they really do need to lift their sights before another serious rival for passengers grows on the doorstep

 

[leedslad]

I used DSA for the first time this year and was mightily impressed I have to say. Throw in a direct rail connection and it suddenly becomes a lot more accessible...

As mentioned above, great to see a Yorkshire airport with some ambition and vision...

 

[airforced]

I must admit that when I read that Finningley was to be developed into a commercial airport I had high hopes for it. Unfortunately it stuttered into life and the loss of Ryan and Easy didn't help at all. But if we are to believe all the PR flying about at the moment in relation to a railway station on the East Coast main line that facility would probably be the catalyst for major growth there. I imagine that it would also mean serious passenger leakage from LBA which should get Bidgepoint thinking and planning.

I have only used DSA once in the early days and agree with leedslad in terms of it being a pleasant experience. A main line station would be a major boost there. I shall watch that space for developments - should they occur!

 

[lbaspotter]

Yeah lets hope Bridgepoint Capital PLC have the decency to close Leeds/Bradford and sell out to Peel holdings. Then it i'll just be a matter of getting the Airlines, based operators and passengers to move everything to over to Doncaster/Sheffield. (I'm sure they can find room for Jet2 Operations)
They could also reuse the runway 32 CAT3 ILS by installing it onto the Runway 02 end, that way they would have CAT3 available on both ends of as Runway 20 already has it installed. So no more diversions to Manchester or Humberside..
Then the'll be no need for this needless Church Fenton talk, We can stop wasting tax payers money on tendered bus services (737, 747, 967 and off peak 757), No need to develop either a park & ride rail station on the Horsforth line or build the A65/A658 link road seen as Peel Group have lots of private money to play about with, which they tend to spend.
Really good thing about this plan, the road traffic situation on the A65/A658 might improve as well. That way I'm sure everyone will be happy including the local residents, Leeds City Council.

Doncaster-Sheffield Airport is the Future! "The No1 international airport for Yorkshire and the this side of the Pennines"

 

[Aviador]

Leedslad

The estimated building cost of the parkway is in the region of £8m not £20m you quoted.

Just supposing Leeds City Council changed their mind on the matter and decided to plough £80m into building a direct rail link to the airport terminal stopping outside the building, what then for any future expansion or relocation of the terminal? Let's face it, the terminal building is tired and will eventually need replacing at some point in the future?

 

[Seasider]

Great discussion everyone, keep it up. I feel that as I live on the coast I will leave it up to the "locals" to discuss.

 

[Bigman]

I agree lbaspotter. Just think of all the reduced traffic around Yeadon!!!!

I see that the issue of HS2 hasn't been brought into play here as far as DSA is concerned...ie they aren't due to get it!!!

 

[SNOWMAN]

lbaspotter
can i have a pint of whatever your drinking,second thoughts it may be too strong for me if it gives you night mares like that.
regards
sm1
all the best for christmas and the new year hic is it big mans round?
T

 

[Bigman]

If you get yourself up to the Albert tomorrow night it might be!!

 

[leedslad]

Leedslad

The estimated building cost of the parkway is in the region of £8m not £20m you quoted.

Just supposing Leeds City Council changed their mind on the matter and decided to plough £80m into building a direct rail link to the airport terminal stopping outside the building, what then for any future expansion or relocation of the terminal? Let's face it, the terminal building is tired and will eventually need replacing at some point in the future?

I'd not seen any estimated cost for the Parkway as yet? I'd based £20m on the most recently constructed new stations PLUS park and ride car park PLUS access road PLUS extra cost for being hard to access... just my guess though...

And of course if a terminal station were built it would be planned as part of the Masterplan so as not to conflict with future expansion...

 

[Aviador]

The £8m price tag I have used is based on the price of Apperley Bridge Railway Station with parking and lead in road with bus turning circle.

...and here's just a reminder of what that money will buy.









Finally Leedslad,

Even though this isn't what we had all originally wanted, I think the airport will do it's best to advertise the rail access and provide the best possible transfer service to the airport terminal. It is in the airport's interest to make it a success to ensure the viability of a future rail spur to the terminal. The airport will no doubt use the new access point as a selling point to new airlines looking to service LBA.

 

[lbaspotter]

I'd not seen any estimated cost for the Parkway as yet? I'd based £20m on the most recently constructed new stations PLUS park and ride car park PLUS access road PLUS extra cost for being hard to access... just my guess though...

And of course if a terminal station were built it would be planned as part of the Masterplan so as not to conflict with future expansion...

Won't need to do anything "Leedslad". Just close LBA and do what everyone from the Yorkshire Post says and move it all to DSA.

Tell youwhat "Snowman" and "Bigman" I'm not drinking much at the min, especilly what with the daft hours am currently working. On way to work now and actually typing this message whilst sat on the First Leeds no9 ringroad bus, this service is enough to give me nightmares!

Have a drink on me and merry Christmas to both you and everyone else on here..

 

[Aviador]

On way to work now and actually typing this message whilst sat on the no9 ringroad bus, this service is enough to give me nightmares.

One thing for sure is Leeds transport woes will keep this thread ticking over for decades to come.

...and yes, merry christmas Bigman and Snowman.

oh, and everybody else!

 

[Aviador]

PS. LBAspotter, you are so funny when you're ranting.

 

[leedslad]

I'd imagine the £8m plus extra parking size for Park and Ride plus access difficulties will push the cost well north of £8m? Anyway guess we shall see...

Meanwhile you echo my point well... this isn't really the solution anybody wanted, but the mad thing is we have the once in a generation funding opportunity to get exactly what we want...

I see the Park and Ride train benefit, I just wouldn't use a Parkway and I live in the Leeds suburbs and am a tight Yorkshireman. Therefore I see a lot of others won't be inclined to use it either.