Bristol Airport - General Thread

[superking]

On 1 of the rv programes they did a series on lhr. I think it was security that was doing speed checks with the apron staff. I cant quite remember the full article,but I'm sure who ever was driving the speeding vehicle they were banned for a time driving vehicles on airport roads. Also I cant remember if they were finned or not.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The new master plan

It has been announced recently that the airport is to consult with local interests and partners later this year as it looks to update its master plan that was published in 2006. The local news media has suggested that the eventual target will be 15 mppa and I've even heard 20 mppa mentioned but, given the constricted site, it's difficult to see how that many passengers could be squeezed in.

From the remarks of the airport CEO in an aviation magazine this month, there seems to be no intention to extend the runway and the CEO also said that all future commercial development would remain on the north side which is a change from the existing master plan's consideration of a second terminal (with associated taxiway) on the south side. This must surely mean more extensions to the current terminal building in the future.

BRS has seemed in a state of continual physical development for the past 20 years, with a noticeable acceleration in recent years with £160 million expended since 2010 on various enhancements.

The first obstacle to be overcome in order to to get beyond 10 mppa is the removal of that passenger limit currently set by its planning consents. Given the importance of the airport to the local economy I don't foresee too many difficulties although no doubt the usual suspects will be extremely vocal in their opposition.

More parking space for aircraft is another obvious necessity if passenger numbers are to continue to increase significantly. Outline planning permission is in place (so far as I know) for the demolition of the old terminal and the construction of new stands with a connecting walkway in its place. A new admin block would have to built though.

Perhaps of more immediate interest is the question of how the airport will continue to grow its passenger numbers next year and the year after. 2018 sees an expansion of Thomas Cook and TUI services and easyJet may well base a 15th aircraft, which would continue the practice at BRS since the five-year agreement was signed and which has led to an additional based aircraft both last summer and this summer.

Rumours still circulate about Jet2 and (perhaps less so) about Monarch. There are also rumours about Jet2 and CWL and, after the Qatar decision, they cannot be dismissed easily.

Without going into a discussion about BRS or CWL vis-a-vis Jet2 let us take for the purpose of debate a Jet2 based presence at BRS (with the assumption that space could be found for them). For starters, would the airport be falling over backwards to attract them? The CEO commented to the aviation magazine that the airport's preference is to 'work very hard with our existing customers and only add airlines when it makes sense'. The airport only adds capacity where there is a 'demonstrable need and demand' which, he said, 'works much better than overlaying additional capacity on top of existing capacity'.

So the obvious question is, would a Jet2 (or Monarch) base be meeting that demonstrable need and demand or would it dilute easyJet, Ryanair, TUI and Thomas Cook to an unacceptable degree to those airlines? Can BRS continue to expand its route portfolio and passenger numbers relying mainly on its existing principal airline partners?

 

[Marko1]

With regard to the question of a third based low cost carrier it certainly would bring extra capacity to certain routes plus would also bring fares down. The question of working with existing carriers could also have applied when Ryanair started competing with easyJet on the sun routes . Personally a third carrier would bring much needed choice noticeably on routes to the eastern med where easyJet and Ryanair seem to have largely ignored.



Conversely we also need to consider British airways in the mix providing leisure routes where perhaps passengers would rather have a "national airline" rather than a low cost model. The airport certainly didn't put ba off from flying to Florence did they ?

As for thomson and Thomas cook their coverage on routes to Spain and Portugal for example is actually quite low so I cannot imagine too much effect on them. Neither have really expanded their flights to those destinations focussing instead on Greece etc

 

[737 400]

At the risk of sounding radical, back a few years ago wasn't there a plan to combine the operations of both BRS and CWL with a new airport north of Bristol adjacent to the M5 and the Bristol to Birmingham main line?

Considering the 'Green Belt' effect, transport access and other current planning constraints surrounding BRS, this could make long-term sense, plus there would be the potential to attract custom from the West Midlands. The downsides are building cost and how well a replacement airport for CWL would be received by the Welsh Assembly.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

At the risk of sounding radical, back a few years ago wasn't there a plan to combine the operations of both BRS and CWL with a new airport north of Bristol adjacent to the M5 and the Bristol to Birmingham main line?

Considering the 'Green Belt' effect, transport access and other current planning constraints surrounding BRS, this could make long-term sense, plus there would be the potential to attract custom from the West Midlands. The downsides are building cost and how well a replacement airport for CWL would be received by the Welsh Assembly.

In the Labour Government's white paper of 2003 The Future of Air Transport which set out a framework for the development of UK air transport over the next 30 years from that point, the suggestion of a new airport north of Bristol (in the Pilning area from memory) was not supported by the DfT. The white paper did support a runway extension at BRS though. The white paper also led to the master plans that airports produced within a couple of years.

Over the past 30 years proposals have also regularly surfaced for a new airport on the Welsh side of the Severn estuary to replace both BRS and CWL. Various locations have been propounded down the years. None of the suggestions have ever found favour with the Westminster government of the time.

 

[superking]

The row of buildings between airport and downside road be a good idea to purchess when they come up for sale. On a nother matter I see the apron extension is right up by the farm house. Now I thought a few years back the airport bought the farm house and the land round it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

With regard to the question of a third based low cost carrier it certainly would bring extra capacity to certain routes plus would also bring fares down. The question of working with existing carriers could also have applied when Ryanair started competing with easyJet on the sun routes . Personally a third carrier would bring much needed choice noticeably on routes to the eastern med where easyJet and Ryanair seem to have largely ignored.



Conversely we also need to consider British airways in the mix providing leisure routes where perhaps passengers would rather have a "national airline" rather than a low cost model. The airport certainly didn't put ba off from flying to Florence did they ?

As for thomson and Thomas cook their coverage on routes to Spain and Portugal for example is actually quite low so I cannot imagine too much effect on them. Neither have really expanded their flights to those destinations focussing instead on Greece etc

You are quite right about a third lo-co bringing more choice and more competition, but the scale has to be such that existing carriers don't feel the need to cut back, especially with TUI, TCX and probably easyJet further expanding in 2018.

Having said this, if BRS is to continue to grow, especially on the scale in the future that some recent reports have suggested, this would be the sort of thing that will need to happen and go on happening.

 

[Marko1]

The one point to note with regard to easyJet expansion is that they seem to be expanding frequencies more rather than adding new destinations. Plus Ryanair seems to have reached a point of no significant expansion. A third carrier may be needed to jerk them both into life . This year for example both have only launched two new destinations each with easyJet's both already served by other carriers . That also suggests that demand is there for more choice and frequency on routes that previously would not have demanded it - pula and kefalonia are two in point. I believe easyJet will continue to expand primarily by adding frequencies and perhaps two or three new destinations a year and Ryanair will tinker with what they already got

 

[Jerry]

Problem for any new loco at BRS is that they will face fierce competition from Easyjet and Ryanair. That might make a smaller airline more reluctant to setup at BRS and if they did setup there not expand as much as they would like or even stick around for the long term.
A holiday airline might have more success though but it would probably be at the expense of the established 2 there already. Could BRS concentrate more on non based airlines expansion ie Norwegian or Eurowings?

 

[Marko1]

Norwegian would be a good mix but the range of destinations that could be served would be limited unless they chose to base aircraft at Bristol. Given their deep interest in long haul I doubt they would be interested at the moment. I think a third based low cost airline would provide an insurance policy should one of the two existing carriers loses interest particularly Ryanair post brexit. If you look at the range of destinations that monarch or jet2 serve there are plenty where they would either serve alone or where demand requires more choice

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I suppose that Jet2 and Monarch are the airlines that come to mind with Jet2 seemingly becoming more and more a holiday airline and Monarch going the other way.

BRS was one of the airports that Monarch said they were looking at but this was 4/5 years ago before the airline reinvented itself as a lo-co from a mainly holiday airline.

Jet2 seems to be moving inexorably south from its original northern roots so a southern airport might not be out of the question in the next year or two, albeit I suppose Stansted is really a southern airport but of not much use to a huge swathe of country in south-west Britain.

Gatwick might seem an obvious choice but whether Jet2 could find room there I don't know.

That really leaves BRS, CWL and possibly, with a faint p, EXT and BOH if Jet2 (or Monarch) is looking south-westwards. BOH saw the genesis of Jet2 in Channel Express and has a large resident population of well-off people, mainly elderly, who could well form a decent market for Jet2 Holidays. EXT is broadly similar although perhaps neither airport has the catchment size to be serious contenders.

CWL might seem the obvious choice of the four as it has no resident low-cost airline and the two main holiday companies are showing no signs of expansion there. There doesn't seem much doubt that it could support a Jet2 or Monarch operation in summer, say two aircraft initially, but its Achilles' heel is winter. All lo-cos seem to cut back in winter, but they might have to be persuaded that there is a market to keep some form of operation going through the winter months.

As has been said, BRS is already well served by easyJet and Ryanair, with TUI and Thomas Cook increasing their presences, so there is a possibility that a Jet2 or Monarch arrival might be overkill. BHX is just up the road too with both Jet2 and Monarch based so would either airline risk any dilution of their services there? I would not write off BRS entirely though.

Having been an aviation industry watcher for about forty years nothing surprises me about it any more so I wouldn't be putting any money on any of these airports if I was a betting man. Not necessarily because I believe that one of these airlines won't come but because I wouldn't know which airport to plump for. I have a gut feeling but my innards aren't always helpful.

 

[Jerry]

There doesn't seem much doubt that it could support a Jet2 or Monarch operation in summer, say two aircraft initially, but its Achilles' heel is winter.

Both Monarch and Jet2 at Leeds run a smaller operation in the winter. Monarch goes down to 1 aircraft with 1 daily flight mostly. A bit similar to what TUI does at CWL. Jet2 does park up a lot of their aircraft over winter but they do own them which i believe would make the economics different to if they are leased. Also Jet2 does do a lot of charters during the winter as well.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It's a fair point. CWL is short of a decent winter Canaries programme so either Jet2 or Monarch could occupy a one-aircraft winter base for much of the week with those. The charters of coursed depend on tour operators and a CWL-based aircraft might not necessarily operate charters from there if no tour operator was looking for an aircraft.

Jet2 has operated one of BRS's weekly ski flights (Verona in the winter just ended) for several years, last winter apparently on a W-operation.

Some years ago a Jet2 aircraft seemed to park at BRS all week in winter to operate one or two winter sun routes for tour operators.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Jet2/Monarch

Taking a further look at 'what if' re Jet2 or Monarch, I've looked at all Jet2's routes from STN, MAN, BHX and LBA, and there is not one that is not currently served from BRS, either by easyJet and/or Ryanair, and/or by the main charter airlines.

I've also looked at Monarch's routes from LGW, MAN, BHX and LBA and the only ones not currently served from BRS (either by locos and/or charter airlines) are Stockholm (MAN and BHX), Zagreb (LGW and MAN) Tel Aviv (MAN) and Friedrichshafen (LGW).

So if Jet2 or Monarch did set up at BRS it's apparent that they would be largely duplicating existing routes. I'm not condemning that. Additional choice for passengers is never a bad thing, but they'd have to be as certain as they could be that there were sufficient routes that could stand the additional capacity.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

https://www.youtube.com/user/BristolAirportUK

This is the latest official airport video published within the last couple of weeks.

Would be great for the passenger experience if the terminal was always as quiet as depicted in the video.

 

[tpm]

Apologies if this has been posted already, but just came across an article about the airport in insidermedia. Not much in there we don't know yet, but there was this comment on freight which seemed interesting:

FREIGHT FORWARD
Sinclair wants to develop the airport’s ancillary services, including freight forwarding. He sees a case for handling high-value export goods manufactured in the region. “We have regular enquiries from freight operators considering operations here,” he says. Air fleet maintenance also offers potential, as does conferences, with the airport opening its 201-room Hampton by Hilton hotel this February.

 

[Jerry]

Apologies if this has ?been posted already, but just came across an article about the airport in insidermedia. Not much in there we don't know yet, but there was this comment on freight which seemed interesting:

Could they fit a MRO hangar on the BRS site? Isn't the land surrounding it green belt so that would stop the building of industrial estates for cargo?

 

[Aviador]

Apologies if this has been posted already, but just came across an article about the airport in insidermedia. Not much in there we don't know yet, but there was this comment on freight which seemed interesting:

Bristol Airport is potentially missing out here. The majority of airlines need the revenue that cargo operations bring and limiting flights to passengers only will deter some airlines from using Bristol even on flights whereby the airline feels passenger numbers can reach a satisfactory level. For regional airports such as BRS it's a doubled barrelled problem in that there is only a limited number of airlines serving these markets and not all of these airlines operate the aircraft types that can use relatively short runways. The airport can't afford to turn business away on the basis of not having a cargo facility. Irrespective of runway limitations, there will be some routes that will be do-able with mixed passenger and cargo ops that would otherwise be unviable as a passenger only route. #longhaulBristol #BRS #BristolAirport

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Apologies if this has been posted already, but just came across an article about the airport in insidermedia. Not much in there we don't know yet, but there was this comment on freight which seemed interesting:

BRS has had a negligible freight operation for many, many years. There was once a small facility which was then moved to Avonmouth before being closed down a number of years ago. It will be interesting to see what the CEO has in mind. It might be a consideration when the Master Plan receives its thorough review later this year into next year.

Could they fit a MRO hangar on the BRS site? Isn't the land surrounding it green belt so that would stop the building of industrial estates for cargo?

I don't think there would be a huge amount of warehousing possible, but there has been some building in recent years on the south side of the airport (the general aviation apron and Centreline territory) including a large hangar for the aircraft of Dyson, the vacuum cleaner magnate. Furthermore, the car park on the south side has been extended to a significant degree in the past 12 months into what were formerly fields. I was amazed that the local authority permitted this.

When the airport told Royal Mail they'd have to move from the north side a few years ago they offered a site on the south side that would have cost RM a packet to set up. I was told at the time by a senior person in the local RM set-up there that the airport didn't really want them at the airport, hence the unattractive offer. So if a RM facility could have been installed on the south side I suppose so could a modest freight-handling facility. I can't see where there would be room on the north side.

Bristol Airport is potentially missing out here. The majority of airlines need the revenue that cargo operations bring and limiting flights to passengers only will deter some airlines from using Bristol even on flights whereby the airline feels passenger numbers can reach a satisfactory level. For regional airports such as BRS it's a doubled barrelled problem in that there is only a limited number of airlines serving these markets and not all of these airlines operate the aircraft types that can use relatively short runways. The airport can't afford to turn business away on the basis of not having a cargo facility. Irrespective of runway limitations, there will be some routes that will be do-able with mixed passenger and cargo ops that would otherwise be unviable as a passenger only route. #longhaulBristol #BRS #BristolAirport

I agree but BRS seems to have accepted it is really a only a passenger-only airport - until the recent comment from the airport CEO highlighted by tpm.

The CAA used to provide stats re freight handled at UK airport but stopped doing so after 2015. This is the last list published.

http://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/...2_Summary_Of_Activity_at_UK_Airports_2015.pdf

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Weston Air Festival

Takes place this weekend and the Red Arrows will display there as they have done in recent years. They won't be using BRS. According to their website they will depart and return to RAF Brize Norton on both Saturday and Sunday.

I don't think they've used BRS for at least a couple of years. One suggestion was that it has become too busy with commercial traffic. I have a feeling that EXT was used last year for the Weston Air Festival, or it might have been CWL.

It's a pity because the Red Arrows are very popular when they park up at BRS as they are, I'm sure, at other airports they use.