Beijing Capital Airlines

[hay677]

Am I right in thinking that it is 2 years since the £40m runway extension opened and there has not been a single scheduled flight that needed it? If so Mr Keyoe must be desperate for someone to sign up.

 

[Brum X]

Am I right in thinking that it is 2 years since the £40m runway extension opened and there has not been a single scheduled flight that needed it? If so Mr Keyoe must be desperate for someone to sign up.

The runway extension was a long term investment which if in 5 years, there is nobody at BHX needing this extension then it may have been a waste of money. 2 years, we can still give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Ray Finkle]

The more I think about it the more I reckon that we may have dodged a bullet.

HNA will be putting all of their efforts into their new MAN route (rightly so as I would want the same commitment if it was BHX), so opening up a competing route within weeks would be hugely counter productive. I still fear that we could have seen Beijing Capital doing once weekly flights for 6 weeks of the year meaning no other airline could offer anything more beneficial.

If HNA now have the rights to BHX-PEK then it's one more hoop for another potential to jump through but I imagine it will be easier to transfer if the route is not being used.

I think they will still be after China but I hope that they take their time and get a 'proper' year round service at a decent frequency (at least 3/4x weekly). If that means waiting another 2-3 years then I am fine with that, it will be worth the wait.

In the meantime there is plenty more to concentrate on

 

[JENNYJET]

I read somewhere that Hainan and Capital airlines are the same family and Caissa are the parents! Is it likely that there could be fleet overstretched hence withdrawal of BHX services for this year pending additional aircraft for next year?

It could be as innocent as that!!

 

[jfy1999]

Am I right in thinking that it is 2 years since the £40m runway extension opened and there has not been a single scheduled flight that needed it? If so Mr Keyoe must be desperate for someone to sign up.

Thomas Cook need the extension to fly their A321s non-stop to Banjul. The extension wasn't just designed with long haul in mind—it was also about medium haul, as the 757 will be phased out of service over the next 5 years.

The extension will be needed if aircraft like the 737 MAX and A321neo start flying longer routes, although hopefully larger aircraft will replace the 757. It also enables aircraft to take off on lower power settings and save fuel (and thus money), perfect for LCC's like Ryanair.

We've also seen on videos that the A380 sometimes takes the full length of the runway to come to a stop.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

It also enables aircraft to take off on lower power settings and save fuel (and thus money)

An excellent point. Many years ago, I flew with Air New Zealand on a B747-400 from Heathrow. I requested a cockpit visit (back in the days when it was allowed), and one of the questions I put to the pilot was about take off performance. He replied that with Heathrow's long runway, the B747-400 only required 75% power, for the flight to LAX. This reduced fuel burn, emissions, noise and engine wear.

I also recall Airtours MD-80's flying the longer routes from BHX often needed a fuel stop on route because they couldn't achieve that range from BHX's then shorter runway.

We've also seen on videos that the A380 sometimes takes the full length of the runway to come to a stop.

I read a very interesting article a while back, regarding Emirates A380 operations. It said that every airport that Emirates operate the A380 to, is stored in a databank on each aircraft. On approach, the data for the relevant airport is called up and the FMC takes into account aircraft weight, weather conditions etc. The system will decide the optimum turn off point on the runway and on landing apply the optimum amount of reverse thrust and braking to achieve that turn off. The pilot can even tell ATC before he lands which turn off the aircraft will use.

So perhaps on the days that the A380 rolls to the end, it's landing heavier i.e. more passengers.

Kevin

 

[hay677]

I thought that the extension was sold to the press and public on the basis of enabling long haul services not then possible.

I don't know any more whats going on behind the scenes than anyone else on the internet but the longer it goes without any headline sertvices that need the extension the more pressure must pile up on the bosses who spent a fortune specifically for those flights in the first place. They are probably fuming at the chinese.

Talking of the A380 I have been over there a couple of times to see it take off and have been disappointed both times that it didnt even bother to taxi to the end of the runway where I was waiting!

 

[BHXsupporter]

I see the money as being invested well. We have to forget about the dithering strategy (although I am sympathetic to the ex-heads of BHX because of their being strung along by London Airways); we are here now, with a 3k runway in a temperate climate so must be equivalent to a much longer strip in a hot/high airport. I am sure it will be used and momentum is always important. The wonderful increases at BHX in the past 18 months will surely lead to the apparently best marketing strategy of whispered recommendation across the region from satisfied airport users, increased demands, market research and then the coin may be flipped and many will ever wonder why they struggled along motorways to reach ludicrously distant London airports or Manchester..

 

[richard winterbourn]

There seems little doubt to me that BHX could not achieve a higher profile as a world class airport with media nay-sayers continuing to make reference to the fact that its runway was 'too short' for trans-continental flight.

By virtue of the extension - and yes it was hugely expensive - that criticism has been well and truly buried. BHX is now ready and able to cater for flights to anywhere - and the past 12 months has shown that this is beginning to happen.

Rome wasn't built in a day - keep the faith...

 

[Ray Finkle]

Extending the runway was only the first step, the next is to persuade airlines to come here.

With Birmingham not having the capability in the past for flights of say, 10+ hours or so, we're a totally unknown prospect, with no data to present to potential airlines other than that of people connecting. Obviously there is a huge element that use London but that is alot harder to prove. When we're talking about flights to the large Asian hubs you immediately lose connecting passengers heading to the Indian Sub Continent and are relying on just Asia and Australia.

I get the feeling that we just need to persuade one and, if it works, more will follow. Look at what extra competition has done for other markets. With the situation at LHR hopefully Birmingham can capitalize as airlines look elsewhere for extra UK capacity, one or two extra airlines from there could make a huge difference for us.

In the short term I think holiday flights to Las Vegas and Vancouver are probably the most likely.

To climb to highest mountain you must first make small steps

 

[hay677]

I get the feeling that we just need to persuade one and, if it works, more will follow. Look at what extra competition has done for other markets.

I think this is true, so just imagine how tantalizing it was for the current bosses to "almost" have that one, and what sort of shenanigans they may have been tempted to use to get it.

The airport may be a flop or a major international hub in 20-30 years time, but the current bosses will be up at the great terminal in the sky by then and what they personally need is something that looks good on their cv's now and justifies their huge spending. Maybe the "china affair" has something to do with this?

 

[Jon Dempsey]

To climb to highest mountain you must first make small steps

Or to quote the Chinese proverb, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step!!






I'll get my coat!!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Although loosely relevant the football chat is probably better suited to the Random Stuff thread

 

[JENNYJET]

I read somewhere that Hainan and Capital airlines are the same family and Caissa are the parents! Is it likely that there could be fleet overstretched hence withdrawal of BHX services for this year pending additional aircraft for next year?

It could be as innocent as that!!

I have just learned of Beijing Capital announcing a new route to Melbourne using A330 from Shenyang commencing Sept 2016. This via Routes online.

I am almost certain BCA have fleet issues and have dropped BHX for another time.

 

[Brum X]

I suppose we will hear sometime soon what exactly happened here but BHX are staying quiet over this one for the time being.

 

[Ray Finkle]

They've also applied for 2x weekly Hangzhou-Bejing-Lisbon from December.

 

[Brum X]

I didn't really want to bring this old news up again but I wonder if we will ever find out what went wrong with this airline ??

It feels as if everybody has been told "Don't mention BCA" hush hush.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Hopefully they have moved on and are now working on something else. I've said before that if it takes another 2-3 years for something more substantial then I'm fine with that, the whole BCA set up just didn't sit right with me.

For now we've got some decent rumours rumbling away behind the scenes, hopefully, as we head into winter, there will be some significant announcements for 2017

 

[Butty]

Like Carson Yeung, time to forget about it and move on.

I am more interested now in developing BHX to capital cities, economic centres and long haul tourism out west and southwards.

Plus, how can we get the city to be brave and go get the Commonwealth Games.