Bristol: Airport Route Development & Rumours

[Tinkerman]

The leakage to BRS will still remain on the other more regular routes, but this is game changing for CWL and a real coup over BRS which i suspect aren't at all happy with today's news. Biggest aviation announcement from this part of the UK in many a year.

 

[tpm]

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people in the West Country will actually consider flying from CWL? Maybe people north of Bristol near the M4/M5 corridors? But for myself, I just won't consider it. Not out of spite, but it's just too much hassle to get to, and I can be at Heathrow just as quick and have more options there, so for me it will pretty much always boil down to BRS or Heathrow (or Gatwick if I'm really desperate)

 

[kraktoa]

The leakage to BRS will still remain on the other more regular routes, but this is game changing for CWL and a real coup over BRS which i suspect aren't at all happy with today's news. Biggest aviation announcement from this part of the UK in many a year.

So whats happened? Cant see any updates to threads

Here it is

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/live-updates-cardiff-airport-lands-12935194

Boy what a blow to BRS

 

[kraktoa]

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people in the West Country will actually consider flying from CWL? Maybe people north of Bristol near the M4/M5 corridors? But for myself, I just won't consider it. Not out of spite, but it's just too much hassle to get to, and I can be at Heathrow just as quick and have more options there, so for me it will pretty much always boil down to BRS or Heathrow (or Gatwick if I'm really desperate)

Having just returned from a trip to Cambodia the delights of the east beckons. I started looking at flights to Vietnam and there are connections from Doha. I will definitely consider CWL if the price is right.

 

[Tinkerman]

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people in the West Country will actually consider flying from CWL? Maybe people north of Bristol near the M4/M5 corridors? But for myself, I just won't consider it. Not out of spite, but it's just too much hassle to get to, and I can be at Heathrow just as quick and have more options there, so for me it will pretty much always boil down to BRS or Heathrow (or Gatwick if I'm really desperate)

Having just returned from a trip to Cambodia the delights of the east beckons. I started looking at flights to Vietnam and there are connections from Doha. I will definitely consider CWL if the price is right.

Kraktoa, completely agree. I for one will be looking to book these as soon as they become available.

TPM, for you to say such a comment demonstrates spite if i've ever heard of it. These flights will have a far-reaching catchment like the South-West/(Even Midlands if price is right) of the UK has never seen before.

 

[kraktoa]

My train fare to cardiff is £25. Taxi to Airport another tenner.
Compare train to heathrow. Minimum £80.
No APD.....what a bonus that will be. I hope they wont have APD

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people in the West Country will actually consider flying from CWL? Maybe people north of Bristol near the M4/M5 corridors? But for myself, I just won't consider it. Not out of spite, but it's just too much hassle to get to, and I can be at Heathrow just as quick and have more options there, so for me it will pretty much always boil down to BRS or Heathrow (or Gatwick if I'm really desperate)

In terms of overall passenger numbers the last published CAA survey for BRS and CWL was for 2012. That showed that 30,000 passengers (or to be more precise passenger journeys) of CWL's 1.013 million total that year were made by travellers having an origin or final destination in the South West, which means the entire South West Government region, ie Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, Bristol, Dorset, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall/ Scilly Isles.

As a comparison, 1.098 million passenger journeys of BRS's 6.125 million total in 2012 were made by travellers having origin or final destination in Wales.

I am in no doubt that the CWL Qatar route will be used by people living in the South West, especially those in the wider Bristol area. When Zoom operated from CWL to Canada it picked up quite a lot of West Country-based travellers.

It might be that fewer West Country people will use the CWL Qatar route than would have been the case with Wales-based people using BRS had Qatar pitched up there. The main reason for this is that Bristol is nearer LHR than is Cardiff (and there is also a direct motorway link with BHX) and LHR is the default long-haul scheduled airline airport for most West Country-based travellers.

Qatar will need to advertise extensively in the West Country to get their message across. I've never seen much publicity here for their BHX route, nor for EK at BHX for that matter.

I have a personal interest in this. My wife and I fly to Australia via the ME every year to visit family. Because of a medical condition my wife could not fly all that way in economy so we bite the bullet and pay for premium. The first time we went (in 2010) we used Emirates from BHX - business BHX-DXB/DXB-BHX (only two-class aircraft) and first, DXB-MEL-DXB. Although we had obtained a deal from our travel agent, in subsequent years we discovered that for not much more we could fly all the way from the UK and back in first with EK, if we were flexible with dates (via deals this travel agent had arranged). We've since flown five more times to and from MEL with EK, all in first and all from LGW where the deals were to be had.

Because Emirates provides chauffeured cars for business and first travellers (a small top-up fee is charged to LGW from Bristol) getting to Sussex is not really a hassle. We have become sick to the back teeth with DXB though. It's a hell hole and we are actively looking to another airline for our next visit to Oz. Even travelling first you have to make your own way from one part of the terminal, partly by train, to the other through what resembles a football crowd coming out of Wembley in terms of mass.

We had tentatively arranged Etihad via Abu Dhabi in first from LHR for our next visit but personal circumstances mean we've had to postpone that. We've looked at Qatar at BHX more than once but timings from there meant a very long wait at Doha at least in one direction. It would be business class with Qatar, at least from BHX to/from Doha and will be the case from CWL too, but Qatar seems to have an excellent reputation with this product. We shall be looking seriously at what CWL has to offer when details are announced.

The only downside with Qatar is that they don't provide complimentary chauffeured cars for their premium customers, unlike Emirates and Etihad, although with the way Emirates is beginning to cut back on some things I wonder how much longer this service will remain.

 

[Tinkerman]

In terms of overall passenger numbers the last published CAA survey for BRS and CWL was for 2012. That showed that 30,000 passengers (or to be more precise passenger journeys) of CWL's 1.013 million total that year were made by travellers having an origin or final destination in the South West, which means the entire South West Government region, ie Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, Bristol, Dorset, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall/ Scilly Isles.

As a comparison, 1.098 million passenger journeys of BRS's 6.125 million total in 2012 were made by travellers having origin or final destination in Wales.

I am in no doubt that the CWL Qatar route will be used by people living in the South West, especially those in the wider Bristol area. When Zoom operated from CWL to Canada it picked up quite a lot of West Country-based travellers.

It might be that fewer West Country people will use the CWL Qatar route than would have been the case with Wales-based people using BRS had Qatar pitched up there. The main reason for this is that Bristol is nearer LHR than is Cardiff (and there is also a direct motorway link with BHX) and LHR is the default long-haul scheduled airline airport for most West Country-based travellers.

Qatar will need to advertise extensively in the West Country to get their message across. I've never seen much publicity here for their BHX routes, nor for EK at BHX for that matter.

I have a personal interest in this. My wife and I fly to Australia via the ME every year to visit family. Because of a medical condition my wife could not fly all that way in economy so we bite the bullet and pay for premium. The first time we went (in 2010) we used Emirates from BHX - business BHX-DXB/DXB-BHX (only two-class aircraft) and first, DXB-MEL-DXB. Although we had obtained a deal from our travel agent, in subsequent years we discovered that for not much more we could fly all the way from the UK and back in first with EK, if we were flexible with dates (via deals this travel agent had arranged). We've since flown five more times to and from MEL with EK, all in first and all from LGW where the deals were to be had.

Because Emirates provides chauffeured cars for business and first travellers (a small top-up fee is charged to LGW from Bristol) getting to Sussex is not really a hassle. We have become sick to the back teeth with DXB though. It's a hell hole and we are actively looking to another airline for our next visit to Oz. Even travelling first you have to make your own way from one part of the terminal, partly by train, to the other through what resembles a football crowd coming out of Wembley in terms of mass.

We had tentatively arranged Etihad via Abu Dhabi in first from LHR for our next visit but personal circumstances mean we've had to postpone that. We've looked at Qatar at BHX more than once but timings from there meant a very long wait at Doha at least in one direction. It would be business class with Qatar, at least from BHX to/from Doha and will be the case from CWL too, but Qatar seems to have an excellent reputation with this product. We shall be looking seriously at what CWL has to offer when details are announced.

The only downside with Qatar is that they don't provide complimentary chauffeured cars for their premium customers, unlike Emirates and Etihad, although with the way Emirates is beginning to cut back on some things I wonder how much longer this service will remain.

But if your layover is a certain time in DOH, QR will pay for you to take their tour of Doha which lasts three hours. How great is that ?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

But if your layover is a certain time in DOH, QR will pay for you to take their tour of Doha which lasts three hours. How great is that ?

Not for us. It might suit some. We want to get there and back (in terms of the journey times) as quickly as we can. Hanging around en route is anathema to Mrs Yokel and I'm almost as anti. That's the reason why we've never broken our journey for a day or two at Dubai to see the sights there.

 

[ljm104]

This is a bitter blow for BRS. One wonders how much support the Welsh government is offering here, given that BRS surely has a stronger commercial case. Presumably it is substantial.

Does anyone know if Cardiff has any significant cargo operation? As has been discussed before, I wonder if the total absence of cargo operations at Bristol could have played a part.

In some ways good news for Bristol and Gloucestershire, but Cardiff remains awkward for all those traveling from Taunton and beyond. Journey times from Exeter are 2 and a half hours.

 

[kraktoa]

When the Welsh CM meets the CEO of Qatar its a different ball game from Robert Sinclair trying his spiel. Welsh Politician vs a New Zealander......

 

[Marko1]

Firstly I have to say well done to Cardiff in getting this new route. It certainly brings much needed kudos. However I wonder what factors were taken in consideration in arriving at that decision. Was it the runway length, in house maintenance (na routinely maintains all its boeings wide bodies there ) , cargo opportunities or Welsh government incentives or a combination of more than one. Qatar and Cardiff airport will have to work hard at gaining custom from the English side of the Severn which could quite as easily fly from Birmingham or Heathrow . Other airlines tried schemes like refunding the toll costs such as bmi baby.

This loss certainly stings but was Bristol definitely being considered from the outset? The fact is it's a route with kudos but in the last month we have achieved an awful lot from Thomas cook and Thomson and that should be applauded. I think we should focus on our strengths and build our business base. Let's get jet2 or monarch in as well .

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There is little doubt that BRS was trying to get Qatar which was probably by far the most likely of the MEB3 to go there. The ubiquitous Simon Calder reckons that today's news will 'infuriate' Bristol Airport that will, he says, 'redouble its efforts' to attract Emirates or Etihad.

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...e-world-auckland-bali-australia-a7699521.html

I think the chances of that being successful are zero. Apart from the unlikelihood of two competing MEB3 from Severnside, neither Emirates nor Etihad has aircraft that would work from BRS. Whichever was the winner of the ME race between BRS and CWL was likely to go forward unchallenged on that front.

Potentially, it is a huge opportunity for both CWL and the wider Welsh economy and a correspondingly huge blow for BRS, although perversely perhaps not quite such a blow to the local economy which already has excellent long haul connectivity via LHR, BHX and soon CWL. Having said that, had Qatar chosen BRS it would have done the local economy no harm at all.

I said earlier today that BRS must now concentrate on doing what it is good at - piling up the short haul routes and punters with, hopefully, more destinations and increased frequencies on a number of existing routes. Could now do with someone like Monarch or Jet2 to give the incumbent airlines some competition, although today's news might make that more difficult as CWL raises it profile. Sorry kraktoa - I know you're already all working your socks off at BRS.😉

 

[andrewgreen]

This is obviously a big blow to Bristol and i agree with Yokel the chances of Eithad or Emirates are practically nill. I think the only possibilty for a middle eastern route for Bristol now is Turkish Airlines to Istanbul but even then not for a while until they recover from their current problems.
I do find the decision a little strange if its to attract custom from the Southwest ,like myself ,most of it finds it easier and quicker to get to Heathrow than Cardiff !

 

[Jerry]

This is a bitter blow for BRS. One wonders how much support the Welsh government is offering here, given that BRS surely has a stronger commercial case. Presumably it is substantial.

Does anyone know if Cardiff has any significant cargo operation? As has been discussed before, I wonder if the total absence of cargo operations at Bristol could have played a part.

In some ways good news for Bristol and Gloucestershire, but Cardiff remains awkward for all those traveling from Taunton and beyond. Journey times from Exeter are 2 and a half hours.

I think there will be a lot of factors. Cargo is significant as Qatar is the 3rd largest air cargo carrier and you are effectively linking 2 economies. Wales effectively has it's own government to speak for it whereas the Southwest doesn't. Wales as a country has a lot of new projects that Qatari investors could invest in from the Swansea tidal lagoon to the Anglesey version of centre parcs that's been proposed to the new stadium/arena/hotel complex proposed in Cardiff. Also the airline itself may have been more impressed by CWL's pitch than BRS especially if they had specific demands. Another factor is that Qatar is a minor shareholder in IAG and CWL has a very good relationship with IAG through BAMC, Vueling and IB Express. Also the engines for the Boeing 777 8/9X are to be maintained in Caerphilly by GE Aviation and Qatar has ordered 60. I also think people shouldn't underestimate the traffic between Wales and Australia and New Zealand i read that it was 250,000 people a year and many of them will go via LHR on Qatar's rivals like Emirates, Singapore, Qantas, Air New Zealand and Etihad.
I forgot that Aston Martin was also due to start in 2019.

 

[forest1979]

Good news for Cardiff but definitely disappointed that Bristol couldn't manage to land them. This would have been the big news everyone on this forum has been waiting for and that one jewel of a route in their network to sing and dance about... I thought it was odds on given the airports growth and all the recent publicity of Bristol as a place to visit.. In my opinion a far better fit for this of us south west of Bristol.. Cardiff is too out the way and someone has already said, just as quick to travel into London.
I'd love to know what the pulling power was for Cardiff when you consider passenger numbers, catchment area etc, Cardiff must have had something up their sleeve to win them over. Maybe Qatar wanted destinations to all parts of the UK or as has been mentioned, cargo ability..

I know LHR is just up the road technically speaking but a single competitive ME longhaul route from Bristol surely has to work.. With nearly 8 million passengers without a scheduled long haul route I'm guessing that Qatar's decision to go to Wales will be in private, a bitter pill for Bristol airport to swallow..

So what are the options? Ethiad has the 787 9, is that doable from Bristol? or do we think it's the case that Bristol needs to give up on any scheduled direct long haul pipe dreams and realise that location, expansion restrictions and proximity to London is just too much of an obstacle to overcome... oh and that ever so slightly short runway!!

Anyhow there it is... I'm sure this will rumble on.

 

[forest1979]

I think there will be a lot of factors. Cargo is significant as Qatar is the 3rd largest air cargo carrier and you are effectively linking 2 economies. Wales effectively has it's own government to speak for it whereas the Southwest doesn't. Wales as a country has a lot of new projects that Qatari investors could invest in from the Swansea tidal lagoon to the Anglesey version of centre parcs that's been proposed to the new stadium/arena/hotel complex proposed in Cardiff. Also the airline itself may have been more impressed by CWL's pitch than BRS especially if they had specific demands. Another factor is that Qatar is a minor shareholder in IAG and CWL has a very good relationship with IAG through BAMC, Vueling and IB Express. Also the engines for the Boeing 777 8/9X are to be maintained in Caerphilly by GE Aviation and Qatar has ordered 60. I also think people shouldn't underestimate the traffic between Wales and Australia and New Zealand i read that it was 250,000 people a year and many of them will go via LHR on Qatar's rivals like Emirates, Singapore, Qantas, Air New Zealand and Etihad.
I forgot that Aston Martin was also due to start in 2019.

Thanks jerry you have answered a number of my questions.. when you lay it out like that, why not plump for CWL

 

[TheLocalYokel]

All good points Jerry and some at least may have helped to swing it CWL's way. Qatar will still be missing out on a direct service to the West Country (the Bristol region is one of the most economically vibrant and successful in the UK) but may have calculated that many West business people and others will still use their airline through LHR, BHX and now CWL.

Against that there will be some who might have switched to Qatar had they started at BRS but who will now continue to use other airlines, mainly from LHR.

The other people they are unlikely to pick up through CWL in any sort of numbers, but might have attracted some through BRS, are those who live south of BRS right down to Cornwall.

As my main aviation interest is in the economics of the subject I'd be fascinated to know the pros and cons that influenced Qatar in their decision. Unfortunately, I doubt that I ever will.

 

[forest1979]

The ubiquitous Simon Calder reckons that today's news will 'infuriate' Bristol Airport that will, he says, 'redouble its efforts' to attract Emirates or Etihad.

Interestingly in this article he suggests a four day a week A320... if that's true then I am surprised.. that doesn't suggest cargo traffic...

 

[Jerry]

Thanks jerry you have answered a number of my questions.. when you lay it out like that, why not plump for CWL

Even though i laid all those reasons out i'm still gob smacked about it!🙂