LBA Masterplan - 2016 - 2030

[a300boy]

The landing distances are the biggest problem that needs to be to solved.
Emirates operate from Newcastle with a similar runway length and take of distances, but what they do have is longer landing distances in both directions.

 

[quik999]

Re the ILS, the issue is more to do with the touch down point on Runway 32,

Moving the touchdown would mean moving the Glide Path aerial. It's only possible to move it about 150m without substantial ground works. Additionally all the runway lighting would need moving, not to mention the DME equipment. together it would amount to a substantial cost. Would it be worth it? I think if it would, then it would have been done already.

 

[blotbuc1]

I recall that the threshold was moved to meet a CAA requirement to provide a runway end safety area and accommodate full approach lighting. An additional benefit put forward at the public inquiry was that noise would be reduced for residents on the approach because aircraft would be higher and reverse thrust would be applied further down the runway. A significant movement of the threshold could indeed result in the need for substantial ground works to resite equipment and maintain the safety area. The resiting of the lighting could possibly result in encroachment into the residential area off Scotland Lane requiring land/property acquisition. Would an increase in the glideslope to 3.2degrees maintain the noise benefits? Not a simple matter of moving equipment and markings, but a messy and expensive undertaking!

 

[oldendays]

quik. There is a private message for you.

 

[a300boy]

Yes it will be difficult and messy !
But how can Jet 2 and Monarch expand flights when in bad weather the new Boeing 737-800s they both have on order will not be capable of landing below Cat 1 minima as is the case for the bigger Boeing 757 already. Unless airlines intend to operate long haul flights with smaller aircraft the landing distances will be a problem in good or bad weather for most of the aircraft presently used for these operations. Landing at Leeds in a B727-200 was always a tricky thing to do during my Dan-Air days and I know most airlines have a captain only landing policy for this airport as a result.

 

[Aviador]

We often refer this necessary move of the ILS and associated equipment and lighting as "extensive groundworks", whilst this is true, the works have been done before to move the equipment to their current locations. So far as I am aware, the wiring underneath the runway is nearing the end of it's life and is in need of replacing? If this is still the case, surely it would be a perfect opportunity to carry out such work.

Something not to forget is that moving the threshold does mean building land up at the Horsforth end of the runway. With the potential for a new link road passing the location, it's another opportunity to build the land up and even construct a flyover with a "starter strip extension" similar to what Birmingham airport used until it opened it's new runway extension last year I believe (available for take off runs on runway 32 or adding stopping distance to runway 14).

 

[White Heather]

Re the ILS, the issue is more to do with the touch down point on Runway 32,

Moving the touchdown would mean moving the Glide Path aerial. It's only possible to move it about 150m without substantial ground works. Additionally all the runway lighting would need moving, not to mention the DME equipment. together it would amount to a substantial cost. Would it be worth it? I think if it would, then it would have been done already.

Yes, we are aware of all of that and we know it would be a substantial cost. But if the LBA Masterplan is talking about Navigational Changes enabling Long Haul off the runway without any extension, they must be planning something - and this debate is about what. As for whether it is worth it, I would think that those pax who find themselves in MAN or elsewhere at 1am after a 4 hour flight, and faced with another 2 hours waiting for a transfer coach, would view it as definitely worth it. LBA cannot continue to ignore the disruption to pax and aircraft caused by diverts, many of which are the result of the touch down point being too far up the runway and, just to make matters worse, on a downslope, with aircraft resultantly drifting down the slope. Clearly the 737 800 is capable of undertaking Cat 3 autolands as they do it regularly in Ryanair livery - but Jet2 usually don't and end up in MAN, and so do their 757s. Given they are changing their fleet so that the majority of aircraft are of that type, can LBA afford NOT to do something to make the runway more useable?

One has to ask the wisdom and reasoning behind moving the touch down point in the first place when the extension opened in 1984 - no doubt to pacify the anti airport lobby as it enables aircraft to be higher when passing over the Horsforth housing areas than they would be with the touch down point closer to the threshold.

 

[Aviador]

Airports such as Luton still operate with reduced threshold lengths so it's not something that cannot be done.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Its a very small point, but a300boy stated the captain lands at LBA.
On all flights I have made in to LBA the captain has said the first officer flying and certainly when we had a lady captain recently she made a big point of not flying the aircraft to give comfort to male passengers.
I have only been lucky enough once to land at LBA at the front of the aircraft before the new rules and it was the first officer landing and he only had breaking issues and was his first time at LBA and I think glad he had brown trousers on.
Not as eventful as landing at the old Hong Kong airport was lucky enough on a Cathy flight to be on the flight deck during landing, good to see what everyone having to eat in the apartments we passed. I did this time think we were going to have a bath, my foot was hard on the non existant break pedal.

 

[a300boy]

Yes you are right " tarn spotter " I was referring to my B727 days with Dan-Air and now Jet 2 have the rule but only on the B737-800 series which is of course the new fleet they are acquiring.

 

[a300boy]

I should add that Ryanair allow the autopilot to land at Leeds but they are on an Irish Aoc and registration as we were. Our A300-B4 manual would have allowed us to auto land at Leeds with a 10kt tailwind at 295,000 lbs max landing weight. As we were also Irish registered and not subject to Uk regulations.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Have to say Dan Air used to be one of my get out of jail airlines when I had a young family going to Spain in the 80's.
Used to get my Sunday Times on the sunday morning a ring round all the bucket shops to buy 5 tickets that day to malaga, often companies like Avro using Dan Air would sell 5 tickets T O D at stupid return prices.
Threw away the return tickets and bought 5 return flights in Spain as in those day only 7, 14 days etc travel periods.
Operating with some of the wonderful names from the past, Air 2000, Cal Air, Britannia Airways, British island Airways, Orion etc, anyone who would give me a seat was okay with me.
Fairly sure we were bumped once from gatwick from Dan Air to British island Airways going to Switzerland in the 70's when some sort of arrangement between the two companies.
These were the day nearly impossible to get a last minute flight from LBA to Malaga, probably made 100 flights in 25 years and not one from LBA until the start of this century.

 

[michael]

Re the ILS, the issue is more to do with the touch down point on Runway 32,

Moving the touchdown would mean moving the Glide Path aerial. It's only possible to move it about 150m without substantial ground works. Additionally all the runway lighting would need moving, not to mention the DME equipment. together it would amount to a substantial cost. Would it be worth it? I think if it would, then it would have been done already.

I'd be interested to know the difference in distance between the Horsforth end of the runway and the first 'in line' house compared to the eastern end of Manchester's original runway to the first 'in line' house - I seem to recall being parked next to a Manchester long stay car park and seeing aircraft coming in to land literally skimming the roof tops on their way in.

 

[a300boy]

I doubt that many people could tell the difference between the heights the aircraft would pass over the houses by such a small change to the threshold position.

 

[Aviador]

As reported in another thread LBA has released a progress update this week.

Final Leeds Bradford Airport Masterplan document to be published by the end of the year

Wednesday September 7th:

The final Leeds Bradford Airport Masterplan is now being drafted, after more than 100 responses to the airport’s consultation process were submitted. The draft of ‘Route to 2030,’ the Strategic Development Plan for the next 15 years at LBA, was released in March. Stakeholders were then invited to submit feedback to shape the final Masterplan document. John Parkin, Chief Executive at Leeds Bradford Airport, said: “I’d like to thank everyone who submitted feedback during our consultation. The future of LBA will very much help to shape the region’s growth and economy and so it was imperative we heard views from the general public and all interested stakeholders. “We are now working towards finalising our Masterplan, which we aim to publish by the end of this year.” The draft Masterplan sets out ways in which the airport will grow and develop over the next 15 years – to an airport carrying 7.1m passengers a year by 2030. This includes:

• Timely expansion of the terminal building
• Additional investment in terminal infrastructure
• Expansion of aircraft stands, boarding gates and new taxiways
• Upgraded airport entrance and commercial gateway development
• Development of a ‘Commercial Hub’ and hotel in close proximity to the terminal
• Rail connectivity linking Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate and York, including ‘Parkway’ station
• Upgraded road access to LBA  Public transport and car parking enhancements

PRESS RELEASE Issued: Wednesday 7th September 2016

In total, 103 responses to the draft publication were received. During the consultation, a public meeting was held and information stands were arranged across the Leeds City Region. John added: “We are now going to shape our final Masterplan document, taking into account the responses we have received. This will set out the ambitious plans we have for Leeds Bradford Airport, so that we can meet the needs of leisure and business customers wanting to access even more destinations with ease and convenience. “Leeds Bradford Airport currently offers flights to 75 direct destinations across 23 countries; alongside offering four hub services which connect to over 100 more. We are one of the fastest growing regional airports in the UK, with around 3.5m customers flying through Leeds Bradford Airport a year.” For more information on the draft Masterplan, visit http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-theairport/airport-masterplan

-ENDS –

For further information please contact: Kayley Worsley, PR & Public Affairs Manager – Leeds Bradford Airport Email: [email protected] Tel: 07710 075279 or 0113 391 3309.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

I wonder how many of the responses were negative to the proposed plans.
All the flyers. leaflets etc I have had through my letter box since the plan released have been encouraging me to oppose any future changes at the airport.

 

[Seasider]

Has there been any further developments on this or are we having to wait until the final Masterplan is published?

 

[Aviador]

Has there been any further developments on this or are we having to wait until the final Masterplan is published?

We're talking LBA so your guess is as good as anyones.

 

[White Heather]

We have to wait for the final masterplan which is due to be published by the end of 2016, and which will take into account the comments - and the numbers I saw seemed to suggest that the numbers who commented were not very large - always a good sign.

 

[Seasider]

We have to wait for the final masterplan which is due to be published by the end of 2016, and which will take into account the comments - and the numbers I saw seemed to suggest that the numbers who commented were not very large - always a good sign.

Maybe people don't think it is worth commenting on. Apologies for being cynical.