British Airways

[ridgeback]

As usual you make a lot of sense Heather and I agree.

This summer is crucial. We have the 3/day all summer long and with le Tour in Jun/July and considering how well last Sept/Oct went then I sincerely hope that from June-Oct the route performs really well.

I think Jan is looking like being nicely in front of last Jan fwiw and last Jan we had 4 every day, this year half the month with 2/day so not all doom and gloom by any stretch.

 

[ryan]

Question is why is it so much cheaper going via AMS, do BA charge more going via LHR because of the so called high cost of slots there

I imagine the government taxes (APD, etc.) will be a lot higher in the UK than the Netherlands. Average fares seem to have doubled in the past few years (note: only based on personal experience - I did LHR-JFK a few years ago for £220, you'll really struggle to get much less than £400 nowadays) due to the dramatic increase in the UK departure tax. The UK will lose business and traffic to AMS, CDG, FRA unless the government realise that the tax is hurting the aviation industry.

It wouldn't surprise me that on the fares you quoted, even though BA is the higher fare, BA will be earning less than KLM due to the taxes paid.

 

[lbia]

Having just booked with BA, they were actually very similar to KLM prices from LBA but for the route I was taking they have a direct flight from LHR. I looked at various different destinations - a lot of south America & USA are cheaper with KLM but BA seem to be dramatically cheaper to Asia, and have very good connections from LBA as apposed to KLM which have you on the ground at AMS for hours and hours. One thing that I don't like about BA, is that for pretty much all south & central America they route you LBA-LHR-MAD then onto an Iberia, and this always seems to be cheaper than the direct BA flight from LHR. I don't know if they are desperately trying to fill Iberia's MAD-South America flights but south/central America is a huge Market and is much more appealing flying with just one stop with KLM via AMS than adding on an extra 5+ hours via Madrid, especially if the price is comparable.

As everyone mentions on here, it's a shame BA can't get a night stop, which would open up a lot more connections for the morning departures from Heathrow.

 

[ryan]

Where were you trying to get to? Don't forget that BA only flies to Buenos Aires, Rio, São Paulo, Mexico City and Cancun (LGW), so unless you were going there, you will have to fly through Madrid. I've just tried LBA to all the aforementioned routes, ALL showed the direct LHR flight as the first result, EZE and GRU showed an Iberia alternative, MEX and GIG were BA only, and Cancun couldn't find any flights (probably getting confused as it's an LGW route).

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Now B A part of I A G, makes sense to have your major hub at an airport with capacity, LHR now full. B A boss Wille Walsh now based in Madrid. Hopefully a bye product of the floods is that we will realise that enviroment concerns have killed off this countries growth and we can now build Boris Island.

 

[jason1-11]

Had lunch with a BA Captain today. He stated that from time to time the pilots have a session with a senior member of management to discuss how the airline is doing and to ask any questions.

As he's on the A320 fleet, he asked what the future of short haul flying was within BA and the response back from the senior manager was "I will be retired in 5 years and doubt we will be flying to Stavanger or Leeds by then."

Lets prove him wrong and I'll certainly be booking another LHR-LBA trip using my Avios miles!

 

[a300boy]

Down to two flight a day today and tomorrow and maybe the rest of the month !!
BA and the Airport do not seem to want to tell anyone why so we would have to say its not looking good at all.

 

[LBA787]

Low loads I'm afraid recently with usually around 30-80 pax. You get the odd flight with 90+ but it never seems to break to tonne mark!

There's no doubt in my mind BA will get decent loads this summer. I only hope the route continues into W14/15....

We all know what the route needs! For me it's a real shame if it's never given the chance to succeed with a real business friendly schedule. I know it's not BA's fault with LHR but for me it just stinks! Without the route and the connections it brings the Leeds city region will suffer well into the future.

:crazy:

 

[Aviador]

On top of the obvious things this service needs such as two new runways at Heathrow with no slot restraints. LBA need to be flogging this route as a loss leader. Every passenger should be getting free car parking at LBA and free security fast track, porter service and whatever it takes. Every flight should be rammed to the rafters if they are serious about keeping the London Heathrow service going.

 

[rmac]

I am surprised that the business community in the Leeds /Bradford area have not, it would seem, taken to the very valuable BA LHR service serving their area. Maybe in time they will but I would have thought that by now every service, apart from the last evening one, would have been full or nearly full. For an airport that is growing faster than most, attracting new operators, ie SAS and Monarch, sees Jet2 well established, has had the terminal upgraded to excellent standard you would have thought that BA would be on to a winner. Granted the flight times are not ideal. This is probably the main problem. If there was an early morning departure for better onward connections,, an arrival from Heathrow at perhaps 9am providing a good connection from T/A or other Long Haul routes and then a 9:30ish departure back to Heathrow, then an evening
northbound flight that allows the aircraft to overnight at LBA ready for the morning flight back.. then I am sure the passenger numbers would go up considerably. However, as has been discussed before whether this would offset the considerable overnight costs is another matter!!
But it would a great shame to lose BA. Few cities in the UK have a connection to LHR.
It amazes me that smaller German, French, Italian, Spanish cities have good services to mainline airports such as Frankfurt, Madrid etc but in the UK we do not.

 

[ridgeback]

Firstly - in defence BA trims it's capacity according to demand. NCL if you look is currently down from 5 to 4 / day and this is an extremely busy route indeed.

But that aside the numbers are well down on what you wld hope to be seeing on this route and that is a sad fact.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Frankly for business travel I always take the train. If your meeting in central London cant see the point taking the plane, never mind the lack of early morning flight.
I live by Yeadon airport would rather take the train to Leeds and then the 7am to London and be in the office by 9.30am when all the other staff arrive. Leave the office at 3.30pm and get an after 4pm train.
Write up my reports on the 2 hr+ train journey, sent emails etc home for 7.30pm.
Frankly for me LBA to LHR good only for onward flights out of the u.k.

 

[imagineif]

I do find the way people carry on over this route quite alarming, as if the very future of our airport depended on it. Some harsh facts to bring us all back to reality.

- It is not competitive enough with the train service for those wanting to commute to London on business. In both terms of cost & time.

- Clearly BA are not competitive overall with KLM or people feel more loyal to KLM from LBA - who are putting in even more capacity despite the introduction of BA. 400 seats per day for summer.

- With the exception of Manchester & Newcastle - in England the BA domestic network is none existent & the LBA route seems to go against the strategy they chose many moons ago which was pull out of all the regional airports and concentrate on more stable hubs feeding into London. This makes the LBA route some kind of experiment or a slot retainer.

- Flying A320/319 on flights under 1 hour- under capacity without a lucrative Business product on board into LHR is an incredibly inefficient and misguided plan. The small percentage of London only passengers will not generate profit and there is not enough connecting traffic to make money. Legacy carriers require the majority of passengers to be connecting onto intercontinental flights to make regional/feeder flights viable.

- Its punctuality/cancellation ratio has given the service a bad reputation from the start.

- The timings are not representative of an airline that is committed or serious about maximising loads and making the route work.

This format can not and will not continue unless BA are happy to operate it at a loss. Leeds may well be the biggest business centre outside of London but this route does not really serve that market. The majority of my friends who go to London on business continue to use the train which is cheap and just as quick once you take away airport commute, lines at security, delays, slots and then a further commute on arrival in LHR.

and...

Here is a prime example at why this rout is unattractive to the connecting passenger from LBA:

9th June

LBA-LHR-CPT 18hours - departing 1450 arriving 0955 next day - British Airways
LBA-AMS-CPT 14hours - departing 0620 arriving 2135 same day - KLM

Return connectivity is more competetive with BA - also taking about 14 hours but look at the price!

BA=£930
KLM=£555

Its a no brainer!

Our little airport survived when BA cut and run on us before, it continues to grow and expand its network. It has a legacy carrier in KLM that continues to commit to LBA through the rough & smooth and now SAS are testing the water.

BA gives us one route to LHR with poor timings, reliability and systematic cancellations and yet everybody has their tongues embed deep in its rear.

We should all put the same attention and effort into the airlines that have kept LBA going when BA was not about over this past decade. Our bread & butter!!! Lets encourage them to stay and grow with us.

If it wasn't for the likes of Jet2, Ryanair, bmi (until its demise) and KLM LBA would not be what it is today.

Life before BA, Life after it for LBA.

 

[User0001]

Sadly the route is not performing the way BA would like.

The route was opened on the back of the bmi sale and the fact up to 3 flights were arriving into MAN within 10 minutes. BA knew it needed the slots, but operating to MAN in the fashion they were was not feasible, so the decision was made to open LBA, as the flight times were similar and the costs of opening LBA were still better than operating so many Airbus aircraft to MAN in very short spaces.

From my own point of view and listening to many conversations, if this route remains in 1-2 years time I will be astounded, but, It just depends on any long haul expansion really.

 

[a300boy]

Interesting views from diverse view points ! what a good forum this is.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Would expect no action until the Davies Commission report published late 2015. Lba flights to Boris Island scheduled for June 2040, B A announces closure of their LHR hub same date.

 

[Jordan-34092]

I hope the route stays i really do but it is up against a few challenges. The early morning flight would be the most ideal situation. I personally have looked at flying from LBA to LHR when i travel to london but this is the major thing putting me off from doing it, the times arriving into london at 10:30 am for the first flight of the day isn't ideal especially when i can catch the 06:35 service from Shipley to London and be in london by 09:00, of course the route isn't there just for point to point and i know that but there are the odd passengers, like me who use/would use it for point to point.

 

[White Heather]

Interestingly, when the LBA director first advised the Consultative committee that LBA were in discussions with BA over bringing this route back, he advised that the best we could hope for was 2 A319's a day, so when it was first announced at 4 times daily I think even he was surprised. Now, at least for this week, we are back to twice daily. I have logged a question for the next consultative meeting on the 27th, asking (nicely) what is going on and whether BA remain committed to the route in the longer term.

 

[lbaspotter]

Just to let you know British Airways Leeds/Bradford to London Heathrow route is back to 3x daily Airbus A319 operation on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Sundays again form today whilst it will remain 2x daily on Monday and Tuesdays for a few more weeks. The Saturday operation is unchanged a 2 flights.

 

[Bigman]

An interesting comparison for those who like to look at load factors. A colleague at work came back from New York with Virgin Atlantic at the weekend. Her connecting Little Red flight to Manchester had precisely 15 people on board.