Birmingham: General Airport Discussion & Updates

[Ray Finkle]

As the runway works are completed does anyone know if BHX is now able to accommodate the A340-600? There was some suggestion that fillets would be added to those tighter turns but I can't find anwhere that has the info on whether this was done or not? The NATS charts haven't been update since 8th Jan.

The reason I ask is I've just read that Mahan have taken 7 ex Virgin A346's and thought if they return to BHX after sanctions are lifted it might be nice to see one from time to time 🙂

 

[Ray Finkle]

There's an interesting article on page 35 of the link below. It's calling for any APD reductions in Scotland and/or Wales to be equalled for the English reasons. Mr K also says that all involved in the Hainan flights intend to build the service over the coming years to make it permanent.

http://edition.pagesuite-professional.c ... 64214d9df8

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and everyone, have I read correctly somewhere that airports subsidise airlines costs flying from Heathrow to Jfk, is this correct what I read, because if it is, I thought that airports are now there to run airlines routes, but aren't airports there to provide chargeable facilities and services for airlines and passengers to use and not pay for the running of the aircraft, I also thought that when you purchase your flight ticket, that pays for airline to use that airports facilities and services...please correct if I'm wrong at all...andyc

 

[jfy1999]

Whoever manages BHX's ground access has banned from the taxi rank all black cabs that are over 10 years old, saying they do not meet "standards". Drivers with old cabs will either have to buy new ones or not drive to the airport. Perhaps it would have been better if they had specified which standards are not being met because as far as I can see this is just outrageous. So many taxi drivers are OAPs who can't afford to spend £20,000 to £40,000 on a new cab.

 

[Ray Finkle]

We should be seeing the taxi rank move soon as it sits where the new hotel will be going. I agree though, as long as the cab is fully insured, MOT'd and kept to a reasonable standard inside then I don't see a problem with age.

In other news:

Birmingham Aiport Puts Forward Preferred New Flight Path Option to CAA

Following almost a yearlong trial of two flight paths from Birmingham Airport, the Airport has submitted its findings and preferred flight path option, known as ‘Option 6’, to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

The trial was carried out to ascertain the actual impact of the two potential flights paths and decide on a new southbound routeing that was required as a result of the runway extension, which opened last year. As the runway was extended further south, a change of aircraft routeing after take-off to the south ensued, which meant a change for some communities.

In line with the CAA’s future Airspace Strategy, both routes were designed using the latest RNAV1 criteria to allow aircraft to fly more precisely. Birmingham Airport is an early adopter of RNAV1, which is expected to be common practise across all UK airports by 2019.

The main objective of the trail was to assess the difference in the noise climate of two potential options – Option 5 and Option 6 - on the communities of Barston and Balsall Common, specifically whether or not the difference between both options was significant in each community. ‘Significant’ was defined as a difference of more than 3dB(A).

The trial concluded that there was no significant difference in the village of Barston of either route. However, there was a significant difference between Option 5 and Option 6 in Balsall Street East, with Option 6 having a perceivably lower impact in Balsall Street East than Option 5.

Additionally, aircraft on departure from Birmingham Airport are required to fly within a 3km wide Noise Preferential Route (NPR) until they reach 3000ft in height. Knowing that RNAV1 technology would mean aircraft would fly more precisely, the Airport also made a commitment to look at reducing the NPR to 2km from 3km. The trail gave the Airport evidence that aircraft flew ‘on-track’ in excess of 99% for both Option 5 and Option 6 using a revised 2km swathe. The Airport has also therefore recommended to the CAA that this remains a 2km NPR going forward.

David Winstanley, the Airport’s Chief Operating Officer, said:

“The trial was a sensible way to understand the actual noise profiles of both routes and give greater insight on the most appropriate option. Using this knowledge, we have been able to take a more informed decision and put forward our preference to the CAA for the permanent use of Option 6.

“We have been engaging with the local in Barston and Balsall Common throughout the trial and we would like to thank them for their time, feedback and willingness to work with us to get a better understanding of the community impacts.

“We are now being asked to provide advice to other UK airports that are embarking on the Airspace Change process and offer real evidence gained by the trial and communication with our neighbours.”

The CAA will now assess the Airport’s submission as part of the Airspace Change Process framework over the next 16 weeks. The CAA has the final decision over the new flight path.

This trial was part of its Airspace Change Proposal, which was first launch and consulted on in January 2013.

Full details of the trial and its findings can be found on the Airport’s website, http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk

https://birminghamairport.co.uk/media-i ... on-to-caa/

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and all,l was just looking at some facts and figures recently between Birmingham and Manchester. When you really look.and think about what Manchester Airport management have really done in the last thirty years, compared to what Birmingham Airport management, there is really at big difference between the two, and you've got to take your hat off to the management at Manchester Airport and say, well done to you, in what you have achieved within the last thirty years years, because they decided to extend their runway and put landing fees in place, to make Manchester Airport the success story that it really is. Where Birmingham Aimanagement, had the same chance just after the new current airport opened in 1984 to extend the runway and put the same sort of structure in place, but what did Birmingham do, well they just sat on the fence, put up their landing fees, with a take it or leave it approach, where as Manchester did the opposite, and has since been reeping all the benefits ever since,ie now handling 20 plus million passengers per year, where as Birmingham, just struggles by on under 10 million, still some 10 million plus less per year and increasing. So where Manchester is onwards and upwards, Birmingham just struggles by comparison... Andyc

 

[nwoody2001]

That’s a little unfair I think. At the end of the day, in the 70 and 80’s decisions were made that have influenced the airports that we have today, but then equally decisions were made in the same time that influence the cities we have today. Birmingham Airport and Manchester Airport and the cities themselves are very different beasts and really are not comparable.

Geographically, Manchester is in the north, far away from major rivals, Birmingham is in the midlands in in close proximity to competitors. Up until recently, Birmingham economic boom with in the 60’s before air travel was a big commodity, whereas Manchesters economic boom came much later in 90’s when air travel was much more readily available. Socially, Manchester has marketed itself as the capital of the north, the biggest in a very large part of the country, again this is something Birmingham would never be able to do.

Im not saying that Birmingham Airport hasn’t made mistakes in the past, it has. But equally, if we adopted the same approach as Manchester Airport in our past, I still suggest that Birmingham would not be the size of Manchester Airport. Our countries geography, social, political and economic make up would never be able to support it.

However, not wanting to dwell on the past, I do really think/feel hope we are now it a privital point I our history. BHX appears to have really found its place in the market, and know who they are and what they can offer, and with 2015 likely to be our best year ever with more new routes and airlines starting this year than in the last 10 years, I think these are exciting times for the airport….

 

[Jon Dempsey]

Things are improving Andy.

I used to have the choice of Gatwick or Manchester to go on hols to the Greek islands.

I notice Birmingham flights are now available to most of the destinations I used to go to.

I think Birmingham had a problem with negative leadership from the council, aka Dick Knowles and the then GM, Bob Taylor - it seemed they wanted praise for building the new terminal and sat on that. - just my opinion.

Now Birmingham is led by a commercially aware team, it would seem the route network is expanding.

I would hope the management would congratulate Manchester's success and attempt to emulate it.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I think most would agree that BHX saw a serious lack of investment for way too long, even Mr K has said that the runway should have been extended during the 90's and I think the pier was replaced 10 years too late. In fairness though it has to be said that this happened under previous ownership and the current lot have put their money where their mouth is. It's just a shame that they had to spend around £300 million just to get us where we should have been 20 years ago. Who can remember when the Air India 772's had to be towed halfway along the taxiway before it could start up or the PIA 747's having to shut down at the edge of the apron and be towed onto stand? 🙄

The landing fees are harder to call is it's commercially sensitive information and not publicly available. That said there have been many reports out where BHX has been suggested as one of the highest in Europe, the published fees are high and if used as the starting point of negotiations they could still be high, several airlines have apparently said BHX is too expensive and the Loco's have given us a wide berth except the basic core routes. No smoke without fire?

What concerns me is I cannot think of another airport that has routes come and go with such alarming regularity. Too many times an airline has come in promising the world then a year or two later they're gone. Getting a route in is only half of the battle, the other is to make it stay!

The question is why???

Is it because BHX can't make money? I don't believe for one second we can't sustain a flight to such a popular destination as Prague yet Mr K suggests airlines see our catchment area covered??? :s_dunno

Is it because BHX offer some very good intro fees yet when those come to an end the route quickly becomes economically unviable? If so things need to change and more support given.

I also believe BHX is potentially in a good place at the moment. Long haul is building steadily with the possibility of more in the future, both east and west, and short haul is pretty much a blank canvas. A committed new operator has so many opportunities to exploit but they need the help of the airport as well as us pax.

Norwegian have the potential to be huge at BHX and I think we're all desperately hoping they can fulfil that potential. Where will they be five years from now? Past history tells us they'll either be gone or will have expanded nicely but then quickly retreated back to just the basic core services.

Will it be any different this time???

I really hope so 🙂

 

[thunderchild]

Andrew I think your comments are a bit unfair and while I don't want to get drawn into a MAN vs BHX debate it has to be said that BHX (albeit a smaller airport) is miles ahead of MAN in terms of terminal organisation, infastructure and overall passenger experience.

The new development plans for MAN are brilliant but they should have come years ago - MAN is in desperate need of updating and modernising. The sight of a A380 gate added on to the end of a pier designed in the 60s speaks volumes!

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there thunderchild, the point that I was trying to put over regarding Manchester and Birmingham was, when Manchester took the initiative in the late eighties and early nineties to where they are presently with 20 plus million passengers that now fly out of Manchester every year, Birmingham didn't seize that opportunity then, but decided not to, until now after they have updated their infrastructure included now runway extension, with the investment that has been available from vfc investments, that should at the time when vfc bought into the airport knew that as the airport was in there portfolio of invested interest, should have made funds available to not just update the terminal and it's international pier, but also extending the runway at the same time which it didn't, now while Manchester is now on this massive multi billion pounds investments programme to update and expand its infrastructure, it's still going to take Birmingham more than 20 years plus to just scratch to where Manchester is at present with its passenger numbers, also I want Birmingham Airport to be up,there competing with the big boys like, heathrow, Gatwick, Charles De gaul, Hartfield Jackson, jfk, but to name just a few..this is where Birmingham Airport needs to be and not struggling to get over the ten million plus mark, if Luton and Edinburgh can achieve this, and they are smaller airports, with runways not as long as Birminghams is....andyc

 

[jfy1999]

Just about every BHX follower could second that. What BHX needs is a based scheduled airline or two with a strong and consistent European network. Flybe, Monarch and Ryanair have all failed to step up to the plate.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I'd agree also. About now we should be seeing plans for the demolition of T2 to be replaced with a nice new terminal and another pier, yet we've only just caught up with the rest, who will now pull away again.

That's in the past though and what's done cannot be changed. It was different owners who failed to invest but the current lot have got us to where we are now. There is still plenty of capacity to grow and with a few tweaks here and extensions there I'm sure we could see another 5 mppa pass through what we already have. That's up to the management though and I agree that we need a strong based airline committed to growth in conjunction with, and having the full support of, the airport.

With regards to the master plan I believe it is being updated. We've heard snippets such as a possible new cargo centre on the Elmdon site and we've seen the picture of the walkway alongside the railway but we'll have to see what comes out.

From the airport website:

Updating the Master Plan

As the primary international gateway to the region, the Airport must also support the Midlands’ as a World Class destination and Birmingham’s ambitions to be a truly Global City. The Airport Master Plan is now 7 years old and is due to be updated to reflect current government policy and any other change in material circumstances since its publication in 2007.

We have been awaiting the outcome of the Airports Commission before doing this but now that Birmingham Airport has not been shortlisted for a potential second runway we will soon be consulting the community on an updated Master Plan so that their views can be taken into account when preparing the new plan.

https://birminghamairport.co.uk/about-u ... ster-plan/

 

[Ray Finkle]

There has been some discussion on an alternative forum to this one about the new master plan. One forumer has claimed to have a copy of an amended drawing and it includes, amongst other things, a 'low cost pier' extending from the shorter pier already in place and dog legging around following the railway line. The same poster also says that when BHX have a firm commitment of a base from someone such as Norwegian or Easy it will be built. I have no reason to doubt this posters credibility as they do not seem the sort to just make stuff up.

If true it could represent a big turning point for BHX. Not only are they looking for a base big enough to warrant another pier but they are prepared to build one around the carrier in question.

I wondered if it was the walkway we saw in the picture released a while ago, I've re-posted it below. It shows a new walkway with 8 stands which would have to be able to accomodate at least 738/A320 sized aircraft.

I await more details with interest 🙂

 

[Brum X]

Thanks for sharing, that looks really exciting and they have added a bit to the old T2 too, looks really good. And its true, you can polish a turd if it is done right.

After MAN launched there plan this week, it would be wise for BHX to also get off the mark with this and to not be left behind again like we have in the past. And you would think that if such a facility was going to be built for an airline, that airline will be falling over themselves to be at BHX. Then again would other lo cost airlines such as Ryanair also transfer over to this new lo cost pier ????


Interesting stuff.

 

[Brum X]

Also building this new pier will not cause much disruption as it is out of the way from the normal airport operations.

 

[Ray Finkle]

If it's being built purely with low cost flights in mind then I imagine it will be very basic. Not needing airbridges will reduce costs dramatically though.

I'm not convinced about Eurohub but if it's done well then I'm sure it would be okay. My preference would be to replace it though.

I'd love to see a long glass terminal extending southwards as far as the car park with another pier behind it. If the parallel taxiway was made full length it would give more apron space allowing it to extend even further. I'd also like to see a new pier slightly further south to allow double push back and taxi lanes into the cul-de-sac to improve the flow.

Can't wait to hear something official to see what they have planned 🙂

 

[Ray Finkle]

Also looking at that picture there seems to be two narrow body aircraft parked on remote stands at the end of the current pier. That taxiway isn't the widest as it is so that won't help at all, unless they're planning on cutting the grass back.

 

[thunderchild]

That will be one heck of a long walk if your plane is on the last stand of the new pier!

Whatever happened to the plans to build a new pier where the remote stands are? I believe it was to have an underground walkway from the main terminal building.

 

[Brum X]

That will be one heck of a long walk if your plane is on the last stand of the new pier!

Whatever happened to the plans to build a new pier where the remote stands are? I believe it was to have an underground walkway from the main terminal building.

Palma De Mallorca has some of the longest walkways ever. Oh gosh, they are long.