Birmingham: (BHX) - General Thread

[Brum X]

No chance of any French Regional routes by AFR or HOP

Not even Lyon LYS in the future when things get back to normal ?

They served this route in the past I think but they were also in competition with Flybe ??

 

[Ray Finkle]

Ryanair appear optimistic that 2021 could see pax levels return to around 70% of their pre-Covid levels and are "in active discussions with progressive airports.”

“We’re very excited—there are enormous growth opportunities coming out of this. But those growth opportunities will go to the airports that are fleet of foot.”

Some airports will be looking forward to extra based aircraft and new routes whereas here at BHX I'm just hoping that Madrid doesn't join the missing list

O’Leary sets optimistic tone for summer 2021 | Aviation Week

Ryanair CEO says ULCC plans to add capacity quickly and stimulate demand through pricing.

www.routesonline.com

 

[Ray Finkle]

I was just going through the ever diminishing BHX route network and noticed that, if we discount ski flights, there are only two destinations left in France! CDG with Air France, a route that saw slots become available but had no takers, and a weekly Bergerac from Jet2.

In recent times we have seen Toulouse, Rennes, Limoges, Orly, Bastia, Biarritz, Bordeaux, Lyon, Avignon, Brest, Nantes, La Rochelle, Perpignan and Nice all disappear.

Most of those were served by Flybe and what happened was totally out of the airports control but looking to the future I'm struggling to see how these can be replaced without something big from easyjet or Ryanair?

There may be a chance of Jet2 adding La Rochelle but beyond that?

 

[Matt995]

I was just going through the ever diminishing BHX route network and noticed that, if we discount ski flights, there are only two destinations left in France! CDG with Air France, a route that saw slots become available but had no takers, and a weekly Bergerac from Jet2.

In recent times we have seen Toulouse, Rennes, Limoges, Orly, Bastia, Biarritz, Bordeaux, Lyon, Avignon, Brest, Nantes, La Rochelle, Perpignan and Nice all disappear.

Most of those were served by Flybe and what happened was totally out of the airports control but looking to the future I'm struggling to see how these can be replaced without something big from easyjet or Ryanair?

There may be a chance of Jet2 adding La Rochelle but beyond that?

I think Ray, that just shows how important Flybe was to Birmingham, despite the bad press and negativity they used to get, they did have a large network of flights, and I guess around 80% of their routes just haven't been replaced. And sadly I just can't see many of these routes returning in the next 5 years.

Question is how active is the Birmingham route team? Or even the CEO of the airport? When did he last make a statement of any kind? In fact, I've even forgotten his name, he's so quiet! Yes I know we are in a pandemic, times are so difficult in aviation currently, but other airports, & CEO's have been active over the last few months, challenging the travel restrictions, and announcing new airlines/routes. Why not Birmingham?

I can't help thinking that the airport has been run so badly over the last 40 years, frankly how can we move forward with the current management and share holders? We need new owners, a total shake up, new ideas to attract airlines NOW, not just plodding along as usual, hoping new airlines will come to us, and accept our out dated terms and conditions! We have to move with the times. The next few years is currently looking grim.

Birmingham its time to grab the bull by the horns and wake up to the 2020's!!!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Are they even bothered about so many missing routes as long as the airport is making a profit?

I seem to remember someone (possibly Paul Kehoe) saying that easyjet felt as if the Midlands market was covered by their existing bases and they saw no need for a direct presence. Wizz UK are looking like being the next big player so are BHX going to sit back and watch history repeat itself yet again?

 

[rollo]

Are they even bothered about so many missing routes as long as the airport is making a profit?

I seem to remember someone (possibly Paul Kehoe) saying that easyjet felt as if the Midlands market was covered by their existing bases and they saw no need for a direct presence. Wizz UK are looking like being the next big player so are BHX going to sit back and watch history repeat itself yet again?

History repeat itself?

Is the pope a Catholic ?

To be honest it's beginning to look like they are just watching the tide go out and hoping it comes back in.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Interesting article linked below about a potential surge of traffic in S21.

Aside from consumer confidence and a recovery in demand it states that the key to any business case is new incentives. “We’re also entering a new era of incentives and support,” Stroud stressed

It's worth a read.

Stroud said that airlines are increasingly after risk-sharing opportunities from airports and city partners, especially in the form of revenue guarantees. “If these things are constructed in the right manner, they can be a win-win for all parties.” Going forward, he thinks these will become much more normal.

Naturally, airlines “will keep the pressure on to reduce their costs.” They’ll expect greater efficiency at airports and “will require airports to really ask how they can minimise costs and risk attached with building connectivity.”

Route development: “traffic will surge in summer 2021 nearing 2019 levels”

ASM's MD takes us through what he thinks route development in 2021 will look like based on surveys with airlines (170+ replies) and over 50 meetings.

www.anna.aero

 

[Matt995]

Are they even bothered about so many missing routes as long as the airport is making a profit?

I seem to remember someone (possibly Paul Kehoe) saying that easyjet felt as if the Midlands market was covered by their existing bases and they saw no need for a direct presence. Wizz UK are looking like being the next big player so are BHX going to sit back and watch history repeat itself yet again?

Spot on Ray, the share holders, don't care what airlines or routes operate, they just want the profit, i'm sure they are thinking, lets increase costs at the airport because of the pandemic, so will make more money and re-coupe the lost earnings of this year.

Airlines like Wizz and Easyjet, maybe are happy to set up a base, base a number of aircraft, fly to more routes, but want a deal where they get 50% off landing fees, handling costs, parking costs etc. - You can just imagine the Birmingham share holder's reaction to this!! - Hence why we have no new routes or airlines for 2021.

Bristol, Cardiff, Doncaster, Luton, Manchester all now realise deals have to be done with airlines to attract passengers & new routes and hence have changed there strategy and its working, it might cost them more short term, but they can see the wider long term picture and the benefits it brings!

Airports are now no longer in the driving seat, its the Airlines, that now have the say, power and control where they fly to/from. Birmingham's management/share holders can't see this, they are still stuck in the 1960's! The airport has massive potential, when will they realise that!

 

[Jerry]

but want a deal where they get 50% off landing fees, handling costs, parking costs etc.

And the rest to be honest if i was the bosses of EZY and Wizz i'd be expecting that all for free and expect the airport to recoup the money through ancillary revenue of the passengers that my airline brings through the airport.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Since the loss of BA it kind of feels as if BHX has been suffering from an extended identity crisis. It has airlines such as Emirates, Qatar, Turkish etc that require a certain level of service, which inevitably costs, sharing the same space as Ryanair, easyjet and Wizz, airlines that want nothing more than the basics and a price to match. In fairness to BHX, without the financial backing of a government or a larger group it must be a very difficult balancing act.

That said, the low cost revolution is hardly new and it's been around 15 years or so since BA left so why has nobody been able to come up with a solution? Why is BHX one of the only major airports that cannot support a substantial and steadily growing base from one of them? Post BA MAN was in a very similar situation but it embraced the loco's and is now reaping the rewards. Even LGW has become a low cost haven so what makes BHX so unique? Of course they've dabbled over the years but easyjet and/or Ryanair were the real prize and aside from an FR promise of huge growth followed by the inevitable retreat, they've fallen short.

All signs point towards the loco airlines being the quickest to recover and they will be the ones driving the growth and bringing in the pax. With ancillary revenues now outdoing income from aviation you would have thought that they'd have been banging down doors to offer a deal, especially when airlines were offering up capacity. More passengers means more cash in the departure lounge tills and car parking machines which eventually filters back to the airport.

They have/had £160 million odd for the departure lounge extension and £500 million earmarked for that spruce up that they labelled a master plan. Would that kind of money stretch to a new terminal, either on the Elmdon site or replacing a demolished T2, something completely basic with only the bare necessities and 20 or so new stands? T1 could be kept as it is for the charters and those airlines that require a little more and are prepared to pay for it, after all it's not a bad terminal it's just way too small, and a bare bones basic structure could accommodate the loco's with a price tag to match?

Maybe I'm in the realms of fantasy now but having all those ex Flybe routes remain missing year after year is not something that I want to see.

 

[Coathanger16]

Since the loss of BA it kind of feels as if BHX has been suffering from an extended identity crisis. It has airlines such as Emirates, Qatar, Turkish etc that require a certain level of service, which inevitably costs, sharing the same space as Ryanair, easyjet and Wizz, airlines that want nothing more than the basics and a price to match. In fairness to BHX, without the financial backing of a government or a larger group it must be a very difficult balancing act.

That said, the low cost revolution is hardly new and it's been around 15 years or so since BA left so why has nobody been able to come up with a solution? Why is BHX one of the only major airports that cannot support a substantial and steadily growing base from one of them? Post BA MAN was in a very similar situation but it embraced the loco's and is now reaping the rewards. Even LGW has become a low cost haven so what makes BHX so unique? Of course they've dabbled over the years but easyjet and/or Ryanair were the real prize and aside from an FR promise of huge growth followed by the inevitable retreat, they've fallen short.

All signs point towards the loco airlines being the quickest to recover and they will be the ones driving the growth and bringing in the pax. With ancillary revenues now outdoing income from aviation you would have thought that they'd have been banging down doors to offer a deal, especially when airlines were offering up capacity. More passengers means more cash in the departure lounge tills and car parking machines which eventually filters back to the airport.

They have/had £160 million odd for the departure lounge extension and £500 million earmarked for that spruce up that they labelled a master plan. Would that kind of money stretch to a new terminal, either on the Elmdon site or replacing a demolished T2, something completely basic with only the bare necessities and 20 or so new stands? T1 could be kept as it is for the charters and those airlines that require a little more and are prepared to pay for it, after all it's not a bad terminal it's just way too small, and a bare bones basic structure could accommodate the loco's with a price tag to match?

Maybe I'm in the realms of fantasy now but having all those ex Flybe routes remain missing year after year is not something that I want to see.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say BHX has an identity crisis, but not so much that they don't know what they want to be, but they think they're something they're not.

It's clear to me that the airport feels they're in the same group of airports as LHR, LGW & MAN - back when the Davies Airport Commission was running they seriously considered with HS2 they were a viable alternative to a third runway at LHR - whereas the airlines think of BHX more like BRS, LPL & NCL. The airlines are happy to pay more for the former because its worth it. The problem is BHX is likely asking for more than the airlines think BHX is worth.

In the last few years we've lost Monarch and Thomas Cook, and Jet2 have done a stellar job of replacing that capacity. With the loss of Flybe and now Covid, I think BHX will be one of the last "top 10 airports" to recover to pre-Covid passenger levels.

There was some hope the new CEO, being ex-Luton, would have bought in some of the low cost, Orange & Purple luck he had there. I know these things take time, but so far there doesn't seem to have been much luck there.

Think the way BHX views investment in airport infrastructure is almost like a chicken and the egg. The airport doesn't want to invest £m's if airlines aren't going to show (cautious since that's exactly what happened with the runway extension), but if the airport isn't invested in, airlines won't come.

I really don't know what the solution is. It's easy to view things as an isolated bubble, but it really does feel like airports both larger and smaller are doing a far better job in attracting new airlines & bases, and investing in infrastructure.

Between the runway extension not bringing in the hoped for new airlines, the loss of quite frankly a huge number of airlines (Monarch, Thomas Cook, Flybe, American, United, Air Transat, Icelandair & Norwegian to name a few) and disasters like Primera Air, has BHX taken one too many beatings and lost all its self confidence?

I just hope that with the amount of growth that's going on in the City of Birmingham & the surrounding area, that'll bring more demand, and therefore airlines, to BHX.

 

[JENNYJET]

An excellent piece from Sir Raymond yet I feel the problems lie with the ownership and the CEO possibly being strangled or handcuffed by politicians watching out for the eco mobs and bad press.

I have not been through the airport for 20 yrs but it was obvious to me how Spartan the place was compared to the likes of LHR, MAN and almost every European terminal. No style, decor basic and facilities only if necessary and not for comfort of passengers.

Now, post Covid, is the time to completely refresh the entire airport to include the heritage part as a modernised but in character terminal for an elite airline on say a 50 yr lease and the current terminal completely overhauled to meet expected standards of international business travellers and only then can more top carriers be invited to create routes.

I like BHX because I grew up with it and developed a lifetime interest in the airport and aviation generally and long for the day when it gets interesting enough to go back as an enthusiastic watcher of exotic and interesting aircraft or at least something to match Manchester!

 

[HPsauce]

Canary Islands again removed from the 'Safe travel corridor '. Just when things were improving again!.

 

[IanFarquharson]

Canaries back on naughty step again so those flight will cease soon

 

[jfy1999]

A good and informative discussion has been going on but the topic has changed from aviation related matters to a more general discussion of our relationship with the EU, so I have moved the posts to the Brexit thread.

Life after Brexit, the Land of Milk, Honey and Utopia?

Well, well, I'll be dammed. Another nice article by the Yorkshire Evening Post. The must be something in the water?? As previously reported by @White Heather on here the airport has gone public regards its £5 million investment this winter gearing the existing terminal up for a better...

forums4airports.com

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there all, as I have said before, Birmingham Airport buses have always thought they were in the big league, sorry but having Emirates, Turkish Airlines Qatar, doesn't make you a big airport, Birmingham Airport has always been a medium sized regional airport and that is how it will stay, so until airport bosses wake up, Birmingham Airport will never ,ever compete with the big boys at all, do the airport management need to understand that now.

 

[JENNYJET]

My sentiments exactly and having lost the American carriers, again, relegates BHX to a city and beach low cost terminal until the global economies reawaken post Covid. Only then shall the subcontinent open up permitting Emirates to connect again with further flung destinations.

Just my own uneducated take on the subject without further comment on ownership arrangements.

 

[Matt995]

Birmingham Airport has always been a medium sized regional airport and that is how it will stay, so until airport bosses wake up, Birmingham Airport will never ,ever compete with the big boys at all, do the airport management need to understand that now.

Andrew, I think the Management at the airport are aware of this, but as far as I have been told and I am aware, there is not much they can do to entice new airlines with the sort of contracts the airlines are now demanding. The shareholders will not approve any of these "cheap" airline deals, because the major shareholder (the 7 West Midlands Councils than own 49%) relay on the airports income to keep the 7 councils afloat. They only care about the money/profit, they have no interest in what airlines or routes are served from the airport. This has been going on for decades, and is one of the reasons the airport hasn't grown as we would all have liked.

There is no easy answer to this issue, the only hope is that the airports 2 main shareholders (7 West Midlands councils, and the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan) either decide to sell their shares, or some very large company makes them an offer they can't refuse to buy up the shares and take over control of the airport for the right reasons.

However I just can't see the local councils selling their shares in the near future, so the airport will just "plod" along like it has been over the last few decades as a regional airport, with very limited expansion. Catch 22 situation springs to mind.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Andrew, I think the Management at the airport are aware of this, but as far as I have been told and I am aware, there is not much they can do to entice new airlines with the sort of contracts the airlines are now demanding. The shareholders will not approve any of these "cheap" airline deals, because the major shareholder (the 7 West Midlands Councils than own 49%) relay on the airports income to keep the 7 councils afloat. They only care about the money/profit, they have no interest in what airlines or routes are served from the airport. This has been going on for decades, and is one of the reasons the airport hasn't grown as we would all have liked.

There is no easy answer to this issue, the only hope is that the airports 2 main shareholders (7 West Midlands councils, and the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan) either decide to sell their shares, or some very large company makes them an offer they can't refuse to buy up the shares and take over control of the airport for the right reasons.

However I just can't see the local councils selling their shares in the near future, so the airport will just "plod" along like it has been over the last few decades as a regional airport, with very limited expansion. Catch 22 situation springs to mind.

Would not OTPP be a good bet to take over the airport entirely? They have been very good for Bristol Airport and certainly don't shirk on investment there.

I presume though that the consortium of local authorities won't sell its part of the business.

 

[Seasider]

If they are making plenty of money, they will not sell. The only glimmer of light I can see, is this year they will have lost money due to Covid. They may sell some of their shares to prop up Council Coffers.