KLM

[whoshotjimmi]

Cutting the night stopper would IMHO be a bit of a blow - we would lose a lot of early connections outbound and late connections inbound. I would be going over the hills if that happened.

So, to recap, when KLM close their crew base at Leeds, you will no longer use Leeds to connect to Amsterdam because of a theoretical loss of an early morning rotation. However, you will use Manchester instead whose crew base has ALREADY been closed and is crewed from the Leeds base because somehow their overnight stopping aircraft would be unaffected when the Leeds crew base eventually closes.

I think a little bit of perspective is needed here.

I think Lbaspotter has it dead on. To lose an overnight stopping aircraft at all of their UK destinations would lose an enormous amount of business and it is far more likely that KLM will simply overnight their crew in local hotels in the same way that many other airlines operating hub and spoke do.

 

[White Heather]

Absolutely agree whoshotjimmi. No way will KLM drop their early departure out of Leeds which feeds a lot of their long haul routes. If they did, and operated the route with an AMS based aircraft, the first arrival into AMS would not be early enough to connect with much and they would simply throw away years of building on the route. Jet2 and KLM are serving a different market on the route.

 

[yorkie40]

Don't all airline crew stay in hotels or I'm I missing something here? What exactly is a crew base?

 

[cmj]

So, to recap, when KLM close their crew base at Leeds, you will no longer use Leeds to connect to Amsterdam because of a theoretical loss of an early morning rotation. However, you will use Manchester instead whose crew base has ALREADY been closed and is crewed from the Leeds base because somehow their overnight stopping aircraft would be unaffected when the Leeds crew base eventually closes.

I think a little bit of perspective is needed here.

I think Lbaspotter has it dead on. To lose an overnight stopping aircraft at all of their UK destinations would lose an enormous amount of business and it is far more likely that KLM will simply overnight their crew in local hotels in the same way that many other airlines operating hub and spoke do.

To clarify a bit. As a punter, the crew being Leeds / UK based or Amsterdam based and staying in a hotel makes no difference to me. Obviously the loss of UK jobs isn't good, but that doesn't affect the flight.

If they drop the early / late rotation I will no longer use Leeds to connect in Amsterdam because it's the one I use, pretty much always coming back as it gives most of a day away before flying into AMS to connect to LBA. I do sometimes use the early morning out, but less often.

My point about Manchester is that without the night stopper in Leeds, I couldn't do that. Unless BA introduce one, or another airline comes in.

I personally doubt KLM will drop the night stopper. They overnight crews all over the place (I have often been in the same hotel as them) so I don't see why they wouldn't do that in Leeds too, however the post I was replying to earlier seemed to say they could upgrade to 737s and drop it the night stopper - unless I got the wrong end of the stick (blame baby-induced sleep deprivation)

 

[GolfFox]

I use the early AMS departure and the vast majority of Pax are connecting onwards. They will not throw that business away by withdrawing the night stopper.

 

[Seasider]

Unless Air France do a "nightstopper"

 

[GolfFox]

In those circumstances maybe there could be a 'master strategy' as they both piddle in the same potty! My personal opinion/experience is that AMS is a much better transit experience than CDG!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I wouldn't mind a late night departure to AMS on the return from the evening AMS to LBA flight.

I avoid using the morning flight to connect to long hauls from Schiphol because of experience getting horribly delayed at security going across the airport between flights, but if I could get a flight after work and then a morning flight the next day I would probably go for that, there are some cheap airport hotels at Schiphol.

 

[imagineif]

Just to clarify -

There is no indication at all that these UK crew base closures will affect any rotations - Leeds is not loosing its night stop aircraft. The early departures (which KLM has from several UK airports) its far too lucrative.

Manchester has had a 737 night stop for some years now, with Dutch crew stopping in a hotel - that is eventually what will happen at all UK stations with a night stop, Dutch crew in hotels. UK crew only fly the Ejets & Fokker so when a 737 comes along to a UK crew base - all the crew at that base end up as passengers to Amsterdam before they can work.

It won't really be noticed much in the short term but by this time next year, Norwich passengers will notice the flights are mostly operated by Dutch crew as the Norwich crew base is closed... followed by Humberside then Leeds.

KLM wants the UK crew who are still active at these bases to commute to Amsterdam in their own time and pay for hotels in Amsterdam either side of a duty if they wish to stay employed by KLM - even when Embraer aircraft are continuing to fly in and out of their local airport.

It is seen as a necessary process of simplification as the AFKL group continues to struggle.

There are crew at KLM still from Air UK days so it is the end of an era when the Leeds crew base closes.

 

[imagineif]

KLM are to bring back the 4th rotation on the AMS-LBA route next summer according to current timetables. This is based on good loads and more connectivity.

There will be flights leaving for Amsterdam at 0620/0910/1325/1730

All Embraer 190 so 400 seats a day

As per this summer, the lunch time flight is non op on Sat/Sun and the 0910 departure is replaced by a 1015 departure with the flight number KL1542.

 

[737A319]

KLM are to bring back the 4th rotation on the AMS-LBA route next summer according to current timetables. This is based on good loads and more connectivity.

There will be flights leaving for Amsterdam at 0620/0910/1325/1730

All Embraer 190 so 400 seats a day

As per this summer, the lunch time flight is non op on Sat/Sun and the 0910 departure is replaced by a 1015 departure with the flight number KL1542.

Will they be sending any Fokker 70's? I think KLM Cityhopper had a few Fokker 70's for summer 2016, so I'd love to see them return for 2017, even though they are being phased out by KLM before they retire.

 

[imagineif]

There is nothing in the timetable for Fokker 70 at the moment and they will be replaced at the rate of almost 1 per month from the start of next year with final flights expected October at the latest. Still, there may be a change in the timetables - as was the case this year, over the coming months it's common to see alterations and equipment changes based on demand and fleet availability.

 

[737A319]

There is nothing in the timetable for Fokker 70 at the moment and they will be replaced at the rate of almost 1 per month from the start of next year with final flights expected October at the latest. Still, there may be a change in the timetables - as was the case this year, over the coming months it's common to see alterations and equipment changes based on demand and fleet availability.

I really hope we get to see some Fokker 70's. If there's a change then please post on here. Thanks.

 

[cmj]

Is anything booked for E175, or is it all E190?

 

[imagineif]

There is nothing planned on the E175 into LBA at the moment, the E175 is seen as a replacement for the FK70 but its fleeted with the E190 so KLM has already rotated aircraft lines on several occasions on the day - sending an E175 on a E190 route with lower passenger figures for example or if an E190 is running late. LBA saw the E175 night stop just last week by chance.

 

[imagineif]

Fog season approaching, the KLM E190's are able to do an auto-land at LBA now again.. under 300m if the runway is dry. That's the word anyway...I guess we will discover the reality.

 

[twevsmiff]

There is nothing planned on the E175 into LBA at the moment, the E175 is seen as a replacement for the FK70 but its fleeted with the E190 so KLM has already rotated aircraft lines on several occasions on the day - sending an E175 on a E190 route with lower passenger figures for example or if an E190 is running late. LBA saw the E175 night stop just last week by chance.

E.175 PH-EXH operated yesterday's lunchtime flight

 

[a300boy]

So as it must be lighter can an E170 autoland on our aircraft carrier runway I wonder.

 

[tleeds]

One of the last few Fokker 70's was in last week in case you missed it! With it not night-stopping for obvious reasons it normally operates the afternoon services if there are delays within the network!

In case you didn't know it's actually very simple to just operate the Fokker into Leeds as all the crews that were Fokker trained are all Embraer qualified too so it really doesn't make any difference to them..

 

[ethanegcc]

Hi,
I am a rare user of the Leeds forum as I live in Staffordshire Moorlands and, clearly by my username, a supporter of MAN, but I have used LBA and it is a pleasant airport to fly from, serving an outstanding part of the country and one I would very much like to see grow. Is LBA pretty much an all E190 destination now with KLM? Are there any scheduled exceptions (obviously with such a large fleet, they could easily substitute but in general)?

Also, what are the loads like for KLM's AMS-LBA-AMS flights - does anyone have that information?

Thanks!