KLM

[mdobuk21]

And just to think before COVID struck we had just started with 737s!

 

[LBA4EVER]

If it is true, Eastern is not great, which would be a major disappointment, and MAN all the while welcomes KLM's brand new A321neo…

I agree its just not on! Totally crazy how we have less frequency and seats than many smaller uk airports, we should be looking at at least 2x 737 ops and a emb daily but instead receive a mix of non klm livery 175 and 195s with poorer reliability! There is no consistency, if you want to sell your product stop swapping it for non klm metal!

 

[HX3]

Perhaps the issue is a lack of competition. At MAN there are multiple flag carriers, so if KLM offered an inadequate product, punters would just go elsewhere. LBA need the likes of Lufthansa, BA, SAS to offer service to their hubs and then KLM would increase capacity (miraculously) and perhaps on better own metal. Maybe with the new terminal extension, we may see some progress hub wise?

 

[Matt995]

I agree its just not on! Totally crazy how we have less frequency and seats than many smaller uk airports, we should be looking at at least 2x 737 ops and a emb daily but instead receive a mix of non klm livery 175 and 195s with poorer reliability! There is no consistency, if you want to sell your product stop swapping it for non klm metal!

they dont have enough 737s left in their fleet to operate your flights, thay are not going to take them from the likes of LHR, MAN, BHX, GLA etc to operate LBA flights.

 

[pug]

If it is true, Eastern is not great, which would be a major disappointment, and MAN all the while welcomes KLM's brand new A321neo…

At the moment, but they have been looking for a new niche (purpose?) for years now. This could be it.

I think we’d all prefer it if KLC had carried on as was, but it’s becoming increasingly obvious that they’re not going to for whatever reason, better therefore that the route is continued than lost completely.

I know it would be good to have larger aircraft on the route, but I don’t think the MAN service is comparable. That said, Eastern are doing at least one daily rotation into MAN so they aren’t completely immune to it.

I stand by what I said before. It might be wishful thinking but if KLM get some ownership then it could work out quite nicely for all concerned. Eastern is made up of good people who want it to work and I think they deserve some stability now after years of an apparently directionless and short term opportunistic operating ethos.

 

[LBA4EVER]

they dont have enough 737s left in their fleet to operate your flights, thay are not going to take them from the likes of LHR, MAN, BHX, GLA etc to operate LBA flights.

B737s were scheduled before covid hit. If the likes of MAN are receiving A321s then unless there removing them from the fleet it frees up some 737s.

 

[pug]

B737s were scheduled before covid hit. If the likes of MAN are receiving A321s then unless there removing them from the fleet it frees up some 737s.

This was nearly 5 years ago. Things change and move on so what was promising in 2019 will be all but forgotten about now.

 

[mullion]

I thought that the Boeings days are numbered as eventually Airbuses replace them

 

[lbaspotter]

Well as things stand KLM City Hoppers LBA-AMS route is planned to be operated by its own metal and have a capacity increase next summer 2025. With the Embraer 190-E2’s appearing along with all other flights operated by the Embraer 190’s. I for one hope it stays this way.

God help Eastern Airways if the screw this deal up with KLM. Otherwise it could be the end for them.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Well as things stand KLM City Hoppers LBA-AMS route is planned to be operated by its own metal and have a capacity increase next summer 2025. With the Embraer 190-E2’s appearing along with all other flights operated by the Embraer 190’s. I for one hope it stays this way.

God help Eastern Airways if the screw this deal up with KLM. Otherwise it could be the end for them.

Didn't WH comment after the ACC that the airport werent aware of any migration to Eastern?

 

[Finger66]

I believe that was the case yesterday. But it does look like KLCH regional ops are all heading the way of Eastern (or a new KLMUK) so I suppose it's just where LBA sits on the transition list as to how soon anything is notified/informed. Think this now seems a case of when rather than if unfortunately

 

[Len Fish]

I just don’t get it. Using German Airways and Eastern at a time of Aircraft/pilot shortage made sense as a temporary measure but using Eastern permanently (in whatever guise) just doesn’t add up. The only reason I can think of is that it must work out cheaper given the cost savings KLM are looking for but how is a mystery to me.

 

[pug]

I just don’t get it. Using German Airways and Eastern at a time of Aircraft/pilot shortage made sense as a temporary measure but using Eastern permanently (in whatever guise) just doesn’t add up. The only reason I can think of is that it must work out cheaper given the cost savings KLM are looking for but how is a mystery to me.

I think we need to consider the wider aspects of this. KLM are not performing well financially. They may have mooted putting more capacity into LBA pre-covid but lots has changed since then. They are under pressure from Government in Netherlands over slot restrictions at AMS, they are struggling with crewing which has a long lead in time due training, they are having tech issues with their aircraft. So actually when they binned off KLM UK and incorporated everything into KLC it was probably the right operating environment to do so. Now, with all the issues both short and long term, running these routes probably isn’t fitting in their core business strategy.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Be very careful what you wish for. The fact that Eastern have stepped in will hopefully mean there aren’t route cut backs! Because the way things have been going that’s the only result I could have envisaged and that would be horrid for U.K. global connectivity since BA are happy to let people drive to LHR and there is no other airline in Europe operating such a comprehensive and hassle free hub and spoke network in such a short flying time from U.K.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I think we need to consider the wider aspects of this. KLM are not performing well financially. They may have mooted putting more capacity into LBA pre-covid but lots has changed since then. They are under pressure from Government in Netherlands over slot restrictions at AMS, they are struggling with crewing which has a long lead in time due training, they are having tech issues with their aircraft. So actually when they binned off KLM UK and incorporated everything into KLC it was probably the right operating environment to do so. Now, with all the issues both short and long term, running these routes probably isn’t fitting in their core business strategy.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Be very careful what you wish for. The fact that Eastern have stepped in will hopefully mean there aren’t route cut backs! Because the way things have been going that’s the only result I could have envisaged and that would be horrid for U.K. global connectivity since BA are happy to let people drive to LHR and there is no other airline in Europe operating such a comprehensive and hassle free hub and spoke network in such a short flying time from U.K.

It may be that by using a sub contractor the Eastern flights arent counted towards KLM's quota.

 

[Seasider]

It may be that by using a sub contractor the Eastern flights arent counted towards KLM's quota.

I believe that the Dutch Government are trying to impose a cap on total number of flights and it will affect all airlines.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I believe that the Dutch Government are trying to impose a cap on total number of flights and it will affect all airlines.

Im not sure how the quota will be structured, so I would say this could be a factor.

 

[White Heather]

Didn't WH comment after the ACC that the airport werent aware of any migration to Eastern?

Yes, WH did say that. LBA management were specifically asked if Eastern were to replace KLM City hopper and they said not to their knowledge as neither KLM nor Eastern had.infiemed them of any intention to change.

But, that was then......and things may, or may not, have changed in the last 6 weeks.

.

 

[Finger66]

I think it is a fair point that @pug made though re better to have T3 op for KL if the alternative is no KL service at all, although I don't believe it would have come to that. Is it time to cut T3 a bit of slack and give them a chance to get this whole thing right, in whatever guise it takes in the longer term. And that is all still assuming we are going to have T3/KL ops at LBA. Could we just be in for something better from KL themselves once the new Terminal is fully open? Next summer does already appear to be the case and I suspect we are high up on the LF list of their regional routes

 

[pug]

I think it is a fair point that @pug made though re better to have T3 op for KL if the alternative is no KL service at all, although I don't believe it would have come to that. Is it time to cut T3 a bit of slack and give them a chance to get this whole thing right, in whatever guise it takes in the longer term. And that is all still assuming we are going to have T3/KL ops at LBA. Could we just be in for something better from KL themselves once the new Terminal is fully open? Next summer does already appear to be the case and I suspect we are high up on the LF list of their regional routes

It’s all about prioritisation though, LBA will be competing with every other European airport that doesn’t currently have a larger aircraft employed on their AMS connection with KLM. Not suggesting LBA won’t be up there with the front runners because I haven’t got a clue, but realistically if they’re reducing their U.K. ops in-house then it would probably make more sense to shift the lot over to T3 and hopefully buy into T3 to provide some accountability.

Bottom line is, they’re either aware of T3’s poor track record of late and don’t care because the alternative is to cut and run. Or they see some potential that we forumers don’t see and they are happy to have them operate on their behalf. If it’s a cut and run then I would be very concerned about the future of most routes they currently operate!

 

[SierraHotel]

Sceptical about how significant the terminal facilities are/will be in respect of future KL ops at LBA. However, I agree that T3 should indeed be given the benefit of the doubt in this situation. I note BRS have been seeing the use of T3 E170s on some of their AMS rotations.