Air India

[Brummiegem]

Having read read all the above posts I think some on here are being a tad negative.
I know Air India do not have the best reputation and can be unreliable at best,but what makes anyone think that starting services to MAN could badly affect flights from BHX.
Yes I am aware of their financial position,but that has been like that for a number of years.
As for MAN offering a better deal,well AI knew what to expect from BHX anyway.It is not as if they a new carrier to BHX.
If airlines can operate into MAN and then succeed at BHX then why not the other way round.
You only need look at EK,TK,FI and the extra capacity being provided by LH and AF to see that serving both airports can work.
I do understand the concerns and frustrations of some of you,and believe me,having worked at BHX for over 20 years I do see where you are coming from but I think this one that may not be as bad as it sounds.
Also if AI do reduce services or worse pull out,it will either provide an opportunity for someone else,or it will give the airport managers the kick up the backside they deserve.
I certainly will be watching with interest how this one develops.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi all, the trouble with Birmingham airport management for many years and recently is that it has this take of leave attitude with airlines that want to use Birmingham, but unfortunately if demand is there at Birmingham, but management throw a take or leave attitude to attracting airlines to Birmingham, then unfortunately airlines won't come to Birmingham at all, and then you get kehoe stating that only fourty per cent of the west midlands is only using their own airport and the other fourty to fifty per cent are using either Heathrow, Gatwick or Manchester, then you wonder why, you need to attract and not puse away business to grow the airport, jobs and local economy by letting another area and region scoop it from you and expand on it...andyc

 

[Manniashraf]

Well it looks like Manchester has got the air India flights too..
Any news if this will effect Birmingham as air India over the phone are insisting it will not and Manchester will start of at 4x weekly and may raise to 6 weekly.

Looks like things are set to go for Manchester and hats of to Charlie C :whiteflag: ornish

 

[Ray Finkle]

I'm not sure a decision has been made whether to change the BHX frequency, if indeed one actually needs to be made.

If they do reduce back from daily it definitely won't be due to lack of passengers, March alone saw a whopping 13475 giving a load factor of around 86%, this is not a one off either. That is also in the face of Turkmenistan using 777's on some flights.

I get the feeling that BHX has been a pleasant surprise for AI and they probably feel there is more to be had from regional UK. I'm not sure the potential of MAN flights would have to much of an effect on the BHX numbers, I'd imagine very few of our pax originate from the north where there is plenty of choice. AI have tried MAN before and it didn't work, this time of course there is the excellent economics of the Dreamliner which definitely helps.

I'd say the two services could happily coexist but it depends on their aircraft availability and whether a couple of weekly BHX 787's will be needed elsewhere. There is also the possibility that their deal at BHX is coming to an end and are looking to cut ready for when the price rises?

 

[jfy1999]

Instead of dropping flights due to lack of availability they might use different equipment like a 787-9 or 777-200?

 

[andyc941]

The Man flights are not confirmed yet and i wont be satisfied its starting until it is bookable. If it dose start i cant see it affecting the BHX service which has been running for nearly 2 years now and well established with really hight pax numbers

 

[thunderchild]

I don"t see why capacity at BHX would be changed because MAN is being launched - did Icelandair cut capacity at MAN when they opened BHX? Have AA? No reason to suggest both routes can't operate successfully the way things stand.

 

[nwoody2001]

According to twitter, Paul Kehoe is in India today visiting the airports 'Customers'... now this could be in response to news that AI wish to launch MAN-DEL or (I hope) something else....

Regardless of what happens up the M6, AI have done very well out of BHX, and once the airline gets its costs under control, I can see the route becoming a profitable one for the airline, our load factors certainly look encouraging.

The question is, now that AI are daily at BHX, what else? with Emirates starting the 3rd daily flight in august, I suspect this will offer more competition on the route, so what will AI response be? nothing? increase/decrease in frequency? a new route? does BHX-BOM have potential as I've heard that AI are also wanting to establish a second base there too after Delhi?

Pure speculation I appreciate but be good to hear your thoughts?

 

[jfy1999]

At best we could have AI start BOM and thus have another destination from BHX for our Indian communities, but I can't see that happening in the near future. I think the market for direct BHX flights to India is too big for even a third DXB flight to affect. To be honest I think Air India will neither expand or shrink. They might lose a handful of passengers to EK's third flight but will still have high enough loads to keep going daily.

 

[Brum X]

I wonder if BHX will make a statement regarding the rumours surrounding Air India, there are mixed rumours going around, some saying BHX will be dropped in favour of MAN and others are saying the complete opposite that schedules and frequencies will be increased due to the demand for these flights.

Just checked AIr India website and BHX still showing daily right into January 2016 and also fares on a selected date in January showed fares from BHX are more expensive than LHR (Dunno if this is a good thing or not)

MAN not currently on the drop down list.

 

[andyc941]

I've read on other forums and groups that his trip was a success and AI will keep the BHX service up and running. Also a rumour that really cheesed me off that PK tried to persuade AI with a deal to try and keep them away from starting a MAN route.Looks like he is trying to play dirty but did not succeed

 

[nwoody2001]

The reality is none of us will know what ever happens at these meeting nor what is discussed. All we do know is that its a very competitive market and all airports (BHX and MAN) are looking out for their best interests. Im not saying its right, but that's the reality.

At the end of the day, I think BHX and MAN stand to benefit a lot if they were able to work together in some situations, especially in justifying the strength of regional airports outside London. Whilst both airports will do their best to attract new routes first, the concept of steeling routes from competing airports does seem a little underhanded, equally slating other airports, but alas this is a commercial world...

...at the end of the day, im biased to BHX, but only time will tell a) what AI plans for BHX are and b) what AI plans for MAN are.... I assume we'll find out the answer to both in the not too distant future!!!!

 

[Jon Dempsey]

I've read on other forums and groups that his trip was a success and AI will keep the BHX service up and running. Also a rumour that really cheesed me off that PK tried to persuade AI with a deal to try and keep them away from starting a MAN route.Looks like he is trying to play dirty but did not succeed

It that rumour is true, it's underhand and the sort of thing that will come back and bite PK up the jacksie!

 

[nwoody2001]

you telling me airports don't try to do that all the time??!! I doubt PK is different to anyone in the commercial world..

An Airport is a private business, which provides a service and is keen to attract customers and clients, similar to my industry... to survive such companies have to ask 2 fundamental questions...

1) what can I do to attract this customer/client to my service, and
2) what can I do to ensure this customer/client does not use a competitors services!

its not underhand, its the nasty world of business, and is what PK is paid to do!!!!

 

[Ray Finkle]

I'm sure if someone such as Qatar were planning say a 4x weekly BHX service and MAN offered them a deal to add the flights there instead people would be happy. We don't know if it did happen but if true, it's just business. I am glad to see Mr Kehoe make the effort to go out to India to attempt to save the service, I sincerely hope he succeeded.

Back to BHX it'll be interesting to see how we will end the year with AI. At the moment we're hearing so many different rumours with people seemingly adding their own interpretation to little snippets that it's hard to know what to believe. I'd also like a little clarification from Mr Kehoe but it may be too early for that at the moment.

Not strictly AI but it may be related. I know the fees airlines pay will be commercially sensitive information and only those involved will know actual figures but it seems to be cited as an issue with BHX far too often. It has long been suggested that the BHX intro deal lasts for two years so is it a coincidence that this is happening as the AI service is now approaching the same time period? As they say there's no smoke without fire.

Hopefully this will serve as a wakeup call for BHX and they will realise that just because Birminghams economy is doing so well it doesn't mean they can charge higher prices and expect airlines still to come in. LTN, STN, EMA etc are all too easily accessible from our region and history shows that Midlanders are not afraid to travel. If we want real growth we have to be competitive.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

its not underhand, its the nasty world of business, and is what PK is paid to do!!!!

There's nothing nasty about the world of business. It's what pays your mortgage!!

If what Andy says is true, PK has not only spoken with AI to save the Birmingham route, he has offered a deal to prevent an additional Manchester route which is a potential source of profit for the airline.

If I were an AI Exec, I would be questioning whether PK had my company's best interests at heart!!!

 

[Ray Finkle]

But would that not then be a decision for the AI execs to make?

For Mr K BHX is the priority and if there is to be four extra weekly flights to the UK later this year then surely he has the right to make an offer to AI to get those flights into his airport? I don't see anything nasty about it, I'd expect any airport boss to do exactly the same.

If he has made an offer it's then up to those at AI to decide what is in the best interests of their organization, extra flights into BHX or new flights to MAN, but that's all it will be, an offer and one I think he was perfectly entitled to make (if he has).

I'm not knocking Andy as the rumour has obviously come from elsewhere but these negotiations would have been discussing very sensitive information and would only be attended by a limited number of people. I'd also imagine those people would not be the sort to go discussing such on internet forums, indeed I'd imagine their employment contracts would demand a very high level of discretion. Given that the rumour goes into detail about the meeting I'd be interested to know just how much truth there is (if any) or whether it is simply down to someones imagination?

 

[Jon Dempsey]

To be fair Ray, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't anything else than invention.

If the Birmingham service was not at risk, as implied, to offer a deal to prevent a Manchester service would simply be cutting Birmingham's revenues.

I'd see it more as a bargaining tool employed by the AI team to get a better price.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Looks as though Air India have decided against converting their last remaining Dreamliners to the 900 variant.

Air India shelves plan to acquire Boeing 787-9 aircraft

NEW DELHI: National carrier Air India has shelved its plan to acquire five Boeing 787-9, the higher range variant of Boeing Dreamliner (787-800) aircraft, after failing to secure the nod of its board and would stick to the original model.

Air India currently has 20 Dreamliners in its fleet. The carrier had signed a deal with the American aircraft maker Boeing Co in 2005 to acquire 68 planes, of which 27 are the Boeing 787-800s. The rest 41 are Boeing 777s (23) and 737-800 (18).

Full article: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 530374.cms

 

[Ray Finkle]

One to look out for. Air India's 21st 787 Dreamliner VT-ANV was delivered yesterday.