KLM

[TheLocalYokel]

Both this morning's return flight, and the one this teatime are cancelled according to BBC Radio Leeds this morning. I guess it's either the strong winds we had previously, or fog, and that they have reduced flow at AMS like they do at LHR? Shame they couldn't send us something bigger to put both loads on the one aircraft at lunchtime!

Lots of smaller UK airports as well as bigger ones were affected today. BRS lost three of its four rotations and CWL lost two of its three. I suppose KLM didn't have enough larger aircraft available to fill in these gaps assuming they ever gave it any thought. I believe that AMS flights to/from other countries were also cancelled.

 

[oldendays]

A potential opportunity for Jet2 to coin it in on the LS205 this evening. I don't know if this happened.

 

[White Heather]

Just read elsewhere that KLM's flights from AMS to DUB (currently 4 per day, 3 of which are operated by KLM Mainline on 737s) are increasing to 5 per day but all using E195s operated by Stobart. That frees up a mainline 737. Wouldn't it be nice if those 3 737 rotations were re-directed to LBA instead? There are no spare slots at AMS apparently so we have been unable to increase our capacity by having the 4th rotation (although it seems Dublin is getting one extra rotation somehow), but this would enable our route to increase capacity instantly. Unlikely I know but a girl can dream...……….

 

[Gray Ham]

I fear it may well just be a pipedream as weekly capacity will actually be slightly reduced over the summer timetable because of the overnighter being a E175 and a delay of a few weeks (until mid May) before the third Sat rotation is recommenced.

 

[White Heather]

I fear it may well just be a pipedream as weekly capacity will actually be slightly reduced over the summer timetable because of the overnighter being a E175 and a delay of a few weeks (until mid May) before the third Sat rotation is recommenced.

As things stand yes, but LBA have been talking to KLM for some time about ways to increase the capacity at LBA, given most flights are pretty well full or close to full. As they couldn't get the 4th rotation back due to slot constraints at AMS, an upgrade to the 737 and KLM Mainline is the only way to increase seat capacity on the route to meet the obvious demand. That wasn't an option either, so my only point was that this change on the Dublin route frees up a 737 for 3 round trips a day, exactly what LBA needs. Unlikely I know but just occasionally such things happen.

 

[oldendays]

A DC9-30 would be nice.

 

[Jerry]

They might have got the 5th slot for Dublin from Southampton. As for the 737s LBA is in doubt in competition with a lot of airport's lobbying for their flights to be upgraded.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

As things stand yes, but LBA have been talking to KLM for some time about ways to increase the capacity at LBA, given most flights are pretty well full or close to full. As they couldn't get the 4th rotation back due to slot constraints at AMS, an upgrade to the 737 and KLM Mainline is the only way to increase seat capacity on the route to meet the obvious demand. That wasn't an option either, so my only point was that this change on the Dublin route frees up a 737 for 3 round trips a day, exactly what LBA needs. Unlikely I know but just occasionally such things happen.

I flew out to AMS on my way to Norway last month and I would suggest our early morning flight was virtually full, same on the return a few days later in the afternoon.

 

[louis_walton]

Jet2 have started to use the 800 much more than the 300 though now which may be putting them off.

 

[White Heather]

The airports own stats suggest that loadings are high and they have said several times that the opportunity is there for KLM to upgrade the route, particularly given the reduction in BA flights down to LHR. I seem to recall that NCL was upgraded to KLM mainline and that might have been achieved by our very own CEO at LBA when he was there, so I would never put it past him to do it again if that is the case, provided the 737s are available. I may be wrong on that, but I seem to recall seeing a 737 photo on the ground at NCL. I am sure someone will be able to confirm one way or t'other.

 

[White Heather]

Jet2 have started to use the 800 much more than the 300 though now which may be putting them off.

Yes but Jet2 passengers are not interlining on long haul, whereas many of the KLM (probably the vast majority) are doing just that, in which case the Jet2 operation is of less use. I think Jet2 are aiming more for the leisure market and occasional business users heading to Amsterdam/Holland, rather than those transferring to other flights, long haul or otherwise?

 

[Jerry]

I may be wrong on that, but I seem to recall seeing a 737 photo on the ground at NCL. I am sure someone will be able to confirm one way or t'other.

Newcastle had 2 737 flights today and 2 E190. I think it goes to 3 737 and 1 E jet in the summer.

Jet2 have started to use the 800 much more than the 300 though now which may be putting them off.

KLM won't even be concerned about Jet2. Their main concern is connections onto their long and short haul routes. Jet2 will be leisure and their own city break holidays.

 

[Severn]

From the UK, 26 airports have direct flights to AMS every week.
KLM fly from 16 of these airports.

Given the amount of data for all 26 airports, I thought I'd just post a table that shows LBA in comparison to other airports in England (not including London).
(Happy to post elsewhere the whole breakdown for the UK if anyones interested).

The table below show data for August 2019:
View attachment 12216

So as you can see from above table, LBA isn't underperforming by any means!

There has been a lot of talk on here regarding why KLM don't upgrade the LBA departures to larger aircraft. Well, for consideration, below is a comparison of weekly departing seats if LBA was upgraded from the current 21x weekly E190, to say 21x B737 departures:

Seats - Aircraft operated
2,100 - 21x E190
2,324 - 14x E190, 7x B737
2,548 - 7x E190, 14x B737
2,772 - 21x B737

Between 21x weekly E190 and 21x weekly B737, there is only an extra 672 departing seats per week, which equates to around 35,000 seats per year. That isn't a huge amount of seats from the airline or airports point of view, and when KLM has so many departure points across Europe, you can understand why LBA might not be the next airport in its network to see an upgrade.

Something else to consider is that KLM will look to upgrade the airports that make them the most money... which will be more likely on routes that have no other competition, NWI and NCL are a good example above.

 

[Finger66]

Equally you could argue that increasing capacity could potentially pull seats from the competition, even possibly then removing the competition. Plus extra capacity could feed on to the rest of the network. I am not saying this is How KLM are, or should be, thinking. Just merely pointing out the 2 sides to the discussion. They are though an airline who are fairly committed to LBA and I think we were one of the earlier UK regionals to get the fokkers replaced by embraers

 

[lbaspotter]

Virgin Atlantic has today signed a wide-ranging codeshare agreement with Air France-KLM covering their transatlantic services. It doesn't include any Flybe (Connet Airways) routes as yet, but it dose include KLM's Leeds/Bradford - Amsterdam service.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news/virgin-atlantic-air-france-and-klm-launch-codeshare-partnership

So in theory you can now book flights from Leeds/Bradford to all the North American destinations that KLM serve from Amsterdam using Virgin Atlantic's website https://www.virginatlantic.com/

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Not a good time for any agreement as the Air France-KLM as this alliance in trouble.
The Dutch governments buying of 14% of the company to match the French governments 14% holding which was supposed to be halved between the two countries, has resulted in the French seeing it as a "declaration of war" and Berlin seeing it as driving coach and horses through E.U. state aid regulations.
With the WTO about to announce the fine to Airbus for their illegal $20 billion of E.U. state aid, after Boeing have won the case after appeal, not a good time to have another state aid issue.
Its starting to make more sense why Boeing moved to the u.k. after we voted to leave the e.u.

 

[Jerry]

Not a good time for any agreement as the Air France-KLM as this alliance in trouble.

The Dutch government already owned 6.9% of KLM. They bought the 12% of the AF/KLM group and intend to make it 14% to make sure that the AF/KLM CEO doesn't siphon money away from KLM to Air France because well basically Air France is a basket case of an airline at the moment. They did it to protect what they see as a national asset and I personally applaud them for that.

 

[KARFA]

Not really a surprise. KL have always been cheaper to MAN than LBA. This is due to the substantial competition they have on the route from MAN which holds prices down, whereas at LBA they only have LS as part time competition.

 

[Jerry]

And that's why they go over to MAN.

Also at LBA there focus would be on connecting traffic rather than point 2 point.

 

[Finger66]

There are so not as many seats to fill out of LBA in their own right too. They basically fill the flights they have at the fares they charge. Good business sense from where I am stood